Book 2 – Page 36

[atteSmythe]

Bogroll's body was burned by the extremely annoyed RCC forces, though I have to wonder why those who were incinerated when the volcano blew could be decrypted while Bogroll couldn't. Perhaps they scattered his body parts / ashes around enough that decryption was impossible . . .

That's how I took it. The important part, for me, isn't that Bogroll's body was burnt/destroyed. Rather, that an Action was taken to render it indecryptable.

[splintermute]

Bogroll's body was burned by the extremely annoyed RCC forces, though I have to wonder why those who were incinerated when the volcano blew could be decrypted while Bogroll couldn't. Perhaps they scattered his body parts / ashes around enough that decryption was impossible . . .

And yes, those decrypted who get croaked again turn to dust.

They might have been like the Pompeiians, choked to death by ash, but with bodies largely preserved.

Bogroll's ashes were probably scattered and unable to be located (that always leads me to the nagging question of why Misty wasn't decrypted), and I'm sure that certain mutilated bodies are non-uncroakable, but at what point do they become non-decryptable? Decryption seems able to surpass the limits of uncroaking.

We've never seen decryption used on living targets, and uncroaking would likely have no effect, but it would be awesome if decryption re-animated their stomach contents and let them burst out, Alien-style.

[joosy]

The death of Bogroll is final primarily because his passing is the harsh lesson that Parson must learn about the consequences of leading a battle. Having him come back in any fashion diminishes that important lesson and it is the main reason why Parson refuses to lead again for so long. The whole 'burning of his body' and the retconning of twoll's regenerative special was done to close all of the loopholes that the more fervent, foaming speculators could try to think of to bring him back.

[build6]

(that always leads me to the nagging question of why Misty wasn't decrypted)

I think when Parson wanted to bury Misty, people thought he was nuts, because her body would just vanish after the turn, so there was no point burying her body (I think it was Sizemore who did it?). In that case, there is a window of opportunity to decroak/decrypt any fallen unit, after which their body would've vanished and it wouldn't be possible. The reason Bogroll came up re: his body being destroyed, was that they were still in the right time to decrypt him if necessary, except that there was no body left to decrypt.

Speaking of which - much as I miss Bogroll, you'd have to wonder whether Parson would've found him unsettling if he was brought back with an undying devotion to Wanda?

[splintermute]

Speaking of which - much as I miss Bogroll, you'd have to wonder whether Parson would've found him unsettling if he was brought back with an undying devotion to Wanda?

That might not have been too bad - he was already extremely deferential to Wanda from their few encounters before his death, and he would still be extremely devoted to Parson. Other than the devotion to Wanda, the decrypted seem to retain their emotional connections, e.g. Ansom's and Princess Cruz's devotion to their families. As long as Parson never countermanded Wanda's orders when undead Bogroll was around, he would probably still seem like the same old Bogroll. Yes, the decrypted love Wanda, but it's not like they talk about her obsessively (unless they're asked).

[Sieggy]

Hey, I was just wondering . . . where did the Hagar forces go? Did they return to Jetstone with Tremennis and the rest of the troops? And if so, did they bring back their dead with them? Prince Sammy, at least? If so, hmmm . . . there may be a lot of decryptable units there already.

Which kind of raises the question of how Erfworlders treat their dead. Since the bodies vanish next turn, are there any kind of funerary practices / traditions like laying them out to mourn them before they fade away, or just figure 'meh, they'll be gone tomorrow, so let's just leave them there and go have a drink'? Prince Sammy's body seemed to be treated reverentially, but then, he was Royalty . . .

[build6]

That might not have been too bad - he was already extremely deferential to Wanda from their few encounters before his death, and he would still be extremely devoted to Parson. Other than the devotion to Wanda, the decrypted seem to retain their emotional connections, e.g. Ansom's and Princess Cruz's devotion to their families. As long as Parson never countermanded Wanda's orders when undead Bogroll was around, he would probably still seem like the same old Bogroll. Yes, the decrypted love Wanda, but it's not like they talk about her obsessively (unless they're asked).

hrm... but from what we've seen "into" the minds of the decrypted, Wanda is the centre of their universe.

