Erfworld Game Revived?

[thetobias]

So the Erfworld Game by Kaed has stranded by the wayside, which is a shame. It was well thought up if a bit chaotic

In a post in that topic I've proposed to set up this game. Possibly on a seperate forum devoted to it. Would anyone be interested to play it?

That is a shame really, I'd love to play or even GM one of these games

If we can get enough others I don't see why we can't get a game up and running. We'd have to get some things straight though:

1. A set amount of time per turn. (if everyone finishes his turn the GMs can of course decide to reduce this and with a good reason from a player increase it)
2. A good system for GMs or players bailing out. (reserve GMs, players "autoplaying" for a set number of turns before their side is "vanquished")
3. A direction for the game: Will it be a story telling game which allows people to jump in (start as a barbarian with a small purse and some units, allow them to either claim a capital site and become a side or just goof around and do mercenary work) or a closed game with a fixed number of turns or a fixed goal where no people can join. (I personally prefer the storytelling game, but hey, that's the roleplayer in me , I'd probably enjoy playing someones CWL or caster as well (hmm maybe an interesting idea for the game ))
4. A way for player-player comunication, GM-GM comunication and GM-player communication. (I'd go as far to suggest setting up a forum to run this game from)
5. A GM to player ratio which doesn't cause the GM's to be burned out. (I'd suggest 1 GM to 2-3 players for this)
6. Infrastructure! We need stuff like databases (these can be excel based for all I care), a rule book, excel calculators, a forum (?), a map, proper communications and whatnot to run this (I'll volunteer to make most of the infrastructure since I like working with spreadsheets, sifting data and making forums)

So what do you guys think? Interested?

Also: I'm setting up a poll in a different topic to measure if people are interested.

[W.U.]

I certainly would.

EDIT: I'd like it to be a story-driven game.

[Nihila]

Maybe I'll join if it looks good later on, as either a player or a GM. Some suggestions I have for the game, as of now:
Weather might be interesting, so I can try to figure something out for that. Each hex could have a list of Weathers that can affect it--you wouldn't have a Blizzard in a Desert, for instance.
Roads, Fortresses, Tunnels, Bridges, possibly even Great Walls--can be constructed by players.
Noble Warlords would make things a little more Erf-like, so we might think about having those.
A system where Farms produce Provisions instead of Schmuckers, which might reduce a unit's upkeep. Maybe have more Provisions needed to have an effect for units with more Hits.
Heavy isn't listed as a Special for Bogroll, so I think that it should be more of a penalty--sort of like, if you buy more than 4(?) Hits for a unit, it counts as a Heavy.
Declining Schmucker return, as in Siralus's game--for every 10 hexes from the capital, -10% income. Because Kaed's cities produce fixed amounts of Schmuckers, this would be pretty simple to implement. This would increase incentive to support smaller sides, because if there's a Level 1 city 50 hexes away from the capital, you might spend more than 300 Schmuckers per turn to defend it. Whether this should also affect Resource Point Schmuckers I'm less sure of.
Maybe have a few more options in basic units--instead of all Stabbers being 6 Hit, 4 Attack, 2 Defense, 4 Move units, maybe have an option for a 6 Hit, 3 Attack, 3 Defense, 4 Move Stabber. Possibly something similar for Archers and Pikers--there's already some customization for Scouts.
On a related note, increase the move of the basic units a bit--Stabbers maybe could have 5 Move, Pikers/Archers 4 Move, Scouts 10 or 8, depending on whether they fly or not.
A Courtier unit, which would level by managing cities and might have its upkeep decrease as it leveled.
More customization options for cities.
Bonuses on certain Terrains--the Gobwins and Marbits had "big bonuses for Tunnel fighting," maybe some special that grants +3/+3 to a unit while fighting in a given Terrain could represent this.

I'd suggest having an open-ended game where people can join, because that'll feel more Erfworldian--new sides pop, old sides grow. If it's fun enough, it could last a long, long time.

[thetobias]

Yay, reactions . Suggestions: let's do this!

Weather might be interesting, so I can try to figure something out for that. Each hex could have a list of Weathers that can affect it--you wouldn't have a Blizzard in a Desert, for instance.

Weather might be interesting, I'd advise against it though. Remember "Less work for DMs is more turns for players" and this will cost a lot of work. So unless you have an idea to streamline a weather system I don't think it's a good idea.

