Summer Updates - 003

[Welf von Ehrwald]

This entire discussion began with the suggestion that direct Titanic intervention was involved. I responded by pointing out that if Titanic intervention had been involved, we would have seen some evidence of it. I contend that we have not. I would like to see some supporting evidence for the suggestions that started this discussion, not this kind of misdirection.

There were suddenly banners with a crest. Stanley didn't called for them, but somebody (or something) must have. I believe it were the titans, giving Stanley credit for "his" victory.

[Vare]

And I cannot waaaaiiiiiit for a certain barbarian to re-meet her now decrypted once-paramour. But that might be the sadist in me.

This. This so bad.

Jillian had the whole "Who do i choose?" thing. Then when she does finally choose one they get killed and raised as her ex's(?) pet.

Oh thats going to be fun~

[Occasional Sage]

We're in a parody universe, where Magic is alive and well. We've got a Summoned random element who is out to take over the world in order to end war, and incidentally for the fun of strategy. Oh, and we've also go the ArkenTools, who only attune to certain people. And you people want PROOF-POSITIVE of Titanic Intervention? It's already THERE!

I'm gonna stop before I start a religious rant.

See Steve's sig line. It applies here, I think.

[Rykka]

And I cannot waaaaiiiiiit for a certain barbarian to re-meet her now decrypted once-paramour. But that might be the sadist in me.

This. This so bad.

Jillian had the whole "Who do i choose?" thing. Then when she does finally choose one they get killed and raised as her ex's(?) pet.

Oh thats going to be fun~

Oh yes, and that is what makes it so terribly delicious. Irony of the most perfect sort.

[Anton Gaist]

And I cannot waaaaiiiiiit for a certain barbarian to re-meet her now decrypted once-paramour. But that might be the sadist in me.

This. This so bad.

Jillian had the whole "Who do i choose?" thing. Then when she does finally choose one they get killed and raised as her ex's(?) pet.

Oh thats going to be fun~

Oh yes, and that is what makes it so terribly delicious. Irony of the most perfect sort.

Or she could be croaked, Wanda decrypts her and they both live happily ever after.

[kin]

Depending on how this change of pace for Stanley goes, I'm thinking we are going to see a mighty, unified force among Stanley and team - though possibly with the exception of Parson and Sizemore (Since the Grand Abby told Sizemore to follow HIM).

Honestly? I think everyone on Team Stanley will defer to Parson. Their duty requires it - they all KNOW he'll make better choices than Stanley.

I think what we'll see here is Team Stanley working smoothly despite Stanley, with the Tool as nothing but a figurehead / powerful attack unit and occasional comedic monkey wrench.

The reasoning is that Parson may not want to be running a worldwide campaign, whereas it seems everyone else would be pro-that, since it seems to be the prevailing thing to do in a world of constant war. (See the hippiemancer speculation and the last page of book 1.)

[Hatu]

Conscious effort to earn loyalty = good

Sudden sprouting of Soviet motif = bad.

I think the evocation of Stalinseque cult-of-personality iconography works to 1)make Stanley seem more ominous and menacing and 2)convey the notion that he is embarking on a mission to bring a new order to Erfworld (whether it wants one or not).

I'm curious as to whether that's supposed to be Stalinist iconography rather than Leninist; the difference in the metaphors would be significant. Stanley's reaction to the new icons implies a certain level of genuine idealism. Contrast that with Wanda's self-serving pragmatism shown at the end of Book 1, and I think Lenin might be nearer the mark.

More generally, Stanley's previous disdain for the trappings of royalty is an interesting surprise. I hope that tidbit is followed up on.

-H

[BarGamer]

@OccasionalSage: My clever rebuttal! XDDD
"Is this a real flamewar, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking at each other? Too fine a distinction?"

[Anton Gaist]

Stanley the Tool of the Titans nosed his dwagon over, and dropped into a dramatic dive.

I really want to read this as, "Stanley the Tool of the Titans nosed his dwagon over, and dwopped into a dwamatic dive."

Hilarious as that would be, he's not Elmer J. Fudd.

[osmium]

I'm curious as to whether that's supposed to be Stalinist iconography rather than Leninist; the difference in the metaphors would be significant. Stanley's reaction to the new icons implies a certain level of genuine idealism. Contrast that with Wanda's self-serving pragmatism shown at the end of Book 1, and I think Lenin might be nearer the mark.

More generally, Stanley's previous disdain for the trappings of royalty is an interesting surprise. I hope that tidbit is followed up on.

-H

Perhaps I'm not as well versed in Russian communist leaders as I should be. But was there really much philosophical difference between Lenin and Stalin. I mean in so far as how far they were willing to go to implement their distopias clearly Stalin wins. But otherwise they're both very much command and control style "dictators" with the supposed goal of implementing a sort of enforced socialism.

which to me brings up an interesting topic, namely that the whole erf-world system seems to be very command and control to begin with. Decisions appear to always be made by the single head of state. Sure individual sides could *decide* to implement some sort of congress or cabinet of advisers ontop of the dictator system... but it seems like there aren't really any ways in system to long term prevent the rise of command and control... as the best I can come up with is a ruler whose ideals are somehow more democratic, and hence subordinates would be doing their duty to his ideals by assassinating him if he takes the reigns himself... but even that is only speculation, and there doesn't appear to be a way to force the next ruler to live under a similar system... Which is interesting to me, that the world is not only turn based, and hence I feel provides more time to think between actions, and hence makes a single ruler less inefficient than in real time... but also is sort of natively "coded" to create dictatorial regimes.

