The Battle for Gobwin Bump: Book Two

by **BLANDCorporatio** » Sat May 08, 2010 11:20 am

Okey-dokey, first, a list of all unit stats, both for GB and ourselves, for easy planning reference.

Spoiler: show

Code: Select all: Gobwin Bump units Ground Infantry Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special ================================================================================================== Garrison Twoll 14 4 5 0.5 Gobwin 3 4 3 2 Field Twoll 15 5 5 2 Gowem 30 30 5 1 Ground Archers Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special ================================================================================================== Gobwin Archer 3 4 3 2 Ranged Flying Infantry Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special ================================================================================================== Wessew Dwagon 10 15 5 5 Gweat Dwagon 30 5 5 5 Ranged Fliers Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special ================================================================================================== Fire Dwagon 7 11 0 5 Ranged Commanders Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special ================================================================================================== Twevow 3 4 3 2 Lv2, Chief Warlord MCC Units Scouts Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special Side ============================================================================================================== Golmon Battle Hawk 1 1 1 5 Ranged Golmon Barbarians Bweeze 1 1 0 5 Ranged, Scout Weather Toffs Gyro Scope 1 1 0 5 Steam Gentlemen Spoiler 1 1 1 2 Scout Kingdom of Meh Viper APU 4 4 2 5 Ranged, Scout Kanite Legion Ground Infantry Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special Side ============================================================================================================== Demonolith 30 45 5 1 Nether-Erf Elephant 30 45 5 1 Kingdom of Nawnia Minotaur 15 20 5 1 Kingdom of Nawnia Mist 1 1 0 2 Weather Toffs Rolling Scorpion 10 15 5 3 Steam Gentlemen Axe Dwarf 5 4 1 2 Bugger'al Dwarf Champion 7 9 2 2 Bugger'al Mehian Spearman 4 4 4 2 Kingdom of Meh Nerb Ranger 10 12 3 2 Kingdom of Meh Dwagonknight 3 5 2 1 Dwacon Dwaconian 30 15 5 3 Dwacon Kanite Militant 2 2 2 2 Kanite Legion Ground Archers Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special Side ============================================================================================================== Golmon Knight 5 8 5 4 Ranged Golmon Barbarians Huwwicance 30 45 5 1 Ranged Weather Toffs Wion Hunter 5 8 5 2 Ranged Steam Gentlemen Twain 30 1 1 4 Ranged Steam Gentlemen Hammer Dwarf 4 3 1 2 Ranged Bugger'al Dwarven Siege Tank 25 30 5 1 Ranged (Siege) Bugger'al Mehian Crossbower 3 5 3 2 Ranged Kingdom of Meh Kanite Rocketman 6 4 4 2 Ranged Kanite Legion Flying Infantry Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special Side ============================================================================================================== Ranged Fliers Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special Side ============================================================================================================== Shower 3 3 0 5 Ranged Weather Toffs Steam Fly 30 1 1 5 Ranged Steam Gentlemen Copperhead ACU 10 15 5 5 Ranged Kanite Legion Commanders Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special Side ============================================================================================================== Prince Lokarat 4 5 1 4 Ranged, Lv5(3) Golmon Barbarians Peter 6 9 5 1 Lv3 Kingdom of Nawnia Edmund 6 9 5 1 Lv3 Kingdom of Nawnia Duke Kettwey 6 4 0 5 Ranged, Lv3(2) Weather Toffs General Dagnabbit 6 5 3 2 Lv2(2) Bugger'al Bob the Guy 5 8 5 2 Lv4 Kingdom of Meh Lord Dwakvir 3 5 2 1 Lv3 Dwacon Confessor Marcion Delacroix 6 9 5 2 Lv2(1) Kanite Legion Graf Zeppellin 5 8 5 2 Ranged, Lv3(3), Steam Gentlemen Chief Warlord

Look at it, if you notice errors, PM me.

List will be updated as we get more commanders/get to know of more commanders from GB. Croaked commanders will not be removed; fallen heroes must be remembered and so on.

I will repost the list every time we change page, again for easy access.

Tactical decisions soon.