Roads, Fortresses, Tunnels, Bridges, possibly even Great Walls--can be constructed by players.

Yes, yes! Triple yes. I completely agree with this mechanic. I'd add a builder unit to the lvl 1 city production queue which can build improvements Civilizations-style.

Noble Warlords would make things a little more Erf-like, so we might think about having those.

Also agree with this one: I'd let it work like this: every time a royal side pops a warlord it is guaranteed to be noble and has a small chance to be royal. Heirs are always royal, units promoted to warlords are non-noble. (a side with an overlord will not be able to pop royals or nobles but get other advantages (maybe lower upkeep for their warlords or higher loyalty).

A system where Farms produce Provisions instead of Schmuckers, which might reduce a unit's upkeep. Maybe have more Provisions needed to have an effect for units with more Hits.

I'd rather not add this one, firstly because it makes the game more difficult and I have a "less is more" attitude to games, and secondly because I believe the comic said something about farms, mines and foraging gaining you Schmuckers which you used to buy rations for units.

Heavy isn't listed as a Special for Bogroll, so I think that it should be more of a penalty--sort of like, if you buy more than 4(?) Hits for a unit, it counts as a Heavy.

I say we should use a Battle for ... approach to heavy/light units. 1 hit is tiny, 3 hits is small, 5 hits is average, 10 hits is large, 20 hits is huge and 30+ hits is giant. Anything over 10 hits would be counted as a heavy for game purposes.

Declining Schmucker return, as in Siralus's game--for every 10 hexes from the capital, -10% income. Because Kaed's cities produce fixed amounts of Schmuckers, this would be pretty simple to implement. This would increase incentive to support smaller sides, because if there's a Level 1 city 50 hexes away from the capital, you might spend more than 300 Schmuckers per turn to defend it. Whether this should also affect Resource Point Schmuckers I'm less sure of.

Interesting idea, akin to the squalor of Civilizations III, I like it, but we might need to tes an ideal percentage. Also, no distance restrictions, in case of an overlap the player can decide which city the resource node will belong to.

Maybe have a few more options in basic units--instead of all Stabbers being 6 Hit, 4 Attack, 2 Defense, 4 Move units, maybe have an option for a 6 Hit, 3 Attack, 3 Defense, 4 Move Stabber. Possibly something similar for Archers and Pikers--there's already some customization for Scouts.

I agree to this as well, but it might need some tinkering.

On a related note, increase the move of the basic units a bit--Stabbers maybe could have 5 Move, Pikers/Archers 4 Move, Scouts 10 or 8, depending on whether they fly or not.

That would depend on the map size, but I think I'd like to know what someone who played the last game thought of the move their units had.

A Courtier unit, which would level by managing cities and might have its upkeep decrease as it leveled.

That would leave our precious warlords free to bash in some skulls, I like it. No attack, move or leadership for them tho'. Also they will have a chance to spawn as royal or noble. I'd call them Governors.

More customization options for cities.

Dunno, what kind of options would you like to see?

Bonuses on certain Terrains--the Gobwins and Marbits had "big bonuses for Tunnel fighting," maybe some special that grants +3/+3 to a unit while fighting in a given Terrain could represent this.

We could make the specials [terrain]capable and [terrain]fighter where [terrain]fighter would require capable and give a big bonus. Also sides based on a certain terrain type will get units with a free [terrain]capable promotion.

I'd suggest having an open-ended game where people can join, because that'll feel more Erfworldian--new sides pop, old sides grow. If it's fun enough, it could last a long, long time.

Then we're in agreement

Well that's it for now folks, I'll be spending my evening scrounging a good ruleset together from the Erfworld Game topic and going to the new Harry Potter film

[HerbieRai]

I'd love to play and willing to GM.

There are some tools online that can help GM with all the map stuff. A while back I found a program call "electronic cardboard" that seems like it would help a lot. You can import maps as a background, then put other bitmaps (units and cities) on it and move them around. The real help is that A) you can have a see through background color for the units and cities, so they don't block everything behind them and B) you can have notes for every unit or city on the board, which hide when your not using them. Useful for remembering numbers, and other stats. While it isn't a combat calculator it seems like it would help keep everything straight for the GM. I forgot where I got it, but it is freeware and the zip file (which I still have) is 2.3 MB. Unzipped its about 23 MB.

