Book 2 – Page 31

[Drascus]

I think somebody ought to sit young Prince Tramennis down and explain to him as gently as possible that boys can't be queens. Not even a little bit.

Spoiler: show

Um, except for a very specialised definition of 'queen' which I doubt is used in Erfworld.

Yes, that was the joke.

[ftl]

I havent posted in a while.
Here's my prediction: dittomancer gets croaked, King Slately gets pissed at Trem and Tremmenis will stop caring for Jetstone. Slately loses it, disbands his son and gets croaked by the decrypted Dwagons, causing Jetstone to fall.

I hope not, that would be silly. Trem isn't an idiot, he shouldn't be putting himself in a position to lose a caster in a routine mop-up operation. He knows the composition of the enemy forces both in the city and in front of the bridge, he's probably a better Warlord than Ford. He should know better than to attack there if there's a chance he'll lose something that valuable. As I said, I think the worst that happens is that he loses some archery and perhaps one Warlord.

The place where he might get tripped up is fighting against Jack, foolamancy is nasty stuff. But until it gets to that battle, I expect smooth sailing for Tramennis.

[doran]

Also, my bias is obvious, which allows fair discussion. You know where I am coming from, and so engage with the things said. Biased people say true things now and then, just like stopped clocks sometimes get the time right.

You do have to be careful about Poe's law, though

As for me, I'm reserving my judgement for a while, a lot of people got really frustrated with Ansom winning all the time in Book 1.
Plus the overall title is Love is a Battlefield, and since Jillian (along with Cesaer/Bunny) is the only real romantic links, I'm not that suprised.
Jillian has also managed to give a reason for every other side to be pissed off at her in this episode alone.

Concerning Tremenis, though I admit his apparent fanboyism grated a little bit he's previously been shown to keep shifting his reactions to people, so he may something different 'in private'.

Finally, as a counter argument to Jillian's viewpoint always being right, I'd like to remind everyone of this viewpoint of her 'enemy' Slately.

[effataigus]

Indeed, is there love in Erfworld that doesn't involve Jillian?

(along with Cesaer/Bunny)

Oh yeah! Ok good. Nice that it's not exclusively a Jillian thing then.

[Kozbot]

I first started disliking Jillian when it was revealed Jack loved her, that to me crossed the line from having a female character in a classic love triangle, which I thought was incredibly well done, to giving Jillian the apparent special ability "Everyone likes/loves me" which may very well be one of her bonuses the way everyone reacts to her. No matter how it is made to be a significant percentage of the named characters like and or love her and only completely unlikable characters ever call her out on anything.

Really I'd like Jillian a lot more as a character if some likable character said "I don't like you, I think you're a self absorbed idiot and I shall be waiting for your selfishness or stupidity to screw me over". It doesn't have to become the major viewpoint of her but having just one likable named character tell Jillian that she sucks would do a lot to make her a more well rounded character.

One positive thing from the whole Jillian thing, it led me to like Ceasar more who I think has this pretty cool "Loyal servant doing the best he can getting screwed over by his lord" thing going, which if Jillian wasn't seemingly immune to consequences should lead to Don King being forced to admit Ceasar was right.

[ShieldOfAthena]

I first started disliking Jillian when it was revealed Jack loved her, that to me crossed the line from having a female character in a classic love triangle, which I thought was incredibly well done, to giving Jillian the apparent special ability "Everyone likes/loves me" which may very well be one of her bonuses the way everyone reacts to her. No matter how it is made to be a significant percentage of the named characters like and or love her and only completely unlikable characters ever call her out on anything.

Really I'd like Jillian a lot more as a character if some likable character said "I don't like you, I think you're a self absorbed idiot and I shall be waiting for your selfishness or stupidity to screw me over". It doesn't have to become the major viewpoint of her but having just one likable named character tell Jillian that she sucks would do a lot to make her a more well rounded character.

One positive thing from the whole Jillian thing, it led me to like Ceasar more who I think has this pretty cool "Loyal servant doing the best he can getting screwed over by his lord" thing going, which if Jillian wasn't seemingly immune to consequences should lead to Don King being forced to admit Ceasar was right.

Stanley doesn't like her, does that count?

[Ansan Gotti]

Stanley doesn't like her, does that count?

But Stanley is an unlikable idiot. So no, I don't think he counts under the previous poster's formulation.

[BCCroaker]

In terms of dislike, Parson has nothing against Jillian. However, as soon as Jillian finds out that the "Ultimate Warlord" doesn't actually fight, the reverse will probably not be the case.

[valce]

I thought Trammenis sounded funny

[IocanePowder]

Nope. Still don't like her. And I'm a bit underwhelmed by my impression that the author is going to try to drag everyone, kicking and screaming if necessary, into liking her.

He's certainly making sure all of the main characters like her!

I think it was the implied lesbian sex in book one that sold me.

Nah, I don't think this is a case of informed awesome. She's a foil to Jetstone. That's one of her roles. Jetstone's the traditional royalist side. The reason Tramennis has admiration for her is because he's not a traditional prince, like his brothers.

I'm kind of puzzled about which characters you do like if you don't like Jillian.

[michaelcoyote]

Spoiler: show

Um, except for a very specialised definition of 'queen' which I doubt is used in Erfworld.

What's to doubt? There's already been one "alternative" relationship in Erfworld.

Yes, that was the joke.

yep.

[Grimnir]

As a barbarian, Jillian is impulsive and unpredictable, free to roam and love anyone and do whatever catches her whim. Remember that thinkagram she sent Ansom? It was an important part of the story, that showed us readers Jillian's motivations; that she loved Ansom and hated Stanley, and how important it was for her character to be free.