Question- the Huwwicane is a move 1 unit. Can it do a hit and run, when moving on a road? That's a big part of the plan, I'd rather not leave our units hanging in that hex if we can avoid that.

As for the rest, seems ok, I'll give it more thought. I'm a bit wary of assassination as being the only option, and am wondering if there's some other way to minmax casualties that the Chief Warlord Carrot is blinding us from.

by **Twoy** » Sat May 08, 2010 11:37 am

Sihoiba wrote:Duke Kettwey will step aside from my suggested first Stack and let Lokarat lead the way instead.

I agree for the most part with Duke Kettwey's follow-on analysis; however, I am still a bit confused about some aspects of battle planning here in Erfworld.

I really don't want to seem argumentative, Duke Kettwey, but are you not guaranteed an xp if you join stack 1? I think the additional xp for our most experienced warlord is more valuable than a point of damage against a unit that probably will survive the battle. Or is it not possible for multiple warlords in a stack to gain xp from one engagement?

In my stack, I prefer to take the 11% risk that one of my Minotaurs will get croaked in order to ensure that my Ewephant is at full hits on defense when GK takes their turn.

Finally, the Twain could join Dagnabbit's stack to act as a buffer.

by **BLANDCorporatio** » Sat May 08, 2010 11:44 am

Twoy wrote:I really don't want to seem argumentative, Duke Kettwey, but are you not guaranteed an xp if you join stack 1? I think the additional xp for our most experienced warlord is more valuable than a point of damage against a unit that probably will survive the battle. Or is it not possible for multiple warlords in a stack to gain xp from one engagement?

It is possible. However, Duke Kettwey wants to lead a hit-and-run with a different stack.

I suggest this Duke-led stack be more meaty than just a Battle Hawk. Doing a hit and run may still result in one XP for him.

Twoy wrote:Finally, the Twain could join Dagnabbit's stack to act as a buffer.

So as to not be at full defense on the GB turn eh?

But yeah, minor tweaks like this are ok. In particular, Dagnabbit's stack seems to lack buffer units and may do with one.

by **Azgrut** » Sat May 08, 2010 11:51 am

Yet a small question that is still left unanswered and another question on top of that.

Dave, do commanders leading a ranged stack get exp from a hit and run assault?
And staying with range, does a hit and run attack reduce effectiveness of defending units?

Since an exp from a successful hit and run attack sounds like very easy exp to me.

.

~

"I would be honoured to fight next to Graf. We can do some smiggedy damage to those blasted units and kill their chief. I do think they can point a new chief though but it would be a blow in their face with a gauntlet that we take out their chief so fast."

He looks at the battle plan in front of him. "I do not really like it to "mount" one of these dwawven monsters but their stats speak for themselves. They will inflict massive damage, especially with my leadership bonus... Hmmm..." he ponders something.

"If we launch an attack on the chief warlord, it will croak. There is no doubt in that. Even if the titans hate us and we miss like donkeys we will croak him. I don't know if we will level on a hit and run attack but if we do not, I say we stay and recieve a blow. Their stack, without a chief warlord leading it will only do a total of 18 hits when having Titans blessing. Not merely enough to destroy a tank, though enough to target out me or a Golmon knight."

Lokarat spits to the ground. "Fortunatly, they will be an unled chaotic bunch by then. Unable to direct attacks. Thus they will auto attack the tank, and while doing that, fail in destroying anything. I say it's a plan."

"Knight! Stack up, we have some shooting to do this turn!"

by **BLANDCorporatio** » Sat May 08, 2010 11:53 am

Azgrut wrote:Since an exp from a successful hit and run attack sounds like very easy exp to me. .

It sure is.

And the answer now that I think about it is NO, based on the comic ("beat us by losin'"). More so even, I think LtDave already answered this but I forgot it.

by **Sihoiba** » Sat May 08, 2010 11:56 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:As for the rest, seems ok, I'll give it more thought. I'm a bit wary of assassination as being the only option, and am wondering if there's some other way to minmax casualties that the Chief Warlord Carrot is blinding us from.