[thetobias]

You mean this one? http://www.sourcecodeonline.com/details ... board.html

Great suggestion, thanks though for obvious reasons the GMs have to be able to send around maps.Note to self: poke around in the program. Also I'm probably gonna use databases or spreadsheets to keep track of stacks, cities and the like.

I'd love to play and willing to GM.

Then please say so in the poll it's there for a reason xD

[Nihila]

I'd rather not add this one, firstly because it makes the game more difficult and I have a "less is more" attitude to games, and secondly because I believe the comic said something about farms, mines and foraging gaining you Schmuckers which you used to buy rations for units.

And there was also a slaughterhouse and smokehouse. This struck Parson as particularly weird, because of how farms worked. As he understood it, if you had a farm, then one turn a piglet would pop on your farm. It would live there for a few turns, becoming a bigger pig each turn. Then at the start of another turn, it would depop and various pig-related foods would pop in the larder of the nearest city and/or the capital.

Yes, yes! Triple yes. I completely agree with this mechanic. I'd add a builder unit to the lvl 1 city production queue which can build improvements Civilizations-style.

I'd consider just having the construction duty going to Warlords/Governors. Somehow, civilian units strike me as distinctly un-Erf like.

Also agree with this one: I'd let it work like this: every time a royal side pops a warlord it is guaranteed to be noble and has a small chance to be royal. Heirs are always royal, units promoted to warlords are non-noble. (a side with an overlord will not be able to pop royals or nobles but get other advantages (maybe lower upkeep for their warlords or higher loyalty).

I was thinking that a royal side could pop non-Noble Warlords, which would have lower upkeep but less... something else, and Noble Warlords popped in the capital would be Royal. Heirs would have a higher upkeep than Nobles, however.

I say we should use a Battle for ... approach to heavy/light units. 1 hit is tiny, 3 hits is small, 5 hits is average, 10 hits is large, 20 hits is huge and 30+ hits is giant. Anything over 10 hits would be counted as a heavy for game purposes.

Okay, that works, but I'd say that since Knight-class units have 10 base Hits, having all Knights be large is... off.

Interesting idea, akin to the squalor of Civilizations III, I like it, but we might need to tes an ideal percentage. Also, no distance restrictions, in case of an overlap the player can decide which city the resource node will belong to.

In the World of Erfcraft game (Siralus's), 10% looked like it would work pretty well. Slightly less might work, but this would help curb giant empires and encourage coalitions.

That would leave our precious warlords free to bash in some skulls, I like it. No attack, move or leadership for them tho'. Also they will have a chance to spawn as royal or noble. I'd call them Governors.

I think that Courtier/Governors should have Move(because I think they should be allowed to construct stuff, primarily), but I'm not quite so sure about royal governors. I'll think about that.

Edit: And, in response to what I'd like to see in city customization is actual options. In Kaed's game, cities of a certain level were all identical. I'm not entirely sure how to implement that, so I'll think about that, too.

[Twoy]

I'm in as a player.

[Nihila]

Okay, for cities, in Ehbobo's War of the Arkentools, Outer Walls could be customized--"• Wall: Walls come in several types, each with different amounts of points to add on to the base, or to spend on air defenses. Air defenses are magical triggers that can hit fliers who would normally pass over unharmed. Level 1: 0 points. Level 2: 20 points. Level 3: 50 points. Level 4: 100 points.
Hits: 75 Air Defenses: 20 Defense: 50 Cargo: 24"

I'd like to see something like that, but maybe with options throughout the entire city--Air Defenses in the Tower, highly customizable walls with some Specials of their own (maybe crenelations or something), and some other stuff.

At this point, I'll probably want to join from the outset, because it should be pretty cool.

[thetobias]

.

And there was also a slaughterhouse and smokehouse. This struck Parson as particularly weird, because of how farms worked. As he understood it, if you had a farm, then one turn a piglet would pop on your farm. It would live there for a few turns, becoming a bigger pig each turn. Then at the start of another turn, it would depop and various pig-related foods would pop in the larder of the nearest city and/or the capital.

Still less is more, so I'd vote against it

I'd consider just having the construction duty going to Warlords/Governors. Somehow, civilian units strike me as distinctly un-Erf like.

You make a good point. I've made a courtier unit with (6/0/0/5) and 50(+25/level) upkeep who does the same as a warlord, except for not being able to lead stacks and not having the leadership promotion.

