Book 2 – Text Updates 023

[Frogpop]

Even if the rest get one bonus doubling would prevent any stack becoming unlead if one warlord croaks.

I think this is mainly what he's going for.

[joosy]

They'd probably have GNUs as well, but GNUs are Not Units.

I'm a GNU. I'm a GNU!
The gnicest form of gnature in the zoo.

Yes, I'm a GNU! Spelt G-N-U.
I'm gnot a camel or a tankeroo.

Gnor am I in the least, like that dreadful hearty beast.

Oh gno gno gno, I'm a Gnu, cha-cha-cha
Gno gno gno, I'm a gnu!

============
Just a sample of one of the songs I save to entertain my traveling companions during long road trips.
That and all of Weird Al Yankovic's "Biggest Ball of Twine in Minnesota"
(what happened to Jimmy!? He jumped out of the car at milepost 280? I wonder why? ..)

[Xorbon]

I have seen it. Pretty good movie. Not as funny as I'd hoped, but enjoyable.

You're dead to me. D-E-D.

You missed an 'A'.

[build6]

Wow, so Ford will find no targets of oportunity. So sad.

He will find Tremenis.

I actually come on to the forum after reading the text update in order to say "awww... poor Ford, all his plans are for naught because Trammenis was too smart".

But then PsychChicken's post made me wonder... what if Ford gets lucky and kills Trammenis... and then Wanda gets out of her scrape, and decrypts Trammenis? I think it'd be interesting to see if his mind is as "converted" as Ossomer and Ansom's. I mean, neither of those two were the kind of "thinker" Trammenis is...

(who in Jetstone came up with the pegasaur relay idea?)

[Lord Kasavin]

This update was very well done. One of the best I've enjoyed in a while.

For starter's, it did an excellent job in explaining Tramennis's decision to attack the infantry when the real prize and threat was above the skies of Jetstone. Simply put, the infantry collumn was weak and Jetstone had forces that weren't going to be any help against the flyers anyways.

We also get a glimpse into how Jetstone became one of the most powerful sides in Erf. Their strategy is typically: outnumber, outlead, and out-ally. By putting Royalty on the frontlines, Jetstone always has multiple really high level units to serve as Chief Warlord. The CW then provides his bonus to a greater multitude of units than a side that might rely on more expensive (and thus fewer) heavies.

I am reminded of a few "rules" I learned playing strategy games.

One) Evenly matched forces results in Pyrrhic Victories at best.
Two) Linear improvements of force ratios results in exponentially better outcomes... i.e. there is a "critical point" at which an outnumbered foe will be decimiated with relatively few casualties.

Jetstone seems to designed to achieve Rule 2. However, as Parson demonstrated it can result in a lack of flexibility.

Of course, the Titans are on the side of the biggest batallions.

PS. "LFN" and "G-RAF" are not acronyms, but pheonetic "words." Say them outloud to get the reference.

[MonteCristo]

What are the semi-invisible cat things?

I don't think they're accounted for, but nobody else has mentioned it so I must be misallocating them.

LFN = elephant thing.

tankaroo - kangaroo

G-Raf = giraffe thing

clothgolems = cloth golem teddy bears


Are the sourmander the see through cat things? Is that like a gummy bear cat?

The teddy bears are called Battle Bears
the G-rafs, LFNs, Tankaroo's and the Battle bears are ALL cloth golems... just different kind of cloth golems, much like how there are different kinds of rock golems
and as mentioned before, the smei-visible cat thing is a Tchotchke, which is made of glass... apparently they come in atleast two breeds; cats and unicorns as seen thus far.

[mindsword]

We also get a glimpse into how Jetstone became one of the most powerful sides in Erf. Their strategy is typically: outnumber, outlead, and out-ally. By putting Royalty on the frontlines, Jetstone always has multiple really high level units to serve as Chief Warlord. The CW then provides his bonus to a greater multitude of units than a side that might rely on more expensive (and thus fewer) heavies.