"Well that Chief Warlord is giving every stacks C and H are x1.1 damage modifier from his bonus, which is why I rather think he should be taken out first. The reason my stack is so small is because we have so few ranged units, and I wanted to maximise Lokarats leadership bonus. We could take more damage and not strike him directly, but I think with those fire dragons able to hit any of our units this turn, I'd rather we took as few hits in combat as possible eh wot!"

by **Twoy** » Sat May 08, 2010 3:08 pm

I think we've given good advice to our chief warlord. Now it's up to each warlord to consent, and our chief warlord to select the final course of action. Shall we proceed, gentlemen?

by **Sihoiba** » Sat May 08, 2010 3:14 pm

Reverse calculations suggest that any Chief Warlord assassination stack lead by Lokarat needs a minimum attack of 86 to definitely kill him

by **LTDave** » Sun May 09, 2010 6:02 am

Two or Three Questions:

Q: Dave, do commanders leading a ranged stack get exp from a hit and run assault?
A: No, the opponent needs to have a chance to inflict hits in order to gain experience.

Q: And staying with range, does a hit and run attack reduce effectiveness of defending units?
A: No, they will fight at full strength in a subsequent battle.

Q: Does each commander in a stack gain experience in a victorious combat?
A: No. Only the highest ranked commander will *level*

by **The Black Hand** » Sun May 09, 2010 6:17 am

Delacroix hmmed, chewing upon his lower lip.

"Kettwey, your plan looks sound, but there's something that doesn't feel quite right about this situation," he said. "Perhaps you should take some of my Militants with you, to be on the safe side - they may not be the most potent of our infantry forces, but they might be a help if worse comes to worst."

by **Twoy** » Sun May 09, 2010 7:16 am

The list of rules is very short, but somehow I missed this one until just now.
At the end of the Alliance turn, all units on both sides that have partial hits are healed.

Since ranged attackers don't get xp, and multiple warlords in one stack can't get xp, I think we need to completely relook the plan.

Here's a slight modification to the recommendation. Note: All of these numbers are likely off by a point or two because I am not exactly sure who gets the chief warlord bonus.

Stack 1 attacks stack D for a non-ranged attack targetting the commandew with additional points going to the front of the stack.

Spoiler: show

Stack 2 attacks Stack H

Spoiler: show

Stack 3 attacks Stack C with a ranged attack

Spoiler: show

Stack 4 attacks Stack D

Spoiler: show

Stack 5 attacks Stack H

Spoiler: show

If Nether-Erf were here we could have the Steam Fly hit Stack C and let Nether-Erf finish off at least one of the Field Twolls in Stack D and maybe both of them.

by **BLANDCorporatio** » Sun May 09, 2010 2:32 pm

LtDave, the following plan needs answers to these questions- pending them, we can see how feasible it is.

1) Huwwicanes have move 1. So, Huwwicane attacks a stack in the adjacent hex, but that's on a road. Does the Huwwie have enough move left to return to the starting position?

2) Let's say we croak the Gowem in stack D (and we will). Does the next chunk of damage that Team Bruiser apply be multiplied by the new average defense or not?

3) Average defense is NOT rounded (either up or down), only the final result (the damage dealt) is, right?

=========

"This was all good advice, but I do believe it to be based on a shaky premise. Namely, that we must target the Chief Warlord".

"Look at the Gowem and 2 Twoll stack. 5 average defense, plus 2 defense from the terrain, makes fighting it akin to punching a cliff."

"However, the Commander stack has a mere 4.5 average defense, which makes attacking it more tractable. Why spoil our advantage and kill the Commander first?"

"Here is what I propose, for round one of the combat."

Team Spotter
1 Dwaconian
Graf Zeppellin

Team Bruiser
1 Elephant
1 Siege Tank
1 Huwwicane
5 Minotaurs
Prince Lokarat

Team Punching Bag A
1 Twain
2 Golmon Knights

Team Punching Bag B
1 Steam Fly
1 Golmon Knight

"All of our stacks will return to the original position after the combat is finished, however many rounds it takes."

"First, Team Spotter will attack the 8 Gobwin stack, remaining in the hex until combat is over. There is a chance for this to result in one XP for me, but that is not the issue." (Team Spotter does, before random number, 12 damage; the gobwin stack would do 13).