I was thinking that a royal side could pop non-Noble Warlords, which would have lower upkeep but less... something else, and Noble Warlords popped in the capital would be Royal. Heirs would have a higher upkeep than Nobles, however.

I'm going to follow established continuity here. A warlord popped in a city under a royal side will always be noble with a slight chance of being royal. If popped in the capital the warlord has a higher chance of being royal. Units promoted to the warlord position or popped in a non-Royal side will never be noble or royal.

Okay, that works, but I'd say that since Knight-class units have 10 base Hits, having all Knights be large is... off.

Good point, I've changed it to every unit with more than 10 hits is heavy.

In the World of Erfcraft game (Siralus's), 10% looked like it would work pretty well. Slightly less might work, but this would help curb giant empires and encourage coalitions.

Ok, how about we test it with 1%/square instead of 10% per ten squares.

Okay, for cities, in Ehbobo's War of the Arkentools, Outer Walls could be customized--"• Wall: Walls come in several types, each with different amounts of points to add on to the base, or to spend on air defenses. Air defenses are magical triggers that can hit fliers who would normally pass over unharmed. Level 1: 0 points. Level 2: 20 points. Level 3: 50 points. Level 4: 100 points.
Hits: 75 Air Defenses: 20 Defense: 50 Cargo: 24"

I'd like to see something like that, but maybe with options throughout the entire city--Air Defenses in the Tower, highly customizable walls with some Specials of their own (maybe crenelations or something), and some other stuff.

I like the wall customization bit with extra wall specials (such as No Gate - increases wall hits and defense but non-flyers can only leave mounted or via tunnels). I'm unsure about air defenses though, I always thought that was shockamancy.

[Nihila]

You make a good point. I've made a courtier unit with (6/0/0/5) and 50(+25/level) upkeep who does the same as a warlord, except for not being able to lead stacks and not having the leadership promotion.

Would the Courtier's abilities change at higher levels? If not, I'd recommend that the upkeep be static.

I'm going to follow established continuity here. A warlord popped in a city under a royal side will always be noble with a slight chance of being royal. If popped in the capital the warlord has a higher chance of being royal. Units promoted to the warlord position or popped in a non-Royal side will never be noble or royal.

Okay. So, will our sides start off as royal in the game?

Ok, how about we test it with 1%/square instead of 10% per ten squares.

I think that a zone where cities don't suffer any decline would be a good thing to have--this would form the core of a player's side, and it would be a very solid core. However, one thing I have noticed is that this game's cities will probably be a bit more spread out than in Siralus's game, so we might consider 5% per 10 hexes, or possibly even less.

I like the wall customization bit with extra wall specials (such as No Gate - increases wall hits and defense but non-flyers can only leave mounted or via tunnels). I'm unsure about air defenses though, I always thought that was shockamancy.

It is, but the air defenses work like scrolls--you can save them up and then activate them, so the air defense stat would be a kind of capacity, the maximum amount of air defenses that a city can fire off at once.

Edit: Some other questions I thought of:
Will Tundra be a Terrain in this game?
Will the specials list be like Dark Arbiter's, but with [Terrain] Fighter?(https://docs.google.com/View?id=dhnqc944_203ffqkr9fn)

Thanks for your time!

[thetobias]

Would the Courtier's abilities change at higher levels? If not, I'd recommend that the upkeep be static.

They will increase the bonus the managed city gets.

Okay. So, will our sides start off as royal in the game?

That will be for every player to decide. You can choose to start as royal or nonroyal and barbarian or non barbarian.

I think that a zone where cities don't suffer any decline would be a good thing to have--this would form the core of a player's side, and it would be a very solid core. However, one thing I have noticed is that this game's cities will probably be a bit more spread out than in Siralus's game, so we might consider 5% per 10 hexes, or possibly even less.

Ok how about this (in the form of an excel formula.
Squalor Rating=1-IF(Distance<=10;0;0,05*(Distance-10))
However, I will add negative modifiers to positive modifiers before deciding the modifier to the city. So a border city with a very good governor could run almost as good as a city close to the capital.

It is, but the air defenses work like scrolls--you can save them up and then activate them, so the air defense stat would be a kind of capacity, the maximum amount of air defenses that a city can fire off at once.

