Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

[Ace]

The interesting part of the story now will be to see what direction GK takes next. Consolidating the side seems to be the smartest move here, but I'm guessing Stanley, Wanda and Parson will all have different ideas.

[gameboy1234]

The only way I see Wanda turning away from Stanley at this juncture is if something happens to make allying with Charlie feasible, an outcome that has been foreshadowed. Wanda wants to join all the Arkentools, and Charlies resources would greatly assist in that.

I could see Parson finding out about the Prediction, and telling Wanda "You dummy, the prediction says brought together, not brought together by attuned user. ANYONE could do it." Then she goes all "well I don't Stanley anymore."

So we'll see but that's what I think could happen.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Poor Dwagons. I bet nobody would ever do a similar thing to Archons. Unless, maybe, they researched Chocolate Lard Cake and the Hannibal Lecter upgrade.

But I think several people here kinda saw this coming- there was an update a while ago where it was mentioned that, because of money trouble, Jetstone had to harvest Sourmanders.

On another note, though- will they be harvesting ALL Dwagons? Wanda seemed to gleefuly fooderize her own, so ... how will the GK troops get out? Rhetorical question- right now, they are committed to conquest. Or, for the sake of argument, lets admit that the possibility somehow exists for a parley that is favorable to GK- but I don't think that is what Parson wants.

Also:

Spoiler: show

Hey I saw a familiar face!



...

Barry isn't very lucky.

You are my new favorite member.

*tacklehugs*
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Baww! Group hug!

[pSycHOtic chICkeN]

I find it highly unlikely that the dwagons gave consent for that maneuver. Stanley is going to be pissed. Parson may be disbanded before he gets his chance with the archons.

[BLANDCorporatio]

I find it highly unlikely that the dwagons gave consent for that maneuver.

Subtle reference in this update maybe?

[Fiendishrabbit]

I've been thinking about the restacking inconsistency, and so far all I can come up with that holds water is either:
a) There was no time to restack (pretty flimsy)
b) Weak types fall faster/Red's can carry heavies (unlikely), or
c) Parson did advise Wanda to restack accordingly, and she is ignoring him so that she'll be assured of decrypting all the most powerful Dwagon units.

Maybe they just didn't want to give away their game?
I mean, Warlords shifting to weaker mounts (there is a reason they were on the more powerful mounts to begin with)? That would be hardcore suspicious.

Also, have we actually seen anyone switch mounts in the air before?

[laman]

[cliche] Long time lurker, first time poster [/cliche]


What is most interesting in this update is Parson thinking about a non-war economy... in which, trade surpasses conquest as the main source of Shmuckers, as the main way of economical expansion...

We add that to the rising costs of warfare, which have been increasing by the presence of the perfect warlord and his utterly destructive tactics... and we have the beginning of Janis' revolution...

[Selexor]

Well this move is certainly a surprise. Looks like we're about to find out what "Food Fight" means after all.

I'm still stumped at what exactly the plan is, though. Like others have noted, the dwagons and hobgobwins won't turn into rations until Gobwin Knob's next turn, so there's no clear benefit to croaking them all. Wanda can't decrypt them while she's still in the airspace, and I have extreme doubt that you can be considered "mounted" if your mount is no longer alive. Which means she's going to drop from her current, rather high, position... and like it was observed on the last discussion thread, no matter what bonuses she's able to give herself, that's going to carry one big damn risk of croaking outright.
Not to mention that Jack carries the same risk... just personally, I want Jack to survive. I like him!
And, also, the Archons and Ossomer are now stranded in the Airspace completely on their own. Not only does it basically screw them, but it makes emptying Spacerock's Airspace very easy for Jetstone now. Which, given the mountable Unipegataurs, gives Slately an easy exit even if the tower falls.