"Next, Team Bruiser will attack the Commander stack. There shall be NO TARGETED FIRE, simple combat instead. Team Bruiser will inflict, before the random number is applied, 66 Damage. It will result in the croaking of the Gowem, and if the Titans favour us, the entire Commander stack. Prince Lokarat will gain an XP, as the attack of the Commander stack, before the random number, is 21. Even if the Commander stack survives, it will be easier picking for round 2."

"Finally for round 1, Team Punching Bag A will attack the stack of Gowem-2Field Twolls. It will receive at most 23 damage from them."

"We should incur no casualties in round 1."

"So for round 2, we can begin by attacking any stack we wish. All remaining enemy stacks will deal half of retaliation damage. We will have the following resources remaining, which for now I will leave to the commanders to share among each other. There is a good chance for plenty of XPs to be gained."

pre-formed Stacks
Team Punching Bag B: use it to either allow re-attacking some squishier stack, or to reduce retaliation damage even more

Commanders:

Lord Dwakvir
Confessor Marcion Delacroix
Duke Kettwey
General Dagnabit
High King Peter
King Edmund

Troops:

1 Copperhead ACU (since it cannot stack with any significant amount of troops, should attack last, hit-and-run style)
10 Kanite Militants
5 Dwacon Knights
1 Dwaconian (at 30 HP, it's the last remaining true meat-shield in the roster; use it wisely)
2 Dwarf Champions
7 Axe Dwarfs
1 Battle Hawk

Total attack (for troops and commanders) is (simple attack sum mind, no command bonus applied, no defense divided etc) 147.

"We should start, if all commanders agree, with round 1 before deciding how to further allocate troops for round 2."

(Well, what?! It's a big-boop battle. There's 3 stacks of 'em outside the door! And 4 more hot on their tails!)

by **LTDave** » Sun May 09, 2010 7:09 pm

1) Huwwicanes have move 1. So, Huwwicane attacks a stack in the adjacent hex, but that's on a road. Does the Huwwie have enough move left to return to the starting position?
A: Yes.

2) Let's say we croak the Gowem in stack D (and we will). Does the next chunk of damage that Team Bruiser apply be multiplied by the new average defense or not?
A. No - the Average Defence is based on starting units. It is not altered until the next combat (that is, the next stack to attack).

3) Average defense is NOT rounded (either up or down), only the final result (the damage dealt) is, right?
A. Correct. In the spreadsheet it may appear as a whole number, but that is only because of excel showing 0 decimals.

Q: Has the Alliance considered crossing the river at another point to deny the Gobwins the bridge bonus?
A: I don't know.

by **kriss** » Sun May 09, 2010 10:10 pm

Don't rivers take ALL ground movement?

by **Azgrut** » Mon May 10, 2010 5:51 am

Another question to Dave.

Can defending stack direct hits to opponents the same way attacking stacks can?

If answer to this is yes, then all commanders are in much danger. An opponent stack inflicting a total of 16 hits after defence could, for instance, croak me in defence. Maybe the'll be completely destroyed because they redirected the damage (taking 4 times more hits) but then they do croak a level 5 commander.

So Dave? What about it?

by **LTDave** » Mon May 10, 2010 6:08 am

Q: Don't rivers take ALL ground movement?
A: Yes. It would take a turn to go around, but the defenders would no longer have the +2 Terrain Bonus.

Q: Can defending stack direct hits to opponents the same way attacking stacks can?
A: Yes. In general I'll try to cwoak units where I can, but tempting targets are tempting...

This rule was introduced to try and minimise the impact of soak units, like the 'ol Diwigible. Given the choice between cwoaking a lot of grunts or one high level commander, I'll choose the grunts. But given the choice between slightly damaging an auto-heal unit and cwoaking a high level commander, the choice is always going to be commander.

by **BLANDCorporatio** » Mon May 10, 2010 6:20 am

Pay no heed to the GM's siren call, we probably need to attack fast now, before those other stacks show up ...

