Book 2 – Page 43

[robak]

[the_tick_rules]

I wonder if Parson could turn to Jetstone? He'd have quite the time with a new side.

[Ghost of Zen]

I don't think that Charlie is manipulating Tram into Parleying with Parson, i really do think that he didn't want Jetstone dealing with GK. mainly because either way it ends if there is a Parley it ends badly for Charlie. Only if Jetstone wipes out the air units above there space right now does it end well for Charlie... Or if Parson tries his plan and it doesn't work.

The reason I say this is because of the status-quo that Charlie was maintaining before the whole Battle for GK and the likelyhood of it returning if either GK wins after this engagement or if they manage to form a treaty with Jetstone. We've already seen that Charlie needs a large amount of income coming in from his mercenary work to sustain his fleet of Archons. This preferably comes from a large number of sides in conflict with each other and paying him to make sure that their side doesn't end. If this fight continues Then either the RCCII or GK are going to need something to tilt the odds in their favor, like our most prominent mercenary. However if the fight ends here, that could seriously jeopardize Charlie's sorce of income. Plus the fact there are a couple of things that Parson learned that could also do some serious damage to Charlie if they got out.

Now as for the Parley, it might be in Parson's and GK's best interest to give over Wanda. Now please don't throw any stones yet, I don't want to see her croaked yet. I like her as a character, even if she does come off as an evil witch sometimes, she has driven the story forward a lot and can continue to do so even if she is imprisoned.

The problem we have with Wanda is that we don't know if the decrypted forces would continue to exist after her death and she can control them with the pliers as we've seen. However, it looks to us so far that the Decrypted are loyal to the pliers. If those were taken away from Wanda, would they still be loyal to Wanda or would they be loyal to whoever held the pliers next? The thing I'm looking at now is give Wanda to Jetsone, on the condition that they have to keep her alive. Tell them that if they kill her all the Decrypted would vanish. Even if we don't know if that would happen, Parson could make it seem that way as that is the worse case situation. That way Jetstone is effectively holding a large portion of forces hostage in the pact, even if their supposed gun does end up being filled with blanks. And we're already wondering about how long till Wanda turns on GK, it might be best to make sure that doesn't happen.

Second, GK keeps the pliers, because otherwise the Decrypted would turn to Jetsone. Or at least make them think that, since we don't know. It would be reasonable with a large number of forces under GK being Decrypted and not wanting to give them up.

Finally, pay the equivalent of the bounty to Jetstone to keep the Archons. They're invaluable to GK's forces and Jetstone just wants them for the money anyways.

If things go the way of negotiations, this would probably be the worst deal that GK can accept. And I do mean the worst deal. Right now Tram thinks it's playing from a position of strength and doesn't need to tell Parson about his thoughts about the long term game. Now if Parson can show that Tram isn't in the position of strength that he is in then he can make the deal less one sided.

Now this is an idea that probably won't get implemented, but it might be fun to see. Parson and Tram play a game, a simulated battle of all the current forces in Jetstone and how it would end if they actually fought. The looser is magically bound to agree to the terms set down by the winner beforehand for the non-aggression pact. They get Jack down there somehow (Capture and release?) and he does the simulation table thing. Maybe even draw it as if it were actually happening so that we can see the battle as it would have turned out without our favorite characters getting croaked for real. And in the end Parson would get to show of his skills to others without them immediately dying.

However at this point I have no idea what is actually going to happen, but it should be fun to watch.

[Carne]

It appears from this that Charlie can NOT evesdrop on thinkagrams.

From this, you can't make any conclusions whether Charlie can eavesdrop on Thinkagrams at all or not.

Consider the information we've received from the text updates and the comics since the one strip that some believe implies the eavesdrop capability. Charlie clearly received *some* sort of new information from some unknown means, given the fairly 180-degree change to his current stance of believing GK will win their engagement, whereas everyone else believes (and for good reason) that GK're screwed. As Duncan states, if Jetstone loses this, they deserve to be conquered. Under normal conditions, he'd be right.

And yet, Charlie could have told Jillian, and could have told Tramennis, what the game plan was, or at least more than he did while holding back some/most of his intel. He could have made up a completely ridiculous story ("Oh, I was talking to Parson earlier, and he let me know his plan because he wanted to gloat, and knew no-one could do anything about it, blah blah blah") to CYA about the eavesdropping (or, if you prefer, Hobgobwin spies in GK, or some uber Thinka-predicta-predictamancer link or whatever tin foil hat theory you want).

The point is, regardless of how Charlie suddenly came to this new understanding, he hasn't explained, to either of the two parties most able to turn the tide back away from GK, ANYTHING anyone needed to know in order to turn the tide away from GK.

Note how Tram can say nothing of the "plan", and he doesn't know Wanda was told to get them at the parely, and he doesn't realize Wanda's last order was to survive no matter what? Charlie didn't evesdrop on the thinkagram.