Plus, there's still the issue of taking the tower. If Wanda survives and is able to decrypt the dwagons, I somehow doubt the grounded dwagons will be able to enter the tower. And they can't take off, because then they'd be moving from the Garrison to the Airspace, which takes us back to the original problem. The best I can see is that they'll hold the Garrison and keep Jetstone's remaining ground forces at bay while the rest of the Gobwin Knob forces and the new Decrypted attack the Tower... assuming that the Atrium is, in fact, the only entrance to the tower.
And even if that's possible, taking the tower is going to be a slow and painful grinding session for Gobwin Knob, no matter what kind of ground force they can put together, even if Wanda does survive and start Decrypting. Even if Gobwin Knob can do it, it's going to take them ages and cost a lot of units, and meanwhile the Jetstone leadership and casters have that handy-dandy exit window now that all the dwagons are croaked, and the Archons are defenseless against the Tower Defences.

The only possible advantage I see in this is giving Gobwin Knob a single, synchronised drop that Jetstone won't see coming. But where it might dodge the Tower Defences, it carries the extra, considerable risk of croaking from the higher fall, and resolves none of the other problems. When Parson explains his plan it'll no doubt make much more sense, but at the moment, this update only gives me more questions than the last one did!

[oslecamo2]

On another note, though- will they be harvesting ALL Dwagons? Wanda seemed to gleefuly fooderize her own, so ... how will the GK troops get out? Rhetorical question- right now, they are committed to conquest. Or, for the sake of argument, lets admit that the possibility somehow exists for a parley that is favorable to GK- but I don't think that is what Parson wants.

They don't. Only Wanda and the pliers are top priorities for GK. Jack and high level warlords are right behind on the priority list. Next day Hamster can send some of his "relay" dwagons to pick them up. Everybody else is perfectly expendable.

Mind you, by decrypting the whole of Jetstone forces, when the dust settles GK will be more than able to fortify that city pretty well. Jillian will be long gone, and Charlie clearly doesn't have a hidden archon army nearby, so they can afford to wait some turns.

Also:

Spoiler: show

Hey I saw a familiar face!



...

Barry isn't very lucky.

"What sir? Harvest my own dwagon sir? When I'm in the air sir? You're out of your mind sir?... Yes sir, I remember the volcano event, sir... Right away, sir!"

[Sieggy]

e) is such a stretch that I think we can discount it until we get evidence that contradicts the current status quo (which is all but a 100% guarantee they can do it).

As for d) I have a hard time seeing why the pinks and (especially) the yellows are going to be extra valuable. The yellow's have used their one trick, now that the battle is from the atrium outwards, their acid crap attack is of minimal importance. On the other hand the Reds and Purples attacks are of huge importance (all the Jetstone units are now in the city, meaning they won't disband when they kill Slately, which is great news for GK).

Because in the case of the Yellows, their acidic cwap can be used to seal doorways with an impassible (well, not quickly, anyway) barrier to prevent JS forces from re-entering the Atrium and taking the forces assaulting the tower from behind.

In the case of the Pinks, I suspect they can, to some degree, putty up the openings in the roof and prevent indirect arrow fire. Think of how big you can blow a bubblegum bubble . . .

I think changing riders around can be done off-turn; if you can re-stack, switching riders simply means pulling the mounts up next to one another and jumping over. Jillian has done this several times, now, most recently to consult with Duncan.

Edit - eviler thought - the Pinks could blow bubbles and cover the space between the parapet wall and the roof up on the portico. The archers and casters could clear it, but that would take time, time that Parson desperately needs . . .

[Selexor]

[cliche] Long time lurker, first time poster [/cliche]


What is most interesting in this update is Parson thinking about a non-war economy... in which, trade surpasses conquest as the main source of Shmuckers, as the main way of economical expansion...

We add that to the rising costs of warfare, which have been increasing by the presence of the perfect warlord and his utterly destructive tactics... and we have the beginning of Janis' revolution...

Indeed. Slaughtering one large, domesicated creature in order to feed several intelligent humanoid creatures? In other words, "farming". And thanks to Sizemore, we know that some food is grown and not popped - specifically, the delicious gray mushrooms that the Hippiemancers grow. Combine the two, and you've got the basics for a self-sustaining side, with all the Income from a city going straight into the treasury.

