Book 2 – Parson’s Klog 003

[╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛]

Crackpot theory number 12:

This plan works. Wanda decrypts the dragons, and takes the city. And then uses the city as a capital site to start a new side, with the entire army (including the now decrypted dragons) obeying all of her orders.

I believe this theory have been mentionned quite a few times already and often met the same argument against it:

It wouldn't suit well the whole "Fate wants all tool united" dogma very well...

Wanda is fully able to manipulate Stanley (so she doesn't need her own side), starting her own side would probably only make her an easier target for her detractor.

We don't even know if non-heir can start their own sides.

I can think of at least one sequence of events that would plausibly lead to Wanda turning:

Charlie (via thinkagram): "Wanda! Congratulations! I understand you want all the tools united on one side. Let me make you an offer: I get Jillian to come back, bringing Ansom and that turnamancer, which you can use on Parson. In exchange, I just want you to kill and decrypt Jillian. That way, you get them both under your thumb where they belong. Also, don't tell anyone about our agreement, and I'll make sure the rest of erfworld lines up for you to decrypt them, one by one. Even Stanley, so the hammer will be back on your side in no time."

Charlie (via thinkagram): "Jillian! I hate you! Thanks to you, Jetstone did fall, and now Wanda is in charge there. Go see her and say hello."

Charlie (via thinkagram): "Tramennis! I'm so sorry you didn't listen to me, but I've got a job to keep you financed for now, so you can survive as a barbarian, and maybe retake your kingdom. I want to employ your diplomatic skills to get *everyone* to pile onto Wanda, all at once. This nonsense has gone on long enough, and she's a danger to us all. She even killed and decrypted Jillian, when Jillian showed up under a flag of truce. That was probably Parson's idea, so we'd better let my angels take care of him..."


I'm not saying this *will* happen, but I think it's far from certain that Wanda's own motivations couldn't be used to turn her, especially if Charlie made the case that the dish is more powerful than the hammer, and therefore they had a better chance of uniting the tools together, than apart.

I'm not sure if it adress at all the point "We don't even know if non-heir can start their own sides"...

Nor am I sure it would still make any sense to start her own side even if she could (after a battle that may cost a large part of her army in a die killing-decrypt- die killing-decrypt routine). I can hardly see any way in which it would not be nigh suicidal to start her own side (assuming she could) even with Parson to do the strategy. Plus, I'm not sure she would like the possibility of having a decrypted Stanley that can't use the hammer anymore (it's hypothetical, much in the same way we don't know if decrypted caster can still cast spells).

BUT I will address your last line: ” but I think it's far from certain that Wanda's own motivations couldn't be used to turn her” that I could agree with. I could totaly see Wanda turning for that mysterious bastard of a neutral side known as Charlescomm (especially if she can manage to bring Parson with him)... After all, it would still be a 2/1 tool alliance. The thing is, it would surely mess with said side “neutrality”. But Charlie and Wanda would be a pretty badass team and since the big flaw of the archon seem to be their high upkeep cost, you can see how the plier could improve Charlie’s army and remove any possible limit to his fleet of archons.

But overall, this direction seems to imply a strange path made of a lot of out of character actions, I don’t think will see anything like that without quite a few major twist, but guess what? This comic is about twist so who know?

By the way nht, I like the way you imagine improbable scenario, would you mind to tell me what it would take for Stanley to decide to pop an heir? just to laugh a bit...

[Ace]

Well this move is certainly a surprise. Looks like we're about to find out what "Food Fight" means after all.

I'm still stumped at what exactly the plan is, though. Like others have noted, the dwagons and hobgobwins won't turn into rations until Gobwin Knob's next turn, so there's no clear benefit to croaking them all. Wanda can't decrypt them while she's still in the airspace, and I have extreme doubt that you can be considered "mounted" if your mount is no longer alive. Which means she's going to drop from her current, rather high, position... and like it was observed on the last discussion thread, no matter what bonuses she's able to give herself, that's going to carry one big damn risk of croaking outright.
Not to mention that Jack carries the same risk... just personally, I want Jack to survive. I like him!
And, also, the Archons and Ossomer are now stranded in the Airspace completely on their own. Not only does it basically screw them, but it makes emptying Spacerock's Airspace very easy for Jetstone now. Which, given the mountable Unipegataurs, gives Slately an easy exit even if the tower falls.