I think that the air defense cap should be infinite.

[Twoy]

However, one thing I have noticed is that this game's cities will probably be a bit more spread out than in Siralus's game...

Where did you see this? Are there preliminary rules posted somewhere? Or are you basing your assumption on Kaed's rules, which I have not looked at in a long time. I'm fairly familiar with Dark Arbiter's rules. That game was great for the 52 turns that it lasted.

Attached is a map at turn 50 with my seven cities from Dark Arbiter's game.

[Nihila]

Where did you see this? Are there preliminary rules posted somewhere? Or are you basing your assumption on Kaed's rules, which I have not looked at in a long time. I'm fairly familiar with Dark Arbiter's rules. That game was great for the 52 turns that it lasted.

I'm basing it off of Kaed's rules, but that map is actually on about the same scale (distance-between-cities-wise) as Siralus's game. So, 10% per 10 hexes should be fair.

So a border city with a very good governor could run almost as good as a city close to the capital.

This strikes me as a good thing, so I think that your mechanics (perhaps with the slightly faster increase to squalor) should work very well.

Edit: And, my old questions, with some new ones as well:
Will Tundra be included as a Terrain?
Will the Specials be the same as Dark Arbiter's game, with new additions (e.g. [Terrain] Fighter)? (Link: https://docs.google.com/View?id=dhnqc944_203ffqkr9fn)
What advantages would a barbarian side have?
What advantages would a non-royal side have?
Will we be allowed to have Tunnels in non-city hexes, acting like underground roads? (Now that would make for some odd guerrilla warfare...)
How many Ship types would each side have?
Can a Flying unit buy [Terrain] Fighter if it also buys the corresponding Terrain Capability?
How much Juice would regenerate each turn?

[thetobias]

Edit: And, my old questions, with some new ones as well:

Ok, lets do this.

Will Tundra be included as a terrain?

Yes (havent got good rules for it though)

Will the Specials be the same as Dark Arbiter's game, with new additions (e.g. [Terrain] Fighter)? (Link: https://docs.google.com/View?id=dhnqc944_203ffqkr9fn)

I read the list and will use it. Terrain fighter will however be scrapped as a special. Instead the special terrain capability will also give bonuses to combat (while attacking) or defense (while defending)

What advantages would a barbarian side have?

Still have to try and figure this one out. It will in any case be easier for a gm to manage a barbarian side so it would at least increase the max players.

What advantages would a non-royal side have?

Popping lower upkeep warlords, non-noble warlords have a higher loyalty score.

Will we be allowed to have Tunnels in non-city hexes, acting like underground roads? (Now that would make for some odd guerrilla warfare...)

Hmm... I think it would be possible. (only in mountains, need to be made by a dirtamancer, will act like a road, only enterable by light and burrower units) these will act as roads for mountain kingdoms.

How many Ship types would each side have?

3, the light sloop-class ships, the medium galley-class ships and the heavy galleon-class ship.

Can a Flying unit buy [Terrain] Fighter if it also buys the corresponding Terrain Capability?

See my answer about the bonuses. Flyers will be able to buy terrain capable, but will not get the movement bonus.

How much Juice would regenerate each turn?

I really still have to think about this but I'm guessing something like 1/3 or 1/2 of max juice per turn.

[Crovius]

I'm in as a GM/Bookkeeper or a player, possibly a GM that runs the NPC/Natural Alleis sides?
Also reposting my response to the other thread.

1. Usually giving everyone a couple days to complete their turns helps. With the amount of stuff to track and change as the turns pass, in the end the GM will need almost as much time making the changes to his data as the players need placing their orders.
2. Traditionally, if a GM bails, that kinda kills the game. If a player goes inactive for a week or more their turn is put on autopilot. They keep getting income, continue any standing orders (like a scout told to explore a forest will continue to do so), and upgrading the city when feasible. But no offensive moves (unless an attack order was given ebfore the player's absence), no making new cities, and no popping units (unless popping orders had been planned out a few turns in advance.)
3. I really like the idea that a player can start as a barbarian side with mercenary units. Also possibly have a GM who handles NPC sides and Natural Allies.
4. We mostly communicate with the site messaging system.
5. I agree with the 1 GM per 2-3 players.
6. I'd be willing to help make excel documents tracking the information on each side. Including cities (their names, level, location, etc), characters, unit list, assets, etc.

