Book 2 – Page 39

[Nihila]

Perhaps Charlie will be like Cassandra from Greek mythology here, predicting the future but no one will believe him.

Yes, that would deal a blow to the GK enemies, but Charlie could become a rallying point for anti-Toolists.

OTOH, he just screwed over Jillian, after screwing over Sammy, which was after screwing over Jetstone and Transylvito in Book One. So, maybe Parson will just have to deal with Gobwin Insurrection: Take Two (OR: How to really get pwned by an Earthling).

[warriortribble]

In a related note, I wonder how Charlie knows that Jack has feelings for Jillian.

[MonteCristo]

Ugh. I hope that Charlie's just frightening Jill-Sue. Mainly because if he is eavesdropping on Parson's Thinkagram, I'll expect an explanation for why he doesn't eavesdrop on every Thinkagram on Erfworld.

Easy enough...
Charlie is able to handle unlimited thinkagrams per turn, but this does not mean he is able to handle more than one thinkagram at a time. The time he spends listening to other sides is time he can't spend dealing with other calls, directing orders to his archons or eavesdropping on other conversations.

Furthermore, he may have to actually KNOW there is a conversation going on. He is able to eavesdrop on Parson because he knew that there would be a very high chance that their would be communications going on between GK and their forces in the field; as such he knew that all he had to do was tap Maggie's mind and wait for her to make a call. Essentially Listening to othersides would require him to keep searching each and ever thinkamancer in the known world and hoping that their is a communication about to happen that will actually be meaningful to him.

Yeah, looks like Charlie really can eavesdrop on thinkagrams, people who guessed that way were probably right. How else would he know what GK is up to? Sadface. Makes sense, given his other powers, though I wish it were revealed in some other way rather than "GK's about to do something epic, lets point out something new Charlie can do that will stop it!" Well, I suppose it hasn't happened yet, so I'll wait and see how it plays out.

Frankly, i think the whole hacking the eyebooks thing was good enough to show off the possibility of hacking thinkagrams.

Given Charlie's attitude, I don't think Charlie's newly-revealed ability to eavesdrop on Thinkagrams will stop what Parson's about to do. He seems convinced that Spacerock is going down, and apparently he feels that warning Trammenis won't change things. So it'll be interesting to see what happens here, and whether Charlie's eavesdropping will be revealed to his enemies/allies.

Indeed... Charlie appears to be clearly agitated and that is not how you feel when you have an ingenius counter-plan to the enemy's own ingenious plan... He may be able to tell Tremennis what the plan is but he may not have a solution for him. Trem may either figure it out on his own, hope Jillian saves him, or run for the hills

frankly i really like the set up... on the one hand there is enough information to tell us that Parson's plan can work, yet also enough to tell us that it won't... it makes it really hard to guess who is gonna come out on top in this fight

[Ansan Gotti]

In a related note, I wonder how Charlie knows that Jack has feelings for Jillian.

He doesn't, he's referring to Wanda.

[JohnATallon]

Keeping in mind that the marbit rotation for General Mills has phased out some of the marbits involved in this comic, and that Charlie cycled through the marbits in non-chronological order, the marbit symbols themselves have to be related to what Charlie was intending to convey. Blue diamonds and yellow stars have all been phased out of the Lucky Charms marbit rotation, and they are the first two marbits Charlie speaks to Jillian through. The hourglass marbit, marketed as having magical power over the flow of time, is used when Charlie confirms that the only reason Jillian called was to inquire about Charlie's intentions toward Anson, and as soon as that part of the conversation is over Charlie switches to the yellow moon (another obsoleted marbit). He uses the heart symbol when he speaks of love, which carries obvious symbolism. Less obvious is that the heart is the only marbit to have been part of Lucky Charms for the entire run of the product; it's a constant.

Charlie then adopts the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe (obvious luck symbols, and both current marbits in Lucky Charms) when talking about the turn in the fortunes of war. He adopts the balloon when he talks of flying back (another current marbit), uses the pot of gold symbol when he dismisses Jillian's importance (a current marbit, and an obvious symbol of what Charlie believes is important), and finally adopts the rainbow marbit when speaking with Tramennis (appropriate because the rainbow is both a current marbit and is known as a symbol of a promise made).

The general theme of marbits is also probably important. If we go back to the first book of Erfworld, back in the Summoning Scene is the requirement that the Perfect Warlord (Parson) "eat marbits for breakfast." Also worth consideration is that Marbits are one of the Jetstone natural allies. In light of both considerations, and of the fact that Parson is chief warlord again, Charlie appearing as a collection of marbits to both Jillian and Tramennis and spouting predictions of doom and gloom is laden with real meaning.