I am reminded of a few "rules" I learned playing strategy games.

One) Evenly matched forces results in Pyrrhic Victories at best.
Two) Linear improvements of force ratios results in exponentially better outcomes... i.e. there is a "critical point" at which an outnumbered foe will be decimiated with relatively few casualties.

Jetstone seems to designed to achieve Rule 2. However, as Parson demonstrated it can result in a lack of flexibility.

I was thinking the same thing. in war games, I build heavies and overwhelm the enemy with my best generals leading the battles.

also, just a thought that popped up. How long do warlords live? Erworld seems to measure everything in turns, which is basically days. They aren't ever children. Do they ever die of old age? In Medieval: Total War, as long as your generals weren't directly related to the king, they would never die of old age. I could literally use El Cid 100 years after I turned him. And he would be one of my best generals for the past 70.
Sorry, lost where I was going for a sec. if they don't live forever (much more feasible) then when is the cutoff point? I'm interested in when Jetstone's crown gets passed along... I'd like to see Tramennis take the throne if only to give Parson a run for his money. Remember, it was Tramennis's idea to cheat like Parson is doing now.

[Dancing Cthulhu]

Oh Jolly good. Jolly good indeed. Trem does not disappoint - and we get to see what he thinks of Jillian, and it isn't all sunshine and lollypops. And I am reading it right? Is Trem saying he'll join in on the archery contest?

Oh, and I simply love Trem riding into battle in the pouch of a tankeroo

I don't know why, I never imagined Trem as a cardsharp (or shark or whatever) before (probably because I am god awful at poker). Loved seeing into his mind and a bit of his history. And some of Jetstone's operational preferences. Funny Oss was still infantry mad after Ansom led such a massive army to its doom.

Also that Jetstone is founded on beating up outmatched/outnumbered forces. Long suspected, sure, but I wonder how many small kingdoms Jetstone has gobbled up over the years? And I wonder whether it is a nature/nurture situation, that love of infantry battles? Also - Jillian having inspired some questions in Trem about the nature of the decrypted? I wonder how this will affect the battle ahead.

Anywho, alas poor Ford, at least you gave it a shot, but I am so glad Trem didn't do anything foolish, I want to see him in action and all triumphant.

also, just a thought that popped up. How long do warlords live? Erworld seems to measure everything in turns, which is basically days. They aren't ever children. Do they ever die of old age? In Medieval: Total War, as long as your generals weren't directly related to the king, they would never die of old age. I could literally use El Cid 100 years after I turned him. And he would be one of my best generals for the past 70.

It is an interesting question (good old El Cid to),we haven't see any evidence of age related death or even weariness it seems.

For starter's, it did an excellent job in explaining Tramennis's decision to attack the infantry when the real prize and threat was above the skies of Jetstone. Simply put, the infantry collumn was weak and Jetstone had forces that weren't going to be any help against the flyers anyways.

Indeed, I had my worries, mainly as I couldn't see a good enough reason for it to risk loosing valuable anti-air troops/casters. But this worked out right - Trem was smart, taking out the column while using only troops that aren't going to be vital to fighting Wanda anyway. I am quite looking forward to the battle.

I actually come on to the forum after reading the text update in order to say "awww... poor Ford, all his plans are for naught because Trammenis was too smart".

Well, it is like that. You can't always win, they can't always win, inevitably there has to be someone whose goals aren't achieved in a situation like this. It would have either been Ford or Trem, and for some reason it wouldn't feel right if a presumably better warlord got vital troops ganked like that. Good on Ford for having a go, he just didn't get lucky this turn but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

But then PsychChicken's post made me wonder... what if Ford gets lucky and kills Trammenis...

I'll be very, very, very sad.

Especially since I want to see him helping shoot down dwagons and being philosophical.

He will find Tremenis.

And Trem will smite him from the pouch of a giant, cuddly kangaroo.