He doesn't know because it wasn't in the dossier, and Charlie didn't tell him. That's the bare minimum you can conclude from this. Occam's Razor, and all that.

[Miasmark]

For all those thinking as to whether or not Charlie wants them to believe it:
http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... yebook.png

[Urf]

Can Maggie simulate the black room of being pulled into Charlie's head? Can you Trimancer link with a single mancer and 2 warlords?

[reteo]

Something Maggie pointed out in the first book is that skilled Thinkamancers are able to shield themselves from rebound happening. It's more telling that Jillian's head didn't explode.

Yes, by turning the rebound on their victims. However, doing so with a queen would definitely be noticeable to the people around her, and reveal that he was dabbling in their minds. Better to, if possible, withstand the backlash himself with his own skill and the help of the dish than to reveal his actions like that.

[edit]Hmmm... Now that I think about it, though, Charlie probably noticed just how quickly Tramennis was able to get information from him when he was putting the full weight of diversion on the conversation; perhaps he also considered that a parlay with someone that observant might result in a situation where Hamster would reveal more than he means to?[/edit]

[effataigus]

Something Maggie pointed out in the first book is that skilled Thinkamancers are able to shield themselves from rebound happening. It's more telling that Jillian's head didn't explode.

Yes, by turning the rebound on their victims. However, doing so with a queen would definitely be noticeable to the people around her, and reveal that he was dabbling in their minds. Better to, if possible, withstand the backlash himself with his own skill and the help of the dish than to reveal his actions like that.

[edit]Hmmm... Now that I think about it, though, Charlie probably noticed just how quickly Tramennis was able to get information from him when he was putting the full weight of diversion on the conversation; perhaps he also considered that a parlay with someone that observant might result in a situation where Hamster would reveal more than he means to?[/edit]

Hee hee... if Jillian's head exploded I doubt Charlie would have to worry too much about what various people would learn. Everyone in her column from Faq would disband and Vanna and Ansom would instantly fall from the sky. I don't know if I would ever stop giggling if this happened. No fear of that though!

[cdrcjsn]

Tram only said things his father would find attractive. Like trading Decrypted Princes for schmuckers.

I anticipated an allegiance as well, but I worry that Charlie is exploiting Tramennis' diplomatic nature.

I agree with this as well.

Seems like Tram is telling his father whatever he needs to hear so he can negotiate in the first place. He's right in that GK still has enough forces to defeat them, even without the decrypted or arkenpliers.

In any case, GK won't accept the terms that Tram outlines. It's just the high bid in the negotiation (if negotiation happens at all - I suspect someone will botch this, leading to a food fight anyways). I predict that Tram will eventually negotiate for the return of his brother, in a state similar to how Charlie sometimes sells Archons with the "full service" package, i.e. he will treat Slately as if his Duty lay with him, rather than GK, even going so far as to fight GK forces if the situation warrants.

I don't see Wanda losing the arkenpliers, though she might accept giving up all her decrypted. If she is asked to give up the Arkenpliers, she might just go Barbarian, retreat into the magic kingdom and ally with Charlie...

[Urf]

Parson would sooner switch sides himself than allow Wanda to be turned over and croaked. She's a monster in his eyes, and under the idiotic whim of Stanley, she's less damage than in the employ of truly skilled side.

I'm not sure his stance on separating her from the Arkenpliers, as it would mean an unknown risk for the Decrypted, who he also sees as "people".

[RDubyoo]

Yep. I knew Tramennis was doomed the moment he said he admired Jillian.

[Decorus]

Parson can't give up Wanda or the Arkenpliers as Stanley would not allow it.
Tram is negotiating from the belief that he is holding all the cards something Charlie specificly warned him not to do.
Parson is negotiating from the position of I win and Jetstone is in ruins unless you give me what I want.
Parson won't care what Tram says the Parley is his signal to begin his insane plan to destroy Jetstone.

As for Charlie's supposed Hacking abilities its obvious he listens in on all Thinkagrams his side handles which is the vast majority of thinkagrams. There is nothing to suggest his ability to break into an Eyebook to communicate with Parson allows him to read all the communications in the Eyebook or listen in on thinkagrams of other thinkamancers. Even if he could given the large amount of thinkagram traffic there is no guarantee he would be listening in on any that occured. Charlie's plan was to eliminate the threat of GK before Parson was Chief Warlord. Once Parson became Chief Warlord given Parson's past performance in no win situations he made the intelligent decision that nothing Jetstone does from this point on will prevent thier loss.

[TheMutant]

...I really like the soft shading in this update. :V

Also I don't think Trem's going to bite it quite yet, but I've been wrong before...! I'd be interested to see how a Parson/Trem conversation goes.

[Lamech]

He doesn't know because it wasn't in the dossier, and Charlie didn't tell him. That's the bare minimum you can conclude from this. Occam's Razor, and all that.