Deference is one thing, but it's not like pre-pliers Wanda was treated rudely by everybody; when you're in a feudal organisation you're deferential to all high-ranking types.

Bogroll's a twoll that's basically/fundamentally nice (to everybody on his side anyway), hence easy to push around/made fun of by the other henchmen - I'm not sure deference to Wanda means all that much. When it comes to Bogroll, i do not doubt his loyalty to Parson - he took his new role/promotion real serious.

But if he came back as a decrypted... Parson's gonna be number 2. Do we really know if when push comes to shove Bogroll won't take Wanda's side, instead of Parson's? How do you look at an aide who you can't count on?

Which kind of raises the question of how Erfworlders treat their dead. Since the bodies vanish next turn, are there any kind of funerary practices / traditions like laying them out to mourn them before they fade away, or just figure 'meh, they'll be gone tomorrow, so let's just leave them there and go have a drink'? Prince Sammy's body seemed to be treated reverentially, but then, he was Royalty . . .

I think, from that bit with Misty, it's the "leave 'em, they'll vanish" option. Individually there might be relationships that would lead you to mourn any particular person (I mean, particular erfworlders would fall in love too, even though there's no meaning to procreation and apparently archons can be treated like high-priced assassin-hookers). But there wouldn't (shouldn't?) be the kind of generalised "respect for the dead" that, say, we would have? If you ran into a body, leaving aside all that "report to the police" etc. type of thing, as a mark of respect wouldn't you dig a grave for it, even if you don't know who/what? Like, say, we were back a couple hundred years and you were making your way "out west" to the frontier and you ran into a caravan that'd run into fatal misfortunes. I'd think there'd be no equivalent in erfworld.

[splintermute]

Like, say, we were back a couple hundred years and you were making your way "out west" to the frontier and you ran into a caravan that'd run into fatal misfortunes. I'd think there'd be no equivalent in erfworld.

I think the Erfworld equivalent is that if the caravan's bodies are still there, whatever killed them is still there and will probably kill you too.

[gazes_also]

Which kind of raises the question of how Erfworlders treat their dead. Since the bodies vanish next turn, are there any kind of funerary practices / traditions like laying them out to mourn them before they fade away, or just figure 'meh, they'll be gone tomorrow, so let's just leave them there and go have a drink'? Prince Sammy's body seemed to be treated reverentially, but then, he was Royalty . . .

Really interesting question. There's no blood or decomposition on Erfworld, so rituals of cleaning, laying out the dead or cadaver disposal never developed from necessity. It actually becomes a problem if you do move a body, as it won't depop, which is the most convenient way of disposing of them. If you start moving bodies you end up with your city littered with corpses that would otherwise be gone.

Significant figures such as rulers, CWLs, or princes may be removed from the battlefield so that they are preserved. For royals to whom lineage is important, having a mausoleum to hold the remains of their noble ancestors makes sense as possibly the only reason to hold on to a corpse. Remember Spacerock has a hall of statues of previous kings, why not a crypt to hold their remains. As for the rest, gone next turn.

If there is no window in which decryption must occur, this raises (literally) the possibility that if she could breach the tower of Spacerock (or any other royal capital) Wanda could decrypt the royal ancestors and turn them against the ruler. Imagine all those dead rulers whose statutes Stalely contemplated coming back to fight against him - that's creepy.

[elddonnemar]

Haven't posted in a while (ever?) but just wanted to give some feedback.

I'm not an artsy person, so the shift in artists for the comic didn't really mean much to me. I mean, it was fine- both before and after- but it wasn't really something I paid much attention to. I'm a wordy fellow, I guess?

This one caught me off guard, then, when I realized how good it was. The old style was.. interesting, but always a little dead to me, I think. Like drawing dolls. That's not bad- it was part of the theme of the comic, I felt. Playthings in a real world, or something. But Xin's page today did the total opposite, and I realize now that it has since she took over. The expressions she draws on the faces of the characters are priceless. The characters feel much, much more real in this rendering.