Well done to Trem! Everything needed to shoot down dwagons is left behind. Lower-level Warlords in front - in the best case they'll get XP they need, in the worst case they croak but they're not the ones needed for the assault anyway.

About the only thing that could go wrong is Tramennis himself croaking - but I have enough confidence that Jetstone knows how to do routine mop-up operations like this without endangering their CW, even if the enemy tries to target him exclusively.

Looks good for Trem so far.

Agreed!

[Sigma]

So 2 warlords per 1 stack of heavies. i didn't think leadership bonus could combine like that. is there an upper limit to how many types of bonus's you put on a stack at once?

I'm inclined to think that leadership bonuses do stack, to some extent. If they don't, it seems to me there's little reason (beyond the "naturally higher" stats of Nobles and Royals) to have a stack made entirely of Warlords, as Ansom claims Ossomer's command stack was here. More evidence in favor of leadership bonus-stacking comes from Klog 10, which more or less directly states that the bonuses Sizemore and Wanda give to golems and Uncroaked (and by extension Decrypted) is a leadership bonus, and Summer Update 33, which has Ansom leading Wanda's stack explicitly to raise the attack of everything in that stack to 30 or more. Without leadership stacking, why risk Wanda by having her ride in the lead combat stack? Ansom's larger stack-, hex-, and side-wide leadership bonuses would override Wanda's.

Dear Sir or Madam, I do believe that you are trying too hard. May I be so bold as to suggest-

"Jetstone does not rock"?

Guilty as charged. One of the founding principles of the improv theater group I'm in is "don't go for the obvious joke. Trust us, it's been done to death."

[technojunkie]

I'm deliberating which of these would make a better (de)motivator/slogan, based on this page:
Jetstone: Not risking mission-critical units on side goals since not long enough ago.
-- or --
Gobwin Knob: Failing to put themselves in the mindset of their opponent ever since Parson stepped down.

Dear Sir or Madam, I do believe that you are trying too hard. May I be so bold as to suggest-

"Jetstone does not rock"?

Obvious or not, I like it -->

Thanks!

[zilfallon]

sigma, you said that leadership bonuses stack , but there is more to it than that:

Wanda and Ansom give bonuses to decrytped stacks, but those bonuses are DIFFERENT. Wanda gives artifact bonus and croakamancer bonus, Ansom gives leadership bonus. Sizemore provides dirtamancy bonus to his golems and so on.
Different types of bonuses stack, but i don't think that leadership bonuses stack.And links you gave were no proof to LEADERSHIP bonuses stacking with each other. I think the only reason to put 2 warlords in one stack is to make sure the stack has a bonus even if a warlord dies, winning the fight with minimum losses.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Guilty as charged. One of the founding principles of the improv theater group I'm in is "don't go for the obvious joke. Trust us, it's been done to death."

And it's also among the laws of improv that its success rate can never go above 100%.

[Angband]

Just wanted to say that I think the Tankeroo's face is probably the most evocative expression Xin's drawn so far. You were a good artist when you started working on Erfworld and you're still getting better. Beautifully done.

[DevilDan]

I actually come on to the forum after reading the text update in order to say "awww... poor Ford, all his plans are for naught because Trammenis was too smart".

But then PsychChicken's post made me wonder... what if Ford gets lucky and kills Trammenis... and then Wanda gets out of her scrape, and decrypts Trammenis? I think it'd be interesting to see if his mind is as "converted" as Ossomer and Ansom's. I mean, neither of those two were the kind of "thinker" Trammenis is...

I don't even know that hitting GK's ground troops is such a hot idea, even if Tramennis seems to be doing it in a smart way. That column is far less dangerous without Ansom. It's far more critical to concentrate everything on Wanda and the 'pliers. Any other target, save for Stanley himself, is of far less importance. Croaking Wanda could mean the end of all decrypted, for one, saving everyone a lot of work.