The true extent of her barbarian nature did not become apparent until these last few updates, though, when we see how little she cares about other people, their rules, and their morality. It was a nice piece of work, Rob, that comic.

[DevilDan]

Cool, but how do you know this- that Tremmennis would croak Jillian in a second? Or that either of Don or Charlie would? All we have so far as actual evidence in the text is these characters' support/approval for/of Jillian.

Duncan has in fact expressed feelings about Jillian that are beyond mere Duty compulsion in the Text logs. Maggie has Duty to Stanley but I doubt she regards him the same way Duncan sees Jillian.

Tramennis's "enthusiasm" is more, I would wager, a product of his temperament more than a sign of any particular affection for Jillian. What he said about Jillian is the result of, among other things, his habit of making jokes, his unconventional nature, his "put a smile on everything" personality, and because it shocks his underling. I'll buy some admiration, but admiration tempered by the fact that he has serious reasons to mistrust her, she just ditched him and left Spacerock in danger, she seems to act irrationally or inexplicably.

Duncan has just been turned. I'd be willing to bet that his appreciation of Jillian is about as high as it's ever going to be. Plus, she seems like a capable leader, unlike the incompetent, irrational, and irascible Stanley.

[joosy]

I think somebody ought to sit young Prince Tramennis down and explain to him as gently as possible that boys can't be queens. Not even a little bit.

Well at least as long as his mother is still alive. Until then he's just a princess.

[build6]

Well, we know that Jillian is still atracted to Wanda. Like she pointed out, there was no need for the initial parley if she just wanted the croackmancer's head on a stick. She even offered the chance of ganking on Jetstone togheter.

so -

(a) she doesn't want Jetstone to win (particularly since only crap comes out of its king's mouth)
(b) she also gives advice that would if followed would not result in an emphatic jetstone victory?

anyways whether wanda makes it or not is gonna depend on how good she is at decrypting falling dwagons and Jack's ability at veiling her, whatever Tramennis does (it's been said that slately already has enough forces in-hex to strike Wanda and that his waiting to do so was his mistake...)

[Dr Pepper]

Indeed, is there love in Erfworld that doesn't involve Jillian? Maggie and Sizemore have a good "rapport." Unaroyal's queen seems keen on Don. Vurp "trusts" Parson. Maggie might have a crush on Parson... but I can't think of any romantic love connections that don't connect to Jillian.

Caesar and Bunny?

[imgran]

LOL@ the anti-Jillian hysteria. Just because she hasn't paid the piper yet doesn't mean she isn't going to guys.

I don't care that much for her either, but she's a main character getting main character screentime, if that's not your cup of tea there's plenty of other webcomics.

[multilis]

On Trem I agree, is his style to make *shocking* jokes from the first page where we met him, thus "half the queen", rather than "half the royal".

Trem saw the bigger picture, Jill was useful and in her unorthodox way was some wisdom such as minds of Charlie and Wanda that would be lost if they acted like stuffed up royals. So when someone suggests he act stuffed up, he gives them a little verbal kick.

He still respects his royal side but he can see the weaknesses. I think the Jill/Trem is respect rather than love.

[Fiendishrabbit]

It's my personal theory that as units in Erfworld level up they get smarter(mental stat increase?). A stabber is a drooling idiot wich only cares about stabbing, but that chief croackmancer is capable of orchestating a masterfull plot that will change the face of Erfworld.

Jillian being promoted to queen probably came with nice bonus to her mental stats wich allowed her to see things beyond "stab with sword, eat, sex, sleep, repeat". And again she's been under Don and Charlie's personal tutorage for a lot of turns.

Stanley clearly rolled pretty poorly on the mental stat increase. Well, he's not even a noble after all.

It might be the other way around.
Units with high mental stats are more likely to be promoted. Generally because they don't die on the way doing something incredibly stupid.
If cities have some sort of control over what kind of stats a popped unit has it's likely that they focus on Brawn rather than Brains for Stabbers while something like a Warlord (or something you think might become a warlord) generally gets a more generous amount of points devoted towards brains.
May I present Evidence number 1 through 5 of what happens to your warlords if you don't follow the "promote the dude with the best mental stats" line of thought.
Book 1, Page 27

Honestly. Jillians change isn't so much about Jillian being smarter or wiser. It's more of a personality-change (due to Natural thinkamancy.). She has different priorities now. Before, she was a barbarian warlord. It was about food, not dying and whacking things with a really big sword. Becoming Royalty (A queen) she's thinking more...royally. Real Politics. Same amount of brains, but with different priorities. Different morals.

Stanley on the other hand. He's a bad ass team leader, he has his brilliant occasions (The thinkamancer link resulting in Eyebooks and whatnots). Not Faction Leader material though. For one thing the whole Royal Natural thinkamancy isn't working for him and he doesn't have it naturally.
Dumb down Jillian (not much really. Just a bit), make her meaner and more vicious, cut away some of the charisma and the royal natural thinkamancy thing....voila Stanley. Stanley on an armored Dragon vs Jillian on a Megalogwiff is sort of like Evil Mirror image (and IMHO we WILL see that showdown in the future of Erfworld).

[MindyMaples]

Really I'd like Jillian a lot more as a character if some likable character said "I don't like you, I think you're a self absorbed idiot and I shall be waiting for your selfishness or stupidity to screw me over". It doesn't have to become the major viewpoint of her but having just one likable named character tell Jillian that she sucks would do a lot to make her a more well rounded character.

I'd guess Jaclyn didn't like Jillian a whole lot. And I'd say it was pretty obvious Sir Webinar didn't like her at all. Where are they now? They're croaked. That's where.