Bravo.

Thank you. Reading this made my day.

:lol:

I want panel nr. 5 as a wallpaper at work!!

Norden

Oh yeah.

Even better with a caption: "Come to the crazy side. Cookies have us."

Heeeee. This will be this month's wallpaper since I don't think I'll get the custom one done on time (again). I'll leave room for people to add their own caption.

[DevilDan]

Jill's use of the time warp strikes me as a minor violation of parley, at worst. And Jill was already far less of a slave to the obligations and conventions of nobility than other units.

No its a pretty dang major one. She lauched an extremely powerful spell, which rendered the GK units defenseless, during the parley. Its just about as bad as killing them all. Like in DnD, when a wizard casts his one spell and incapacitates all the enemies? Thats called winning the battle. Sure someone has to swing at the enemies some, but the battles effectively over.

If Parson spins this right he can make himself look blameless, especially compared to Jillian. He can either not accept the parely when there flying down; the Jetstone forces won't be able to really make out what the response is until there close. Or simply attack as soon as the enemy says "Well in that case we'll destroy you know". In the first case GK never accepted a parley, in the second Jetstone is clearly to blame for the lack of finding a peacable solution. Sure the royals probably won't tell the truth, but if there gonna lie it doesn't matter what Parson does.

Yes, it reversed the situation. But she didn't need to do it during a parley. Jill had no reason at all to do it during the parley. She called the parley because she wanted to talk to Wanda, not because it was part of a plan or strategy. So if it was done during parley, it's hardly much of a violation or betrayal; it is simply incidental. In fact, I would have used it as Wanda was flying into the castle area, splitting GK's forces over two hexes.

Bogroll's body was burned by the extremely annoyed RCC forces, though I have to wonder why those who were incinerated when the volcano blew could be decrypted while Bogroll couldn't. Perhaps they scattered his body parts / ashes around enough that decryption was impossible . . .

That's how I took it. The important part, for me, isn't that Bogroll's body was burnt/destroyed. Rather, that an Action was taken to render it indecryptable.

They may have acted out of rage; they also rendered his body un-decroakable--something they did know of at the time.

[gazes_also]

Yes, it reversed the situation. But she didn't need to do it during a parley. Jill had no reason at all to do it during the parley. She called the parley because she wanted to talk to Wanda, not because it was part of a plan or strategy. So if it was done during parley, it's hardly much of a violation or betrayal; it is simply incidental. In fact, I would have used it as Wanda was flying into the castle area, splitting GK's forces over two hexes.

It is probable that Timewarp had to be done at close range with the enemy forces in the same hex, and it took considerable preparation. To achieve that it was necessary to have Wanda's force in the airspace but stationary and not attacking, therefore, parley was essential.

[Lamech]

Jill's use of the time warp strikes me as a minor violation of parley, at worst. And Jill was already far less of a slave to the obligations and conventions of nobility than other units.

No its a pretty dang major one. She lauched an extremely powerful spell, which rendered the GK units defenseless, during the parley. Its just about as bad as killing them all. Like in DnD, when a wizard casts his one spell and incapacitates all the enemies? Thats called winning the battle. Sure someone has to swing at the enemies some, but the battles effectively over.

If Parson spins this right he can make himself look blameless, especially compared to Jillian. He can either not accept the parely when there flying down; the Jetstone forces won't be able to really make out what the response is until there close. Or simply attack as soon as the enemy says "Well in that case we'll destroy you know". In the first case GK never accepted a parley, in the second Jetstone is clearly to blame for the lack of finding a peacable solution. Sure the royals probably won't tell the truth, but if there gonna lie it doesn't matter what Parson does.

Yes, it reversed the situation. But she didn't need to do it during a parley. Jill had no reason at all to do it during the parley. She called the parley because she wanted to talk to Wanda, not because it was part of a plan or strategy. So if it was done during parley, it's hardly much of a violation or betrayal; it is simply incidental. In fact, I would have used it as Wanda was flying into the castle area, splitting GK's forces over two hexes.