[thetobias]

Soooo this'll probably mean I'll be stuck with GM-duties

I've set up a forum to run the game from. This will allow for clearer discussion between GMs, also: clearer ways to issue orders.

http://newerf.ephpbb.com/index.htm
Also: I've called the game: "New Erf", why? You'll find out :ninja:

Anyone interested to become a Titan (eg. GM should register to this forum and drop me a pb to be allowed into the city of heroes.

Also: I'll probably make a site via google sites and add the forum to it. But that's for another time

EDIT: Also in response to the previous post:

I'm in as a GM/Bookkeeper or a player, possibly a GM that runs the NPC/Natural Alleis sides?
Also reposting my response to the other thread.

Awesome: drop me a pm on the newerf forum You'll be bookkeeper in charge of NPC/natural allies/Magic Kingdom (also: probably one side)

1. Usually giving everyone a couple days to complete their turns helps. With the amount of stuff to track and change as the turns pass, in the end the GM will need almost as much time making the changes to his data as the players need placing their orders.

I dunno how long every turn will take, but we will probably find out a good time while playing innit?

2. Traditionally, if a GM bails, that kinda kills the game. If a player goes inactive for a week or more their turn is put on autopilot. They keep getting income, continue any standing orders (like a scout told to explore a forest will continue to do so), and upgrading the city when feasible. But no offensive moves (unless an attack order was given ebfore the player's absence), no making new cities, and no popping units (unless popping orders had been planned out a few turns in advance.)

Ah.. But this I'm trying to cover for. Y'see, if this gets of te ground we'll have a fairly large GM-staff (we count 3 already), and every GM will have access to all of the data necessary to run the game, and have the powers to create new Titans. So if one of us bails there will be a new GM to pick up the slack (hopefully )

Also: players will be autoplayed for something like ten turns after which the side will go neutral and some other player will be allowed to pick up a new side.

3. I really like the idea that a player can start as a barbarian side with mercenary units. Also possibly have a GM who handles NPC sides and Natural Allies.

So do I , and yes, you'll be that GM xD.

4. We mostly communicate with the site messaging system.

This can be streamlined using the message board I created

6. I'd be willing to help make excel documents tracking the information on each side. Including cities (their names, level, location, etc), characters, unit list, assets, etc.

That would be great, make em in google docs and share them to tmdamman[at]gmail[dot]com

[Nihila]

Yes (havent got good rules for it though)

Well, another person trying to create a game based on Kaed's (333) was going to have Tundra have -1 Move (so it costs 2 Move per hex for non-Tundra Capable units) and some damage per turn, so most invading units face enemies with less than full health. A possible drawback that I have thought of (at least for a side based on Tundra) would be that Farm Schmucker production would be reduced heavily on Tundra--so, instead of 150 base Schmuckers, something more like 50.

Still have to try and figure this one out. It will in any case be easier for a gm to manage a barbarian side so it would at least increase the max players.

Maybe barbarian sides would have lower upkeep for their units, and would have the option to forage for rations. Something like that might work.

Edited because I noticed some grammar errors. Sigh. I really should stop obsessing about that kind of thing.

[HerbieRai]

You mean this one? http://www.sourcecodeonline.com/details ... board.html

I hope not, I was assuming the one I got was freeware (cause I didn't pay anything), but then again its not as pretty.

Are we going to use Kaed / Dark Arbiters game as a base and modify it, or are we deigning a whole new system?

Also, how long did it take you guys to get to turn 52 in Dark Arbiters game? If it took a real long time, we may want to decrease character popping time (you guys didn't even get to the 60 turn royal heir mark), or increase the starting resources (ex. three cities and 5 warlords, no casters). the first would cause the game to be a lot bloodier and the second would decrease the startup time.

[Nihila]

Also, how long did it take you guys to get to turn 52 in Dark Arbiters game? If it took a real long time, we may want to decrease character popping time (you guys didn't even get to the 60 turn royal heir mark), or increase the starting resources (ex. three cities and 5 warlords, no casters). the first would cause the game to be a lot bloodier and the second would decrease the startup time.

Between Dark Arbiter opening the thread and Twoy posting to state that the game looked about over, 57 days passed. So, a turn a day, so not really long at all.

And, thetobias, what would the base stats for the Ship units be? Is it the Ships A, B, and C from Kaed's rules?