[joosy]

Plus, there's still the issue of taking the tower.

If they have enough purple and reds, they can just raze the tower. It will be one more thing Stanley can complain about (his precious dwagons are now decrypted and answer to Wanda if not croaked outright, a ton of schmuckers were spent to upgrade Parson and the Hobgobwins, etc. ) That is assuming that razing the tower means that they will have to rebuild Jetstone vs. just repair and they will lose the ability to pop whatever Jetstone can at a level 5 city.


Re: The Archons and Ossomer I believe they can retreat to over the outer walls outside the reach of the tower archers and defenses. Jetstone will have to redeploy their troops there to reach them .. which they may not be able to do given events in the atrium.

[dirocyn]

Mind you, by decrypting the whole of Jetstone forces, when the dust settles GK will be more than able to fortify that city pretty well. Jillian will be long gone, and Charlie clearly doesn't have a hidden archon army nearby, so they can afford to wait some turns.

I doubt if Jillian really is long gone. Those Megalos have huge movement, and it's still her turn. She was waffling about whether to go back to Jetstone, and I think she will. If she does come back, those few archons and Ossomer (all that's left in airspace) are just toast, and GK's main force, now on the ground, can't attack the airspace.

GK is about to take heavy losses on the ground, too--remember Jetstone has a dollamancer and a huge stock of cloth golems that'll be that much more powerful, and probably not decryptable. When a cloth golem fights a decrypted dwagon, Gobwin Knob gets weaker.

[Selexor]

Plus, there's still the issue of taking the tower.

If they have enough purple and reds, they can just raze the tower. It will be one more thing Stanley can complain about (his precious dwagons are now decrypted and answer to Wanda if not croaked outright, a ton of schmuckers were spent to upgrade Parson and the Hobgobwins, etc. ) That is assuming that razing the tower means that they will have to rebuild Jetstone vs. just repair and they will lose the ability to pop whatever Jetstone can at a level 5 city.

Mmm, good point! I had not considered this. If Wanda can decrypt the dwagons, this is a pretty simple option to take the tower and force Jetstone's leadership to flee.

Re: The Archons and Ossomer I believe they can retreat to over the outer walls outside the reach of the tower archers and defenses. Jetstone will have to redeploy their troops there to reach them .. which they may not be able to do given events in the atrium.

No dice here, alas. The Outer Walls are a seperate zone, so they can't run there... and there is nowhere inside the Airspace where you're out of range of the Tower. Ossomer and the Archons cannot escape, unless Parson's able to pull a second Zone-Crossing exploit out of his butt, which I think is a big ask even for him. I'm guessing if the tower falls, we can expect them to be wiped out entirely with the last of the Tower's strength, giving the Royals (and Casters, if possible) a chance to fly the boop out of there. At least they'll get Charlie's bounty, which means Jetstone will have enough schmuckers to keep its other cities alive for a while, at least.

[gatherer818]

I find it highly unlikely that the dwagons gave consent for that maneuver.

Subtle reference in this update maybe?

I'm offically very disturbed. Why would you do that to me?

No dice here, alas. The Outer Walls are a seperate zone, so they can't run there... and there is nowhere inside the Airspace where you're out of range of the Tower. Ossomer and the Archons cannot escape, unless Parson's able to pull a second Zone-Crossing exploit out of his butt, which I think is a big ask even for him. I'm guessing if the tower falls, we can expect them to be wiped out entirely with the last of the Tower's strength, giving the Royals (and Casters, if possible) a chance to fly the boop out of there. At least they'll get Charlie's bounty, which means Jetstone will have enough schmuckers to keep its other cities alive for a while, at least.

A previous update (from Jack's point of view, I think - I'll look for it) said that the Tower Defenses could reach either zone, but that the ARCHERS could not. Likely not a perfect quote, as from memory: "All we can do now is choose to hover over the Garrison or the Outer Walls, which really only decides WHICH archers can hit us." And obviously, JS could just redeploy between zones anyway. When they held the Atrium. Tram just blew the Tower Defenses, keeping the archers in reserve... now, if any GK forces which can't/don't land/fall choose to hover over the walls instead, the archers are rendered effectively useless.