Why would Charlie hide the explanation of Jetstones coming defeat? That would convince Tram that Parleying is bad. He could have for example explained that he learned from "classified sources" Parson is about to attack during the Parley. And then explained exactly how that would lead to Jetstones defeat. And then Tram would realize that Jetstone could be easily defeated if Jetstone refused to Parley.

Charlie clearly received *some* sort of new information from some unknown means, given the fairly 180-degree change to his current stance of believing GK will win their engagement, whereas everyone else believes (and for good reason) that GK're screwed. As Duncan states, if Jetstone loses this, they deserve to be conquered. Under normal conditions, he'd be right.

What 180 degree change? He was asking Jillian to stick with the plan. And he is trying to come up with a back up plan to ensure Wanda's defeat. It seems to me like he is staying on course actually. The only real information he seems to have learned is that Parson is the new chief warlord. Which is one of the few things he couldn't learn through the thinkagram. (Mearly that Parson is directing the battle, but Wanda always contacts him for help.)

And the only people who believe GK is screwed is the group of people who don't realize Parson is "Willey cayotee Suuuuper genius." Charlie, not being one of the people who doesn't understand what Parson can pull off, concludes that Jetstone is still in danger.

[reteo]

Something Maggie pointed out in the first book is that skilled Thinkamancers are able to shield themselves from rebound happening. It's more telling that Jillian's head didn't explode.

Yes, by turning the rebound on their victims. However, doing so with a queen would definitely be noticeable to the people around her, and reveal that he was dabbling in their minds. Better to, if possible, withstand the backlash himself with his own skill and the help of the dish than to reveal his actions like that.

Hee hee... if Jillian's head exploded I doubt Charlie would have to worry too much about what various people would learn. Everyone in her column from Faq would disband and Vanna and Ansom would instantly fall from the sky. I don't know if I would ever stop giggling if this happened. No fear of that though!

Don't forget that part of Charlie's whole thing is the common perception of his neutrality, and the fact that people trust him to relay their messages. If Charlie is seen to be meddling in the minds of people he is communicating with, fewer people will use Charlescomm communication, reducing one very valuable aspect of his business. So, even if he does do underhanded things, his pretense must be maintained in order to avoid alienating existing clients. Also, keep in mind that croaking is not the sole result of a broken link; both Jack and Wanda are testament to that. So, if Jillian only gets incapacitated from the effect, it would seriously jeopardize Charlie's secondary cash cow that supplements his mercenary business.

[CorrTerek]

However, it looks to us so far that the Decrypted are loyal to the pliers.

How do you figure that? Every Decrypted whose head we've gotten inside of has developed some sort of attachment to Wanda, with the possible exception of Ossomer, who is newly Decrypted. I haven't really seen any evidence that they're loyal only to the pliers, just to the person who Decrypted them.

[Urf]

I actually see that devotion as a motif, echoing Wanda's origins at the overwhelmingly emotional Faq. Denizens of Faq are significant in their emotional capacity, —and the ArkenPliers, attuned to a Faq-ian are probably responding to her subconscious desires or needs.

[John Thacker]

Seems like Tram is telling his father whatever he needs to hear so he can negotiate in the first place.

And yet it seems like from the last panel that King Slately both realizes this, and still seems inclined to grant his wish. Actually bumped the King up slightly in my estimation.

[multilis]

And yet it seems like from the last panel that King Slately both realizes this

GK defeated the royal coalition without pliers and worse situation in book 1. It is reasonable to conclude that a side with Hammer and Parson and large number of cities (producing stuff) is still dangerous to a side that is nearly bankrupt and unable to attune to their pliers.

I think that Stately agreed with assessment, and respected that his new chief warlord was making good progress... the parley with Charlie did turn out useful.

...

1 million penalty for breaking non-aggession pact imo is risky with what we know, GK is super rich right now, possible they could backstab and finish off Jetstone and get money back if quick enough.

[Lamech]

1 million penalty for breaking non-aggession pact imo is risky with what we know, GK is super rich right now, possible they could backstab and finish off Jetstone and get money back if quick enough.

Don't be silly. GK has popped at least 70 dwagons, and has the upkeed of over 90e00 units to pay. And even if the dragons got tamed when they just happened to fly into GK, and they some how have a ration source to pay their upkeed for free its not like they could have just wandered into a a massive pile of gems to get a million shmuckers plus the huge cost of building all their cities.

Simply put there is no possible way GK just happens to have enough shmuckers to pay the million penalty.

Although if GK by some titanic intervention did have enough, they would be able to fly right up to the garrison unopposed by the RCC since they don't have the cash to break alliance. Which would be really bad, since those dwagons could probably instantly wreck it capturing a whole city of units... Good thing GK doesn't have the money!

Wait GK does have the money? Oh well I never really liked the RCC anyway.