On Complaints

Speculation, discoveries, complaints, accusations, praise, and all other Erfworld discussion.

Re: On Complaints

Postby Hiai » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:45 pm

If you don't care what other people think of your opinions, why do you persist in expressing them?
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Re: On Complaints

Postby Nihila » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:53 pm

Because it's important for the opinions to be expressed, because it offers what I actually think. Just because I could hardly care less about people's opinions for my opinions (meta-opinions? :D ) doesn't mean that I think that anyone's opinion is unimportant. Feedback is appreciated, but putting words into my mouth? Not. At. All.
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Re: On Complaints

Postby cheeseaholic » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:14 pm

Well this topic went to hell rather quickly.

As for my opinions...I'll just say that the author has made it quite clear that he doesn't want to see complaints about the schedule on the forum. And he was trying to not sound like an asshole. I see people complaining about the schedule in the very topic that the comic author made to stop the complaining. And the responses, instead of pointing that out, are simply being dicks to the schedule complainers, which the author was trying to avoid.

Everyone needs to calm down and pet a kitten.
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Re: On Complaints

Postby cloudbreaker » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:22 pm

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Bored? Read The Adventured of Melissa Ray. An Erfworld fanfic. comment here

Or A Tale From Traz. (Now complete!). comment here.
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Re: On Complaints

Postby Nihila » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:30 pm

cheeseaholic wrote:Well this topic went to hell rather quickly.

As for my opinions...I'll just say that the author has made it quite clear that he doesn't want to see complaints about the schedule on the forum. And he was trying to not sound like an asshole. I see people complaining about the schedule in the very topic that the comic author made to stop the complaining. And the responses, instead of pointing that out, are simply being dicks to the schedule complainers, which the author was trying to avoid.

Everyone needs to calm down and pet a kitten.
Okay, fair enough. I'll stop complaining now. And, on a much more important topic, KITTY!
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Re: On Complaints

Postby Ouze » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:38 pm

balder wrote:I don't want to disengage from the readership. But there are times like right now when it seems like the smart thing to do.


If they're bringing you down, maybe you should? Gotta do what's right for those in the majority, but mostly yourself. Out of all the people who complained (and yes, I was one of them) there wasn't a single one who didn't love Erfworld, and that's gotta be worth a lot. I'm certainly sorry to hear of your troubles, and hope things work and, and quickly at that. I posted I was unhappy with the pace updates were posted at. You've created this thread addressing it. At this point, mission accomplished, in my mind - this is how fast updates will be, this is how fast updates will be. I can certainly be happy with what I get, now that you have said that they will be less frequent. I can certainly wait patiently for my pre-order. Let me reiterate the main thrust here - I love Erfworld. People complain about the lines at amusement parks too, but that's because amusement parks are awesome and everyone wants to get on the ride. I'd think more about the sweet-ass roller coaster I built, personally.

If you don't want to see complaints, add a note to this indicating the updates will come as fast as they come, and that's the deal. Then lock the thread, and have your mods lock or delete any new topics or posts regarding the updates as OT. You run this show! Be bold.

As a brief aside, I like the text updates - the short stories about the lore and backstories in Erfworld - at least as much as the comic. Sometimes more, depending. The one with the end of the spearman, after Stanley was executing them and had captured the city? fantastic. The one written from the gobwin's point of view, about how he felt about Parson? Even better. When you're pushing out a text update, it's not peas, it's steak - at least to me.
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Re: On Complaints

Postby Rosa Vernal » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:07 pm

Ouze wrote:As a brief aside, I like the text updates - the short stories about the lore and backstories in Erfworld - at least as much as the comic. Sometimes more, depending. The one with the end of the spearman, after Stanley was executing them and had captured the city? fantastic. The one written from the gobwin's point of view, about how he felt about Parson? Even better. When you're pushing out a text update, it's not peas, it's steak - at least to me.


Seconded, actually. The text updates, at least to me, are great ways of developing the characters, and showing the work put into the Erf-verse.
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Re: On Complaints

Postby Hiai » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:34 pm

Yay! Something I can agree with! Can this be a "We Love Text Updates" thread, now?
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Re: On Complaints

Postby vector121 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:54 pm

For what it's worth, I just subscribed to be a tool because of all these complaints. :P

Well that, and I absolutely LOVE the subscription model you are using. I mean, subscription fees translating to store credit? FanBOOPINGtastic! I figured I'm likely going to buy the books anyway at this point, and my 2 yr old daughter would go nutso over a dwagon plushie.

Hey, life happens. Thanks for the good work so far, and I look forward to more of it.
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Re: On Complaints

Postby effataigus » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:47 am

Tensor wrote:In fact, I don't think anyone has said otherwise (publicly).


Otherwise has been said in these forums, and for the reasons Rob pointed out. I am among those who would prefer maximum Erfage to an update schedule (that might not be able to be kept anyway).