*goes to find that update*

EDIT: found it!

Distance would not save them. The tower could strike any unit in the city's airspace. Within the airspace, they could only choose to deploy their stacks over the outer walls or the garrison. This cost no move, but its only effect was to determine which archers could hit them. And on whose heads their corpses would fall, Jack supposed. But of course, Decrypted leave no corpses. Hm.

Since only the Courtyard (Atrium here) borders the Outer Walls, once the Atrium is contested, the Archers in the Tower shouldn't be able to redeploy to the Outer Walls without fighting their way through the Atrium.

[Trotsky]

I'm confused. Why does he need to harvest them? Why not let the tower kill them? They'll fall anyway, and they can do some damage before they die. Is there something else I've missed? Parson can't be that worried about tower units gaining a few levels...

Arrows arc from above. Wanda is sitting above her dragon. She is likely to be riddled with arrows at least, and croaked at worst, before her mount dies due to enemy action. This way, she has NO arrows in her. Also, other than the (now mostly dead) yellows they COULDN'T do any damage from the airspace. That was the entire problem from the beginning.

Do dwagons count as heavy units? You could have some of the dwagons mount other dwagons... i.e. heavy unit riding a flying mount falls. That way you can get the riderless dwagons to the ground, and without killing them (maybe).

But haven't we been assuming that you have to be a knight class unit or commander to ride a mount (or maybe just I have been)? At any rate, it seems likely that a mount is incapable of mounting another mount (but then where do baby mounts come from?). Though, if Knights can all ride mounts and there were unmounted dwagons, then the Archons could just mount and harvest the empty dwagons.

I've been thinking about the restacking inconsistency, and so far all I can come up with that holds water is either:
a) There was no time to restack (pretty flimsy)
b) Weak types fall faster/Red's can carry heavies (unlikely), or
c) Parson did advise Wanda to restack accordingly, and she is ignoring him so that she'll be assured of decrypting all the most powerful Dwagon units.

d) The future steps of the plan require certain dragons unique abilities, so keeping them alive now ensures future availability.

e) Re-stacking may be done off-turn.. changing mounts may only be done on the ground or in combat, though? (Or maybe what the barbarian did to change mounts had a chance of failure that was just fairly low for her due to her high level?)

e) is such a stretch that I think we can discount it until we get evidence that contradicts the current status quo (which is all but a 100% guarantee they can do it).

About E (which I actually think is the most likely. How would you get from one dwagon to another? You would have to jump.), Jillian jumped off a mount and had a second one catch her. I'm not sure having the hobgobwins and other units jumping around from mount to mount would be subtle enough to go unnoticed and unquestioned.

... it carries the extra, considerable risk of croaking from the higher fall,...

Actually, if you look at the dead dwagons, most of their riders are holding on for dear life. Don't dead dwagons fall slowly upon death (I thought I remembered that happening, but I can't find the comic)? That might have the same effect as the so-called banana exploit.

[Wakky]

Several people have posted about the idea of Wanda turning against Stanley and forming her own side. However, if you think about it it simply will not happen.

For one, Wanda's life-long ambition has been to gather all of the the Arkentools. I think she actually believes the religion of Toolism. For two, people who are attuned to the Arkentools appear to be very rare. Even if she believes Stanley to be a complete fool she still needs Stanley for his attuned ability to control Dwagons. Offing Stanley would seriously weaken her side.

It's possible that Wanda will eventually betray Stanley, but not until she's gathered all the other Arkentools. To do it beforehand would be utterly stupid.

[DevilDan]

Wanda believes in faith, not in Toolism, despite what Ansom and other decrypted espouse.

[Kizmet]

Amazing art work. The art is always great... but the particular selection of dwagon colors, riders, pre and post harvest, etc really makes this stand out for a text update. Kudos.

[╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛]

Wanda believes in faith, not in Toolism, despite what Ansom and other decrypted espouse.

I think she believe in fate...