First off had they split GK's forces they would have found it difficult to enter the city, and likely suffered many casulties doing so, losing important units like... archers! Or worse they would have left Wanda outside the city and then GK could have simply passed the corspes of all of GK's forces through the hex barrier. And GK's forces would be trapped outside the city. Oops.

Two the spell wasn't very fast to cast. And it was kind of obvious. And the caster apperently had to be sitting out in the open. (otherwise why not cast it inside?) Wanda the mighty master class croakamancer with shockamancy scrolls, maybe could have blasted the turnamancer into oblivion. Or perhaps the dwagons could have gotten to the garrison; they had foolamancy to cover their approach. Which would mean the dwagons could then wreck the garrison capturing the city. But no one knows since Jillian betrayed during the parley.

Finally, you can't say "Treachery wasn't essential to our plan so its okay the we betrayed you while parleying." Otherwise every side who ever attacks during a parely will say that, and a parely will essentially become meaningless. Besides if Jillian didn't want to betray during a parley she could have said "deals off time to fight". Of course Wanda probably would have immediatly captured or croaked her, but still.

[multilis]

Finally, you can't say "Treachery wasn't essential to our plan so its okay the we betrayed you while parleying." Otherwise every side who ever attacks during a parely will say that, and a parely will essentially become meaningless. Besides if Jillian didn't want to betray during a parley she could have said "deals off time to fight". Of course Wanda probably would have immediatly captured or croaked her, but still.

Not sure this counts as treachery. Jill *did* stand aside/leave the battle.

If it was so obvious then Wanda could have countered when she saw Jill acting right after parley.

IMO Jill was actually being nice rather than treacherous to Wanda, she gave her a way out to escape the surprise (in way that also profited Jill) rather than just use her ace right away and Jill didn't help slaughter Wanda.

There is no obligation under a parley to give away all your secrets.

[Lamech]

If it was so obvious then Wanda could have countered when she saw Jill acting right after parley.

A friendly/neutral caster casting a spell? Great/Who cares. A enemy caster casting a spell? Blast it.

Not sure this counts as treachery. Jill *did* stand aside/leave the battle.

No she attacked, and then retreated once it was better handled by someone else. Had she continued the attack she would have gotten a bunch of units killed for very little gain, if any because of decryption.

IMO Jill was actually being nice rather than treacherous to Wanda, she gave her a way out to escape the surprise (in way that also profited Jill) rather than just use her ace right away and Jill didn't help slaughter Wanda.

Lolwut? She says she'll order her caster into the magic kingdom and instead she attacks. Hmm... now is that not treacherous.

There is no obligation under a parley to give away all your secrets.

There is one to NOT attack.

[gazes_also]

If it was so obvious then Wanda could have countered when she saw Jill acting right after parley.

A friendly/neutral caster casting a spell? Great/Who cares. A enemy caster casting a spell? Blast it.

Not sure this counts as treachery. Jill *did* stand aside/leave the battle.

No she attacked, and then retreated once it was better handled by someone else. Had she continued the attack she would have gotten a bunch of units killed for very little gain, if any because of decryption.

IMO Jill was actually being nice rather than treacherous to Wanda, she gave her a way out to escape the surprise (in way that also profited Jill) rather than just use her ace right away and Jill didn't help slaughter Wanda.

Lolwut? She says she'll order her caster into the magic kingdom and instead she attacks. Hmm... now is that not treacherous.

There is no obligation under a parley to give away all your secrets.

There is one to NOT attack.

In Jillian's defense, she gave Wanda a chance to turn to her side and warned her that there was a whole lot of trouble waiting for her if she didn't. Once the offer was rejected she lied and sprang the trap.

[the_tick_rules]

Yeah, if only those two weren't so... how would one describe them anyway?

[DevilDan]

It is probable that Timewarp had to be done at close range with the enemy forces in the same hex, and it took considerable preparation. To achieve that it was necessary to have Wanda's force in the airspace but stationary and not attacking, therefore, parley was essential.

I'm sorry to be so direct, but is "probable" the same as "possible but thoroughly lacking in evidence?"