As an aside, I recommend Google reader. Every morning I get my E-mail fix and then log onto this feature. It tells me which of all of my favorite webcomics have updated in a handful of handy tabs. It would save me the effort of navigating here 100 times per day if I wasn't also so curious what crazy things were being said on the forums. A great convenience for the subset of webcomic-addicted non-internet-privacy concerned among us.

Erfworld is both literally and metaphorically on top of my unwholesomely long webcomic list... and two of the other comics on the list hail from Rob's and Xin's plugs.

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Re: On Complaints

Postby ftl » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:36 am

vector121 wrote:For what it's worth, I just subscribed to be a tool because of all these complaints. :P


Mee too! I wonder how long it takes to go through? Given how swamped Rob is and that it said that things had to be done manually, might take a while.

Well that, and I absolutely LOVE the subscription model you are using. I mean, subscription fees translating to store credit? FanBOOPINGtastic! I figured I'm likely going to buy the books anyway at this point, and my 2 yr old daughter would go nutso over a dwagon plushie.


Eh, less enthusiastic about that. Not sure there's anything in the store I'll actually ever get - I really don't need the paper books when I can read online, and in my current cramped living accomodations the only place for the plush dwagons would be in a suitcase in storage. I suppose I'll find something. Maybe I can give out dwagon plushies to friends.

Hiai wrote:Yay! Something I can agree with! Can this be a "We Love Text Updates" thread, now?


Definitely! Text updates are awesome. The comic pages are so very pretty, but the text updates seem more filling.

effataigus wrote:Otherwise has been said in these forums, and for the reasons Rob pointed out. I am among those who would prefer maximum Erfage to an update schedule (that might not be able to be kept anyway).


Same here, seconded.
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Re: On Complaints

Postby Nihila » Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:45 am

ftl wrote:
Hiai wrote:Yay! Something I can agree with! Can this be a "We Love Text Updates" thread, now?


Definitely! Text updates are awesome. The comic pages are so very pretty, but the text updates seem more filling.

effataigus wrote:Otherwise has been said in these forums, and for the reasons Rob pointed out. I am among those who would prefer maximum Erfage to an update schedule (that might not be able to be kept anyway).


Same here, seconded.
Okay, seems I've been outvoted. And, I think text updates are great. Well, I just love reading, so for me, text= :D .
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Re: On Complaints

Postby hilrage » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:04 am

To all the complainers out there. This is probably my favorite online comic, and yes, I'm disappointed when I check in the morning and there isn't any new comics. That being said, how many people were complaining that Michaelangelo was taking waaaaaaay to long to paint that chapel ceiling. I bet a number of people back then just wanted it done. . .all that scaffolding in the way. . . drop clothes always covering the pews. . . besides, nobody is going to be looking at the ceiling.

I guess what I'm saying is that I would rather the quality stays, and the quantity drops until things settle down. Would you rather have a nice eggshell white ceiling with a little fillagree?
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Re: On Complaints

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:59 am

hilrage wrote:That being said, how many people were complaining that Michaelangelo was taking waaaaaaay to long to paint that chapel ceiling. I bet a number of people back then just wanted it done. . .all that scaffolding in the way. . . drop clothes always covering the pews. . .


Oy! If Pope *wikipedias it* Julius the 2nd hadn't been on his case, Michelangelo would have ogled Italian bodybuilders all day. j/k

But that's not a valid comparison. Erfworld is Erfworld, a comic that can afford to update when the creative juices are right and is not beholden to any one demanding customer. Michelangelo was, because hey that church needed to go fully armed and operational yesterday.

(Or another way to put it- Erfworld is Rob's, and I guess also Jamie's and Xin's, project. The Sistine Chapel was the Pope's project.)

Oh, and KITTENS!

... are evil little imps. Just look at them innocent eyes as they rip your flesh to shreds.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: On Complaints

Postby Ansan Gotti » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:58 pm

balder wrote:My life is at the lowest ebb I can ever remember. I do not wish to share the details publicly. Please do not ask about it or speculate in the forums.


I was afraid it was something like this. You have all my best wishes.
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Re: On Complaints

Postby Hiai » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:37 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:... Michelangelo would have ogled Italian bodybuilders all day.


There are Italian bodybuilders to be ogled?? Are they still available? Where can one find these alleged bodybuilders, and do they compare to other bodybuilders? Why wasn't I informed about the ogling? WHAT'S GOING ON HERE THAT I HAVE NOT OGLED ANY BODYBUILDERS, ITALIAN OR OTHERWISE?!?!!?



BLANDCorporatio wrote: Oh, and KITTENS!

... are evil little imps. Just look at them innocent eyes as they rip your flesh to shreds.


That's why one must pet them. It's good advice, really. Always good to appease the evil demons, lest they decide to rend your soul away whilst you sleep, innocently unaware of the danger they pose. Petting makes them think you aren't on to them, as well...
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running a business?

Postby ProfessorBoOtY » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:38 pm

Ill preface with the fact that I run a small business.