Plus, there's still the issue of taking the tower. If Wanda survives and is able to decrypt the dwagons, I somehow doubt the grounded dwagons will be able to enter the tower. And they can't take off, because then they'd be moving from the Garrison to the Airspace, which takes us back to the original problem. The best I can see is that they'll hold the Garrison and keep Jetstone's remaining ground forces at bay while the rest of the Gobwin Knob forces and the new Decrypted attack the Tower... assuming that the Atrium is, in fact, the only entrance to the tower.
And even if that's possible, taking the tower is going to be a slow and painful grinding session for Gobwin Knob, no matter what kind of ground force they can put together, even if Wanda does survive and start Decrypting. Even if Gobwin Knob can do it, it's going to take them ages and cost a lot of units, and meanwhile the Jetstone leadership and casters have that handy-dandy exit window now that all the dwagons are croaked, and the Archons are defenseless against the Tower Defences.

The only possible advantage I see in this is giving Gobwin Knob a single, synchronised drop that Jetstone won't see coming. But where it might dodge the Tower Defences, it carries the extra, considerable risk of croaking from the higher fall, and resolves none of the other problems. When Parson explains his plan it'll no doubt make much more sense, but at the moment, this update only gives me more questions than the last one did!

What a shock. Sexlor is stumped... maybe if he'd read any of the previous posts, he'd have realised what the plan is, even if he couldn't figure it out himself.

[Ace]

Mind you, by decrypting the whole of Jetstone forces, when the dust settles GK will be more than able to fortify that city pretty well. Jillian will be long gone, and Charlie clearly doesn't have a hidden archon army nearby, so they can afford to wait some turns.

I doubt if Jillian really is long gone. Those Megalos have huge movement, and it's still her turn. She was waffling about whether to go back to Jetstone, and I think she will. If she does come back, those few archons and Ossomer (all that's left in airspace) are just toast, and GK's main force, now on the ground, can't attack the airspace.

GK is about to take heavy losses on the ground, too--remember Jetstone has a dollamancer and a huge stock of cloth golems that'll be that much more powerful, and probably not decryptable. When a cloth golem fights a decrypted dwagon, Gobwin Knob gets weaker.

You couldn't have misread things more. Jillian is gone. There's no way for her to return at this stage, for logic or narrative purposes.

[Krennson]

I still want to know whether or not you can harvest an already decrypted unit, thus providing an infinite loop of units.... and we don't yet know whether or not having wanda decrypt harvested dragons means the dragons will disappear into rations on the next turn... i wish we could see more of parson's science experiments, this could be very useful information

[Ace]

People do not read.
I've been around since half of page one and the same questions keep getting asked and same answers keep being given but who takes the time to read earlier pages?
I think it's time for me to let this thread go because I'll likely try to punch in the mouth the next person questioning why the Dwagons were harvested.
And there will be another.

[Trotsky]

People do not read.
I've been around since half of page one and the same questions keep getting asked and same answers keep being given but who takes the time to read earlier pages?
I think it's time for me to let this thread go because I'll likely try to punch in the mouth the next person questioning why the Dwagons were harvested.
And there will be another.

And I'm still waiting for my punch in the mouth from earlier.

[Ace]

As for d) I have a hard time seeing why the pinks and (especially) the yellows are going to be extra valuable. The yellow's have used their one trick, now that the battle is from the atrium outwards, their acid crap attack is of minimal importance. On the other hand the Reds and Purples attacks are of huge importance (all the Jetstone units are now in the city, meaning they won't disband when they kill Slately, which is great news for GK).