Remember, too, that the Stupid Meal which held the final part to Parson's sword "Ruthlessness" was a bowl of Luckymancy Charms.

I'm not surprised Charlie isn't happy with Jillian. She broke her contract with him, and didn't even bother to call him to apologize or explain. Charlie lives by contracts. Breaking one isn't a light thing at all, and breaking contract to such a large degree (not participating in the major part of the combat, attempting negotiations with an enemy who is a major threat all by herself, and not contacting him to amend the contract prior to opening negotiations, and not completing the objective of croaking Wanda) was probably terribly frustrating for Charlie.

[Ansan Gotti]

I just have to say, I love the marbit post, JohnATallon! Hope you post more.

[Redstone]

So before anyone starts overanalyzing the Lucky Charms shapes Charlie appeared as, it should be noted that Parson (the supposed narrator/viewpoint of the strip) isn't present for this scene where Charlie's form is revealed- the first time Parson contacted him it was over some kind of speaker or voice filter, so he wouldn't have seen the way in which Charlie manifests himself. So the question, then, is how does all of this background "real world"/coma/Saline IV stuff factor into the comic's reality, given that such a reference to Parson's subconscious is present before he witnesses it?

Actually, I think I skipped right to the overanalyzing, but then again what else are fan forums for?

[gameboy1234]

Wow, great update. Charlie seems really pissed. He dumped on Jillian before he had even spoken to Jetstone. He may yet need to go crawling back to Jillian as the only side that will even talk to him. Think: Charlie was known to be involved at Spacerock--Hagar will confirm it, they lost a prince there because of Charlie. Now Spacerock is going to get worked over. Charlie will at least partially get blamed.

My guess: Charlie can eavesdrop, at least partially, and will tell Tramennis what is about to happen. Tramennis will be skeptical, and Slately will be adamant that Charlie is not to be trusted at all. In fact, Charlie may be get blamed because he knew about the plan. Jetstone will just assume he's trying to betray Gobwin Knob.

The outcome? Well Wanda can't die, but I don't think Tramennis will either. Slately has to live because Jetstone has no heir. Well, Slately has to live this turn, at least. Later, he can croak. But I don't know how Tramennis will live. Running away with Slately in tow sounds the most likely. I wonder if surrender or terms will be acceptable? Parson might take them rather than attempt his desperate plan. "Fated" or not Parson believes it is risky, and would probably take any sure thing rather than do something that might fail.

[gameboy1234]

Actually, I think I skipped right to the overanalyzing, but then again what else are fan forums for?

Beer and kraut.

[fjolnir]

indeed, it was a well thought out post!

The current page really puts out a good deal towards Charlie's desperation, he knows if the pieces fall wrong now, he's completely screwed. This being coupled with the fact that Charlie makes it a point to NOT call Jillian by her title means she's definitely on the craplist with him, especially since he addresses Trem with "Greetings your Royal Highness"

I would not be surprised to see an archon hitsquad dispatched to reraze Faq if this all goes pear shaped...

[ftl]

So before anyone starts overanalyzing the Lucky Charms shapes Charlie appeared as,

You were two posts too late

[JohnATallon]

So before anyone starts overanalyzing the Lucky Charms shapes Charlie appeared as, it should be noted that Parson (the supposed narrator/viewpoint of the strip) isn't present for this scene where Charlie's form is revealed- the first time Parson contacted him it was over some kind of speaker or voice filter, so he wouldn't have seen the way in which Charlie manifests himself. So the question, then, is how does all of this background "real world"/coma/Saline IV stuff factor into the comic's reality, given that such a reference to Parson's subconscious is present before he witnesses it?

Actually, I think I skipped right to the overanalyzing, but then again what else are fan forums for?

I've always interpreted the jokes where things in Erf have similar names to things on Earth as being both funny and a quick way to understand the symbolism inherent in the very concept of the Erf-object. Balder has taken a great amount of care with how he uses symbols and foreshadowing, and has put the common symbol library we on Earth know to good use. The metaphysics of Erfworld are such that the symbols encompass all important aspects of the described thing regardless of if Parson is present. They just are, with or without him, and that their true nature happens to conform to symbols from Parson's world is a result of the summoning spell requirement that "Everything should seem familiar and safe to him."

[Dancingrage]

Brainwave moment: Parson just screwed Charlie over hard.