The author needs to do whats best for his personal life and for his business as it is my understanding that Erfworld is his source of income. Obviously a printed copy of erfworld will bring in additional income and time must be allocated for it, on the other hand if the the updates are untimely or randomly updated readership falls and revenue generated drops. Corespondingly, interest in a printed copy of Erfword or other Erfworld products would likely fall. Rob appears to appear at a very high number of conventions so a balance between promotion (convention appearances) and other means of revenue generation must be struck if he desires to continue to run Erfworld as his primary means of income.

I have personal opinons on what my priorites would be if I was making convention appearances to promote and or sell a product and based off of what I know from these forums, it would likely differ from the author. None of us have the full story, of course, and this is idle speculation on my part, but I personally would want to be able to sell copies of book 1 every time I made an appearance at a convention. To me this would be a higher priority than the promotion side of things. On the otherhand, these could be compsented appearances for panels which would add another element, likewise who knows how much merchandise sales he makes at conventions.
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Re: On Complaints

Postby arin » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:35 pm

balder wrote:I'm asking for patience, not advice. I think about Erfworld more or less my entire waking life, and there is probably no suggestion you can make that I haven't considered and dismissed for pretty realistic reasons.


Well, first off, to be clear, it wasn't advice. It wasn't a suggestion. It was a demand. A diplomatically-worded demand, so-written insomuch as 1/250000th of your employer base doesn't have much weight to throw behind a demand, but it was a demand nonetheless. That said, however...

balder wrote:A schedule solves nothing. There are all of a couple dozen of Erfworld's 250,000 readers who have been vocal about this, but those two dozen have done a lot of damage. If we radically change how we update to satisfy those 2 dozen, then we'll get a different 2 dozen complaining about that. Those ones will say how they were "being patient and just waiting for it to go back to 2 a week someday," but now that it's officially once every 9 days, they're canceling their membership. You see?


...this makes perfect sense, and hearing that logic was all that was necessary to shut me up about it. Mind you, I disagree with you, for reasons I won't bother sharing because you've made it abundantly clear that you have no interest in my opinion on the matter, but I can respect that you thought it through and made your decision.

balder wrote:It will continue on an "as we can" basis. Eventually, this will get much closer to what we want it to be, which is at least one page and one text update a week, preferably two of one and one of the other. That will happen, but it will be 2011 sometime. This is the best we can do.


And HEY, a statement of intent and a rough estimate of when you feel it might come together? UNBELIEVABLY reassuring and useful. Never in any of your bottom posts did you ever come close to this level of clarity. "I thought about this, decided against it, this is where I want to be and I'm sure I'm not going to get there before XX." I doubt these complaints would ever have picked up steam or gotten nearly as bad if we'd heard that instead of "sorry, life is hard, deal with it," which is essentially what your bottom posts have amounted to. Unlike the way Tramennis' parley is likely to go, most times communication really /is/ the best solution. :)

balder wrote:I'm asking you to find something better to do with your time than bitch about this comic's updates, because it can't possibly help and is definitely making things worse. All you do is get me and the other readers upset. It does not lead to things getting better, ever. You just make it that much harder for the people who want to keep posting about story here to have fun.


Complaints and criticisms are the only way anything EVER gets better. If critics didn't whine about what was bad about a movie, no one would ever aspire to make a better one. I don't know if complaining here on the forums made things "better" on the grand scale, but they got your attention and you took a moment to give a clearer insight into your thoughts and expectations so, at least from my perspective, I'm a lot better off than I was before I spoke up. Would you prefer I'd chosen to just ragequit and not come back?

balder wrote:But I know how this goes. I have played it out many times. I just played it out again last night. What happens? Some (even most) people say, "hey it's okay, I understand." And they do. But a smaller number smell blood in the water and attack, sometimes by registering a new account at 3:47 so they can begin calling me a whiny bitch at 3:49 and not let up. And others read that and go "yeah, the author's a whiny bitch," which is why I can't win. Can't be silent, can't deal with it via news posts. And I can't have a dialog here because I am outgunned, and anything I post sounds assholish even to me.


Well, with the exception of telling us to take our advice and STFU, I don't think you've sounded very assholish. And I don't think you're a "whiny bitch". And I KNOW you're not outgunned, because plenty of people would come to your defense if someone /did/ decide to turn this into a personal attack. But yeah, it's true, you can't please everybody, and people reading negative comments are sometimes going to agree with those comments. But the dialog isn't even about what you say, it's about the fact that you're saying SOMETHING. It's far easier to harshly judge a silent, semi-mythical figure (yes, to us little people, authors really ARE semi-mythical at times) than a human being who's part of the conversation.

Now I'm going to respect your wishes and drop the subject. Thank you for addressing it, and thank you for sharing your talent and imagination with us. Hope things are getting better for you.

Someone pass me a kitten?
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Re: On Complaints

Postby balder » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:51 am

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Re: On Complaints

Postby balder » Fri Oct 29, 2010 4:53 am

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...or this.
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