First off had they split GK's forces they would have found it difficult to enter the city, and likely suffered many casulties doing so, losing important units like... archers! Or worse they would have left Wanda outside the city and then GK could have simply passed the corspes of all of GK's forces through the hex barrier. And GK's forces would be trapped outside the city. Oops.

That may have been a possibility. Obviously we don't know all the limitations of the spell. But you are making one unfounded assumption, that Wanda entered Spacerock from the same exact hex from that ground troops would have to cross. On the other hand, I really have a hard time believing that splitting GK's forces--even if it left Wanda outside the city--wouldn't be at least potentially advantageous.

Two the spell wasn't very fast to cast. And it was kind of obvious. And the caster apperently had to be sitting out in the open. (otherwise why not cast it inside?) Wanda the mighty master class croakamancer with shockamancy scrolls, maybe could have blasted the turnamancer into oblivion. Or perhaps the dwagons could have gotten to the garrison; they had foolamancy to cover their approach. Which would mean the dwagons could then wreck the garrison capturing the city. But no one knows since Jillian betrayed during the parley.

That's assuming that any Erf units needed to even be in the hex or "at close range." Given the "range," if you will, of the Kingworld spell, I'm not sure I buy the need for the immediate presence of enemy troops. It seems to me that the basic assumption that a parley was needed to either distract Wanda or buy time. That seems improbable. Why not just sock Vanna away in the dungeon, for example? That would surely have bought her enough time. And if it even took so long that it would have roused Wanda's suspicions, why not at least put Wanda inside the tower, as opposed to the relatively visible and exposed parapet?

Finally, you can't say "Treachery wasn't essential to our plan so its okay the we betrayed you while parleying." Otherwise every side who ever attacks during a parely will say that, and a parely will essentially become meaningless. Besides if Jillian didn't want to betray during a parley she could have said "deals off time to fight". Of course Wanda probably would have immediatly captured or croaked her, but still.

Actually, I'll even say that the parley was over and what was broken was a truce. After all, they had already ended negotiations...

[splintermute]

It is probable that Timewarp had to be done at close range with the enemy forces in the same hex, and it took considerable preparation. To achieve that it was necessary to have Wanda's force in the airspace but stationary and not attacking, therefore, parley was essential.

I'm sorry to be so direct, but is "probable" the same as "possible but thoroughly lacking in evidence?"

Two the spell wasn't very fast to cast. And it was kind of obvious. And the caster apperently had to be sitting out in the open. (otherwise why not cast it inside?) Wanda the mighty master class croakamancer with shockamancy scrolls, maybe could have blasted the turnamancer into oblivion. Or perhaps the dwagons could have gotten to the garrison; they had foolamancy to cover their approach. Which would mean the dwagons could then wreck the garrison capturing the city. But no one knows since Jillian betrayed during the parley.

That's assuming that any Erf units needed to even be in the hex or "at close range." Given the "range," if you will, of the Kingworld spell, I'm not sure I buy the need for the immediate presence of enemy troops. It seems to me that the basic assumption that a parley was needed to either distract Wanda or buy time. That seems improbable. Why not just sock Vanna away in the dungeon, for example? That would surely have bought her enough time. And if it even took so long that it would have roused Wanda's suspicions, why not at least put Wanda inside the tower, as opposed to the relatively visible and exposed parapet?

It's "definite" that some GK units had to be in the same hex as Vanna - that's one of the prerequisites for off turn, non-thinkamancy/lookamancy spellcasting, unless you're going to assert that Kingworld wasn't a "spell".

Everything else - i.e. casting time; range (whether Vanna needed to cast from the tower or could have done it from the dungeon); requisite power (2-casters? 3? maybe it had to be cast from the tower because the tower gives casters a bonus); when it could be cast (could it be used to split forces, or did Vanna have to wait until all the GK units had stopped moving?) - is, admittedly, speculation.

[KiltedNinja]

With all this talk of food and fights, I cannot believe that no-one else has thought of our dear old favourite...

Key Lime Pie + Tramennis' face = Win