Parson's been suspecting that Charlie's been trying to interfere with Gobwin Knob ever since TBfGK, through the eyebook posts as well as his own thinking (remember the lack of Gobwins around GK, for instance, and how Parson reckoned via his bracer that it was almost certainly Charlie's doing) between that, what he's gleaned from the decrypted Archons, as well as Maggie's early warning that she may not be able to guarantee defense against Parson (not to mention his hacking the eyebooks means hacking a simple Thinkagram would be cake for him, I'd bet), Parson may have just put up an all out BS lie of a plan, maybe something worked out previously, that was intended for Charlie to overhear, proverbially crap himself on, and run a'screamin' to everyone else portending a doom coming in a manner that actually won't happen...the way it was said.

Parson thinks to this level, I wouldn't put it past him in the least.

My guesstimate for the future: Charlie spills the beans that Parson fed him, Jetstone buys it and takes everything that has enough move back to the old capital city. Tramennis probably doesn't have a whole lot of move left, so he's stuck in the city. Goes from there.

[Crisis21]

I think this comic more than anything shows how much of a manipulative and paranoid 'unflattering-term-synonymous-with-individual' Charlie really is. I'm curious as to what he and Tremannis are going to talk about as Tremannis is not only the diplomat for Jetstone, but he's on a quest for answers Charlie is probably hesitant to provide and he also holds in high esteem the person Charlie just cast aside like so much trash.

This is going to be interesting. I have a feeling that Charlie is headed to a point where he severely misjudges someone's likely reaction to his manipulations and it ends up costing him dearly.

[Lor]

Charlie's Luckamancy Charms!
They're flippantly malicious!

[Dr Pepper]

Silly Jillian, tricks are for foolamancers!

[Dr Pepper]

In a related note, I wonder how Charlie knows that Jack has feelings for Jillian.

He was referring to Wanda.

[Ansan Gotti]

Parson thinks to this level, I wouldn't put it past him in the least.

I would be surprised if Parson hasn't considered the possibility of his thinkagrams being hacked. That said, given that he knows the eyebooks are potentially compromised, and desperately needs to convey information to Wanda, he doesn't have much of an alternative to using the thinkagram and hoping he is wrong about his suspicions.

In any event, while I do think it's within the realm of possibility that he's either devised a code to use in thinkagrams, or has planted some false info like a trojan horse, I think it's a bit unlikely, one because it seems a bit too neat and one-uppish, and two because a code that can convey complex concepts sufficiently well while still fooling a casual listener would be really hard to do. And the trojan horse would also need to be determined ahead of time, and who's to say the false info devised would even fit or make sense with the specific situation at hand?

Maybe a signal code, "When I use the word 'hydrant' the next concept is fake," but that can get pretty complicated, too, and runs the risk of misunderstanding.

I'm guessing it will just be a situation where the plan can't easily be countered, and/or is implemented too quickly to allow for a full conveying of the eavesdropping. Or perhaps it will be the Cassandra concept I mentioned earlier.

[SteveMB]

Ugh. I hope that Charlie's just frightening Jill-Sue. Mainly because if he is eavesdropping on Parson's Thinkagram, I'll expect an explanation for why he doesn't eavesdrop on every Thinkagram on Erfworld.

Presumably, there's a cost (if only an opportunity cost of not being able to do something else with the Arkendish) for tapping Thinkagrams.

And there's a big cost for acting on information obtained by tapping Thinkagrams -- giving away the fact that he can do so -- unless he can set it up so that it looks like he got the intel some other way.

[Balance]

People seem to be assuming that Charlie has learned the details of Parson's plan by eavesdropping on a thinkagram. I'd say that's the likeliest scenario, but I can think of at least two others that could have given rise to the exchange between Charlie and Jillian.

1) It's a con. Charlie has no idea what Parson is planning (though he probably assumes Parson will try something). He's trying to run a bluff on Jillian to get her to turn back. Maybe he wants her back there as a backup, or thinks it will help him reestablish a measure of control over her, or hopes to use her presence as a bargaining chit in his talks with Jetstone.

2) He deduced from observing Wanda's force that Parson is back in charge, and that made him nervous. The last time he thought Parson was in a no-win situation, Charlie lost his entire force in the zone, and Parson came out smelling like a rose (by Charlie's standards). He got paranoid enough to contact Parson and spend another calculation. With his knowledge of his own plans, Parson calculated a high enough probability that he would raze the city to send Charlie into conniptions. Now he's trying to salvage whatever he can from the debacle he expects, even though he doesn't actually know any details of the plan.