Given the update here:

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -04-03.png

I think the most reasonable explanation assumes as a premise that they were clearly planning for absorbing the attack and a relatively standard battle plan, which would put the hobs on the weaker dwagons (and warlords on stronger). Once Parson gave his plan, either:

1) They didn't want to remount again so close to the battle commencing, out of fear they would tip off the enemy that something was up; or

2) They just forgot. As any gamer of a complex game can tell you (and as you probably know yourself), having a master plan is one thing, executing on every single fiddly little piece of the plan is another thing. I play some very complex games, and even though I usually do pretty well at them, I am always kicking myself for one nuance or another that I could have enacted, but either didn't see in time or forgot about.

Pretty lame explanation though... I mean, they were even under a baffle before, and Parson explained it sometime ago... they could have just restacked while pulling back from the tower as instructed. I guess these could be extra strong yellows and pinks, but even that doesn't make much sense (they need the Red and Purple Dwagons more)

[teratorn]

I still want to know whether or not you can harvest an already decrypted unit, thus providing an infinite loop of units....

I'd say you can't. Decrypted don't leave bodies, just ash. Although the ration forming process is a formality I'd say it implies that the unit should be able to be transformed into "meat" that is, a dead body.

[fehler]

Wonderful. Here's what I expect from the next update:

Ossamer rushes and catches Wanda from falling. Wanda orders him to let her drop, but Ossamer doesn't understand. Then either Wanda dusts him with the pliers or Parson orders his disbandment himself, and griefs over his decision.

And Tramennis thinks Parson is havign a hissy-fit, and a person having a hissy-fit would be spiteful enough to kill all their own units to prevent Jetstone from leveling. Poor, poor Tramennis.

[Krennson]

I still want to know whether or not you can harvest an already decrypted unit, thus providing an infinite loop of units....

I'd say you can't. Decrypted don't leave bodies, just ash. Although the ration forming process is a formality I'd say it implies that the unit should be able to be transformed into "meat" that is, a dead body.

well, that's my point. if you KILL a decrypted, it turns into ash so that it can't be raised again. presumably, mere 'uncroaked' have the same feature.

But except for the ash and the loyalty to wanda, a decrypted is exactly the same as a living unit... so maybe, just maybe, if you 'harvest' a decrypted unit BEFORE it dies a violent death, it WILL leave a body in THAT situation. of course, in order for there to be even a prayer of game balance, that exploit should only exist if there is a drawback, such as any harvested unit dissapears at the beginning of next turn, whether it's been decrypted or not.

[FaustiiGoethe]

I still want to know whether or not you can harvest an already decrypted unit, thus providing an infinite loop of units....

I'd say you can't. Decrypted don't leave bodies, just ash. Although the ration forming process is a formality I'd say it implies that the unit should be able to be transformed into "meat" that is, a dead body.

well, that's my point. if you KILL a decrypted, it turns into ash so that it can't be raised again. presumably, mere 'uncroaked' have the same feature.

But except for the ash and the loyalty to wanda, a decrypted is exactly the same as a living unit... so maybe, just maybe, if you 'harvest' a decrypted unit BEFORE it dies a violent death, it WILL leave a body in THAT situation. of course, in order for there to be even a prayer of game balance, that exploit should only exist if there is a drawback, such as any harvested unit dissapears at the beginning of next turn, whether it's been decrypted or not.

I don't think the titans will leave that kind of bug in the game .

I mean. Exists sploits in erfworld, but they are hard to find. Decrypted unlimted popeable rations ? It's kinda lame...

[Trotsky]

of course, in order for there to be even a prayer of game balance, that exploit should only exist if there is a drawback, such as any harvested unit dissapears at the beginning of next turn, whether it's been decrypted or not.

Game balance? BLASPHEME!

[joosy]

Off-topic.. I wonder if harvesting a dwagon counts as experience toward levelling? If so, Parson may use any extra dwagons that Stanley brings in that are impractical to pay the upkeep for (or any heavy unit that is cheap to pop) and boom - cheap rations for existing units and power levelling!