It all leads me to believe that Jill's suggestion that Tramennis hit GK's ground column was her way of helping Wanda.

[yay]

tankeroo is the best thing since bear calvary

also, GK has 14 heavies on the other side of the bridge vs. the 3 stacks of heavies (minus warlords would be about 18 units). if the mass of infantry can slow down Jetstones stacks long enough for either Ford or Cpt. Twenty (or both), Tramenis might be in for a rough turn. some bad luckamancy or a chink in his plot armor and he might even get croaked

[effataigus]

I don't even know that hitting GK's ground troops is such a hot idea, even if Tramennis seems to be doing it in a smart way. That column is far less dangerous without Ansom. It's far more critical to concentrate everything on Wanda and the 'pliers. Any other target, save for Stanley himself, is of far less importance. Croaking Wanda could mean the end of all decrypted, for one, saving everyone a lot of work.

Jillian's advice might have been self-motivated, but I still think the mop-up is the smart move. If they don't manage to kill Wanda then she can join this group, decrypt the Hagar fighters and the Twolls, and be a nuisance again. If Wanda uses that force to make the Hagar column bleed, then she can use the extra Hagar bodies to be more of a nuisance. Even if they do kill Wanda, there's no guarantee that the decrypted will die... they might have to fight the same units again several turns later while they are holed up in a city with better leadership and the dwagons the leadership rode in on. Before anyone says that that mop up fight would be trivial, recall that GK wiped out a force that was much stronger than anything Jetstone has on hand these days with less than GK has now back in book 1 (even assuming the air column gets wiped out).

Of course, if they do get Wanda and the decrypted do dust, then Jetstone's immediate worries are over. Also, they will have disproved a fundamental tenet of toolism and dusted every believer in toolism (we know about) other than Stanely.

Admittedly, it is a shame that Trem is risking himself, but I am convinced that he will be safe from anything except a combination of Ford's smart move and outrageous misfortune... umm, what Yay said!

[the_tick_rules]

I thought the GK force outmatched the jetstone forces on the ground? Was that previous assessment involving GK's air force or did haggar do more damage than it appeared to?

[DevilDan]

Was the previous assessment of GK's ground troops was based on a veiled mass of air units? And, yes, before the loss of Ansom's overlord bonus, Wanda's tool bonus, and the losses inflicted by Haggar.

[Anias]

Honestly, I don't see much of a chance of Trem getting croaked; Jetstone knows what it's doing, Trem knows what he's doing, and they've got a huge advantage, both in terms of bonuses and troops. Additionally, it'd seem a pity to have Jetstone lose all 3 princes, especially after the comments about "if/when you become king." Plus, it gets more monotonous if GK has multiple Jetstone princes - note that while Oss and Trem seem to make a good pair, as soon as GK got a new JS prince, they lost one as well. Besides, he's got enough development and complex enough relationships with other characters to make him useful in the future - too useful to lose this easily.

That being said, I'd say odds are good that things don't work out as neatly as he plans. Ford, Captain 20, and their troops are probably pretty tough - at least more so than expected - and they have nothing to lose. They're perfectly willing, even fanatical, hoping to die if it'll give Wanda a better chance of surviving. An opponent who's given up the idea of living through the battle, and who has a cause that he'd gladly die for, is far more dangerous than his forces would otherwise indicate; additionally, he has characteristics such as unpredictability that, we know, are so rare in Erfworld. These are the people who'll throw themselves onto the spears of Trem's stabbers in order to get close enough to take a swing at his head. Somehow, Trem's gonna lose from this battle, even though he'll wipe out the GK troops there, making his attack on Wanda weak enough to be foiled.

[Ansan Gotti]

Kinda bummed that Ford (probably) won't have a chance to enact his plan.

That said, I think the prior Text Update is still vital in giving us a clearer window into the mindset of the Decrypted. We're talking fanatics beyond most fanaticism!