... Or maybe? I'm open to suggestions and calculations about what can happen if we do not attack soon, but instead try to move around (it will be slower in some regards, but negating the defense bonus; somebody run scenarios for that).

In any case, I think targetting the enemy Commander is a bad idea. It's the Commander that, paradoxically, keeps the stack weak! And a 1.3 (lvl2+CW) bonus is not too large to worry about.

Targetting Lokarat- This is a problem.

Team Bruiser would receive a max of 24 damage from the Commandew stack, which if applied directly to Lokarat would be enough to croak. So some new order of attack is required-

Team Spotter goes for the Gobwins; Team PB A goes for the Commandew stack (and may need one more def-5 unit in there to ensure complete survival, btw)*, Team PB B goes for the Gowem stack (again, one more 5-Def unit would be handy)*, and NOW Team Bruiser goes for the Commandew stack. Which would deal a mere 12 Damage (max), insufficient to croak Lokarat.

*: there is a chance for both of these stacks to survive completely, but they may also get croaked unless the defense average is high enough. Hence the 5-Def units (or 4-Def units, we need to see what we can scrunge up, so that further assaults are not gimped while we do not take too many risks either). Ideas welcome.

EDIT: Wait, some Mathmancy for the Punching Bag stacks.

Spoiler: show

Bottom line, Punching Bag B can safely go after the Gowem stack, however Punching Bag A would need a little Defense increase to be assured complete survival against the Commandew stack.

There is another option, and that is Team Spotter attacking the Commandew stack. Max damage that Commandew stack can inflict to Spotter is 21 (so, Graf would be living a bit dangerously).

by **Azgrut** » Mon May 10, 2010 7:57 am

If I make a stack as the first battle plan suggested and take out the chief warlord with a ranged stack, the warlord would be croaked before he can inflict hits. The units will thus auto attack and inflict hits on steam tanks, inflicting not enough to actually croak stuff. Thus an attack like that would croak the chief warlord, granting exp and removing the possibility of him croaking lokarat.

Maybe though I should have given the guy some more hits. I did not really figured the impact of this rule...

.

by **BLANDCorporatio** » Mon May 10, 2010 8:56 am

Azgrut wrote:If I make a stack as the first battle plan suggested and take out the chief warlord with a ranged stack, the warlord would be croaked before he can inflict hits. The units will thus auto attack and inflict hits on steam tanks, inflicting not enough to actually croak stuff. Thus an attack like that would croak the chief warlord, granting exp and removing the possibility of him croaking lokarat.

Maybe though I should have given the guy some more hits. I did not really figured the impact of this rule... .

Well, we need to level up High King Peter and King Edward, obviously.

But until then, I'd like to also see options that do not involve croaking the Chief Warlord in a targeted attack. It's a waste of attack, and it weakens further attacks.

Plus, stack Punching Bag A, as described, will soak damage and reduce retaliation for a future strike by Lokarat in Team Bruiser.

by **Sihoiba** » Mon May 10, 2010 9:06 am

"Ah going around I'm rather ashamed I missed that, eh wot! How about this, if I lead the following around from the side in a hit and run attack:

CopperHead ACU
Golman Battle Hawk
Duke Kettwey
Attack 22 Hits 18 Av Defence 2 Ranged, Flying
I could deal 6-13 damage, (with a 18% chance of killing the Chief Warlord if I targeted him).

If I do that first, and we jolly well plan from there. If the Chief Warlord survives we organise our forces so we have a stack capable of hitting the Chief Warlord stack and cwoaking him lead by whoever could survive the retaliatory damage, and as many of his units, using our remaining forces to pound the other stacks. If he dies we focus on killing the Gobwins and doing as much damage as we can to the other two. Only his stack is capable of targetting one of us.

Alternatively I hit the Gobwin stack (9-18 damage) reducing killing 3-6 of them, taking 2-12 hits to the Copperhead and gaining 1xp, and leaving them easier fodder for later. Thoughts?"

----------

Lt_Dave is it possible for a ranged high move stack to choose whether to stay and take the hits or run after it's seen how much damage has been dealt?

The Battle for Gobwin Bump: Book Two

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