[joosy]

if you KILL a decrypted, it turns into ash so that it can't be raised again. presumably, mere 'uncroaked' have the same feature.

But except for the ash and the loyalty to wanda, a decrypted is exactly the same as a living unit... so maybe, just maybe, if you 'harvest' a decrypted unit BEFORE it dies a violent death, it WILL leave a body in THAT situation. of course, in order for there to be even a prayer of game balance, that exploit should only exist if there is a drawback, such as any harvested unit dissapears at the beginning of next turn, whether it's been decrypted or not.

I think its been shown that if you croak a decrypted unit it becomes dust; nothing to redecrypt or pop into rations. Would be fun to test though!

[Ace]

If the decrypted all turn to rations after the turn, then it's going to be unforgivable that they didn't restack, so that HG's were riding all the best Dwagons...

[BLANDCorporatio]

Off-topic.. I wonder if harvesting a dwagon counts as experience toward levelling? If so, Parson may use any extra dwagons that Stanley brings in that are impractical to pay the upkeep for (or any heavy unit that is cheap to pop) and boom - cheap rations for existing units and power levelling!

That would be a horribly broken mechanic and completely imbalanced.

Therefore, it's totally plausible.

if you KILL a decrypted, it turns into ash so that it can't be raised again. presumably, mere 'uncroaked' have the same feature.

But except for the ash and the loyalty to wanda, a decrypted is exactly the same as a living unit... so maybe, just maybe, if you 'harvest' a decrypted unit BEFORE it dies a violent death, it WILL leave a body in THAT situation. of course, in order for there to be even a prayer of game balance, that exploit should only exist if there is a drawback, such as any harvested unit dissapears at the beginning of next turn, whether it's been decrypted or not.

I think its been shown that if you croak a decrypted unit it becomes dust; nothing to redecrypt or pop into rations. Would be fun to test though!

The decrypted dust can also be rations ... of a different kind. See the archon incident.

[falldowngoboom]

I agree that the stronger "dwagons" could probably carry a heavy and that is why the Hobs are on the weaker types. That makes the most sense. Also I doubt harvesting gives exp. If it did, Tram would have noticed it when harvesting Sourmanders.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Also I doubt harvesting gives exp. If it did, Tram would have noticed it when harvesting Sourmanders.

Very good catch.

You party pooper you.

[Mortos]

I had to register on the forums just to discuss this strip.

See, if I understand it, in order to capture a city, you need to capture it's garrison (mentioned in an earlier strip).
Units can be promoted to heavy units on other sides' turns.
Heavy units require lots of support (food), not usually available inside other sides' cities.

So I think if there is a decryption hack here, it's not the point of the stratagem, though perhaps helpful. The real point is that at the start of gobwin knobs turn, they'll have a large number of heavy units in the enemy's decimated garrison, each with a full ration of food, and with warlord bonuses from being led by both wanda and parson (who'll have snuck into their hex using the portal tunnel system through the magic kingdom)

[Sieggy]

The ration part of the plan is utterly immaterial to the battleplan. It may become a factor at some point in the far, distant (next book) future, but at the moment, all that matters is that the Dwagons can all be single-shotted by their riders. "OK, everybody, on the count of three 1 - 2 - BOOM!" and every Dwagon not being ridden by a Hobbo is now croaked, and on tomorrow's menu. However, they'll be decrypted in a matter of minutes, so the 'menu' part doesn't matter. Though it really will be interesting as hell tomorrow morning to see what happens to the remaining decrypted ones . . . Z-rats!

All the Dwagons drop simultaneously into the Atrium with their riders, some of who will be croaked, some injused, and some damned lucky. The croaked get decrypted. The injured get croaked, THEN decrypted or healed depending on how badly hurt they are. Once everyone is up & running again, they seize control of the Atrium, which gives them the ability to assault the Tower. Hilarity ensues.

OK, so is the plan clear NOW?