oslecamo2 wrote:So forcing your oponent to end the turn is all fair and square, but skydiving is stinky cheese? This reader disagrees with that vision.
Not arguing fairness....magic is part and parcel of the gameworld. Movement abuses are not. Kingsworld was not an exploit but a result of a caster linkup - a known game mechanic that is seen as powerful.
Movement has just a few rules. Magic is divided in more than a dozen of schools each with dozens of effects and then you can combine them in bi and tri links for titans-know how much more effects. It's ridiculous to claim that Trems knows all possible magic combinations, but never wondered what can be do with movement rules.
In this case, all Tram has to know is one thing....off turn movement is forbidden/impossible/can't be done. He's right. And Parson isn't going to move his forces.
He's going to harvest them for food. Exploit....easily overlooked.
It would matter if they aimed at Wanda first.
As I said...JSs only hope was to shoot GK down before Parson became CW. After that, he took steps to make that difficult.
Explain me, [i] if Trems and the other warlord had time to look trough the millions things Erf magic can do, would it kill them to look over the dozen or so possible combinations from movement?[/
Imagine a rulebook for Erfworld. Look up the movement section. You want to know what I think it'll tell you about off turn movement? That it can't be done. Parson isn't moving his forces...hes exploiting several different mechanics in order to bypass what appears to be a know physical rule....you can't move off turn; but you can harvest your mounts for food. Tram shouldn't be considering the movement rules at all...he needs to be considering the logisitics rules and cross referencing them with both falling and zone boundaries.
And what do you mean...."if Trems and the other warlord had time to look trough the millions things Erf magic can do"? They know Magic can do powerful things...they know GK isn't in a position to exploit any of those.
Conclusion is, since Trems doesn't properly know how movement works, he knows even less of how magic works. So be it harvesting-falling or time-stoping, they're all unpredictable moves as far as JS cares.
Tram very likely does know how movement works. And falling and harvesting. He probably ahs a far better understanding of magic than Parson does as well.
Parson, however, is trying to game the system. Tram is not. Parson is looking for ways around Erfworld rules. Tram accepts them just as we accept the Law of Gravity.
Oberon wrote:And here we have Kyrt also using his readers information to defend Tram from having to worry about a trimancer link on the part of GK."
With two casters available in hex? Neither a thinkamancer? The big questions here are 1: Is a thinkamancer needed? Thinkamancers after all, are what streamline the other casters thoughts and casting processes ( the Thinkamancer's function was something like "cognitive copilot," managing the other caster's mental functions, focusing his attention and boosting his energy to achieve better results than the caster could alone.) and would almost certainly be needed for Trimancy links and 2: its range - was Charlie able to be absent because he had an Arkentool? Can such links cross zone boundaries? Do they affect spell ranges?
Thinkamancers are needed. There are none in the hex and GKs casters aren't linked.
That was an "impossible" event that just happened, right next to the Jetstone King.
And who JS likely knew was linked....since it appears the King and Charlie spoke.
Why not be concerned about that possibility?
Because, as far as the events in story are concerned, Jillian is a wild card. She may or may not return. But she isn't there now.
And rather than be at all concerned that the situation may change yet again, Tram is casually insulting the people he should be earnestly bargaining with.
If Jillian returns...and theres no reason for Tram to expect her...the situation may indeed change. It'd be easier to wipe GK out. And Trams style has been covered before. As pointed out he would "very much like his brothers back". But again, while theres rooms to negotiate, the simple fact is that he is in an apparently dominant position and hes dictating terms. He is probing Ossomer and his reactions, he is determining if turning him is possible or likely, he is getting information on Parson. He isn't doing a "lets be equals" gig.
He was speaking with Parson.
Looked like Ossomer to me.
If Tram had opened with "Listen, brother. I want to offer GK an alliance. Shall we discuss terms?", well, Parson may have gone ahead with the plan, or he may have accepted a way out that didn't require gambling everything on the chance of Wanda dying from a fall. And the speculation about that could occupy another 22 pages.
And perhaps five minutes of talking with Ossomer would have had them reach that point. After all, its not like GK can DO anything. They can't move.
I think you are placing WAY too much emphasis on what is, in Trams eyes, a minor attack that ultimately does little if any harm to his city and troops. Its is JSs turn...it doesn't matter how long it takes Tram to reach the point he wants to ultimately get to. GK can't move, escape or fight and if GK wants to force the destruction of their only viable means of attack, no matter how limited, in the current situation, so be it.
Tram has priorities which he wants to address...we know this. He wants his brothers back. He wants to take advantage of Charlies deal. He wants JS safe. He wants to secure his sides future. And so on.
And you think hes stupid because his opening dialogue seem to be probes to test his brothers loyalty to GK and to get info about Parson instead of a "lets get down to it right now, we've no time to waste on pleasantries". That he should keep his opinion of GK and Stanley a secret despite the fact Ossomer knows him and his views quite well? That he should crawl to GK begging for an Alliance or treaty?
I disagree. Ossomer knows him well. Hiding his opinions is thus a futile gesture. Opening with probes to determine Ossomers loyalty to GK and gain info on Parson..who he'll probably eventually have to talk to directly is also a decent tactic because it means he won't be going in fully blind or reliant on Charlies info when he speaks with the warlord he really needs to speak with. And he has, in his eyes, all the time he needs because his turn likely won't end prematurely.
So what if Parson decides to bomb the atrium? Cities can be repaired and the troops are largely expendable. Thats what they are for and he was already looking to disband some. Its gains GK absolutely nothing doing so. Bombing the tower made sense...there are archers there and that was wheer the parley was to be held. Bombing the atrium? Attacking the only target he can while he can even while it gains him nothing?
Lamech wrote: did you miss the update were tram said GK could eliminate the RCC, even without the dwagons and what not?
And read by many as "could"...not "will". The current events will weaken GK if JS wipes the strike force out. They'll lose a powerful strike force, Wanda, Jack, several warlords and the Pliers. But that doesn't mean Tram necessarily sees GKs victory as still assured...just that the outcome will be in much more doubt.
Basically we have Jetstone offering to trade a few dwagons and Jack for everything that Jetstone has. That deal is clearly unbalanced.
What we have is JS offering to trade a peace for large elements of GKs strike force. The alternative is a war GK could very well lose (and which JS can't truly afford). Returning GKs forces to it largely intact keeps them relatively powerful, and secures a border against them.
It is a reasonable starting offer.