-O

[SteveMB]

I think the evocation of Stalinseque cult-of-personality iconography works to 1)make Stanley seem more ominous and menacing and 2)convey the notion that he is embarking on a mission to bring a new order to Erfworld (whether it wants one or not).

I'm curious as to whether that's supposed to be Stalinist iconography rather than Leninist; the difference in the metaphors would be significant. Stanley's reaction to the new icons implies a certain level of genuine idealism. Contrast that with Wanda's self-serving pragmatism shown at the end of Book 1, and I think Lenin might be nearer the mark.

It was the first descriptor that came to mind of the general "reminiscent of totalitarian cult-of-personality iconography" concept. It works pretty well, IMO, on several levels -- ominous, but with an overtone of comical egotism.

More generally, Stanley's previous disdain for the trappings of royalty is an interesting surprise. I hope that tidbit is followed up on.

I recall that some people noted that Stanley's breakfast (in the scene where the first Stupid Meal popped) was a workingman's bacon and eggs, not some fancy repast fit for a king (or overlord). Of course, it goes further than just disdain for trappings. Recall Stanley's rather bitter comments about nobility's air of entitlement when he ranted at Parson for calling his side "the bad guys" ("Ansom and people like him like to put on airs. Nobility. Like they're not ruling by violence and fear. Psheh.").

[Bakin]

Am I the only one who's noticed?
Stanley = Stalin <-- it's almost an anagram!
Also, Stalin was well-known for purging members on his own staff, just on suspicion
So Parson: Beware of being too succesful, the Tool will think you're out to get him

There are numerous other points of similarity, look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin
One particulat item of note: Both Stalin and Tool are not exactly big dudes; Stalin was 5'4" (160cm)

[moose o death]

well that's hardly fair, parson is huge. stanley didn't appear height disadvantaged against regular plaid tribe troops. how did his height compare to manpower and the other uncroaked warlords?

i'm kinda wondering where the thursday update went. i'm looking forward to the tools full reaction to the situation, but mostly what will happen in the 2nd turn. things move pretty fast it seems.

[Matty]

Depending on how this change of pace for Stanley goes, I'm thinking we are going to see a mighty, unified force among Stanley and team - though possibly with the exception of Parson and Sizemore (Since the Grand Abby told Sizemore to follow HIM).

Honestly? I think everyone on Team Stanley will defer to Parson. Their duty requires it - they all KNOW he'll make better choices than Stanley.

I think what we'll see here is Team Stanley working smoothly despite Stanley, with the Tool as nothing but a figurehead / powerful attack unit and occasional comedic monkey wrench.

The reasoning is that Parson may not want to be running a worldwide campaign, whereas it seems everyone else would be pro-that, since it seems to be the prevailing thing to do in a world of constant war. (See the hippiemancer speculation and the last page of book 1.)

I've been wondering, could the way in which Parson brings peace to Erfworld be through conquering the whole world? It would seem logical that if he controlled all the sides then that would necessarily lead to peace.

[Cmdr I. Heartly Noah]

Stalin.... Stan li?

Hey, Moose, Stanley doesn't look short compared to gobwins... but he does seem short compared to Wanda.

[Ragn Charran]

He also seemed especially sensitive to a height crack back when Parson was first summoned. A reasonable* person who wasn't already short shouldn't take a height joke from a giant seriously.

*Yes I know we're talking about Stanley!

[Rekov]

I don't get it. What is the building behind (above) the left tower? It looks like the front wall is missing. Is the ground supposed to slope up to the building's roof on the outside of the wall? How does this make sense at all?

[Cmdr I. Heartly Noah]

Rekov, that's not a building, that's just the outer walls. For whatever reason, the gate area is like this:

__------__
--I------I
-[ ]----[ ]

granted, the outer wall on the left looks much higher than the gate wall or the outer wall on the right.

also, what is the free-standing wall behind the gate area (top right corner of the picture)? The garrison walls already? A wall around the lake of lava? A simple (tall) building?

[Lothmar]

Huh, Guess I was the only person thinking of Kim Jong Il when I saw the banners... But hey, that's nother short guy with a similiar banner and similiar views. XD

[moose o death]

Stalin.... Stan li?

Hey, Moose, Stanley doesn't look short compared to gobwins... but he does seem short compared to Wanda.

wanda is not the plaid tribe. if we assume plaid refers to a scottish kind of direction they would most likely be highland body types short and stocky. so stanley is probably a normal height for his tribe. wanda is not plaid.

also i don't think we've seen stanley in a while, so his proportions against parson may have improved with the artistic rescaling of erfworlders.