Summer Updates - 007

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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby Kender Wizard » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:24 pm

If someone could die from a lack of surprise... I don't think that, even if Parson saw all of this, that he would be amused. I imagine that he watched with a small sinking feeling that he was not only going to be ordered to the genocide (and summary decrypting) of thousands, but that it will be done under the watchful supervision of someone who nearly killed both himself and a sizable portion of his air force during a victory celebration. You know, the 'that would be really funny if it didn't mean that I am totally screwed' reaction.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby Doktor Jones » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:07 am

Housellama wrote:Speaking of... I'd be willing to bet Charlie's going to be PISSED when he finds out that Parson Decrypted his Archons. No one else has used them, and Charlie seems pretty possessive of them. I'm thinking this is not going to go over well.


Ermmm, I don't recall Parson ordering Wanda to decrypt them... in fact, I think until maybe 2-3 updates ago, Parson was still in shock from the miniature apocalypse he initiated. Rather, I think Wanda is more like a little kid that's just been given a brand new airsoft gun and is now going around shooting everything that moves... except... she's shooting everything that doesn't move... or something :P

valce wrote:Also, has anybody on Erfworld actually met Charlie? Do they know for certain that Charlie is a 'he'? Or even a humanoid? For all we know, Charlie could be a female golden retriever puppy that happened to dig up the Arkendish one day and gained, among other things, preternatural intelligence :P [Unlikely...]


Well I think his handle (CharlsNChrg) precludes him being female. Of course, beyond that, I would agree that his race, appearance, stats, and everything else are a complete mystery.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby Anton Gaist » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:35 am

Doktor Jones wrote:
valce wrote:Also, has anybody on Erfworld actually met Charlie? Do they know for certain that Charlie is a 'he'? Or even a humanoid? For all we know, Charlie could be a female golden retriever puppy that happened to dig up the Arkendish one day and gained, among other things, preternatural intelligence :P [Unlikely...]


Well I think his handle (CharlsNChrg) precludes him being female. Of course, beyond that, I would agree that his race, appearance, stats, and everything else are a complete mystery.


I'm guessing he won't be that happy about his decrypted archons, and since Parson is the Chief Warlord, it would be logical to assume he was involved in their decrypting. And if he gets mad, what I'm thinking is, Charles is loaded. What's to keep him from summoning his own Perfect Warlord? That spell is, after all, "only" 500,000 shmuckers. He could very well afford to summon Parson's match.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby moose o death » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:48 am

wanda has already rezzed archons prior to decryption, i think you'll find charlie isn't all that attached to them. just the regular overlord/warlord to unit relationship.

i do agree charlie could be anything. i read the whole comic last night but don't recall anyone ever saying charlie was his own overlord though. the "side" is called charlescomm which does imply it heavily. but he culd just as easily be a merc arm for another side again.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby gameboy1234 » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:07 am

moose o death wrote:don't recall anyone ever saying charlie was his own overlord though. the "side" is called charlescomm which does imply it heavily. but he culd just as easily be a merc arm for another side again.


This is a good point. While I'm sure Charlie is the overlord of Charlescomm, Charlescomm could be one tribe in some other coalition independent of Royal Crown. Charlie may have natural allies we don't know about yet.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby moose o death » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:46 am

it also seems non-royal overlords are targeted if they get too powerful. that charlie isn't being attacked means he's either a royal. not very powerful. already fought and wont too often, or not an overlord at all. should we flip a coin? is it an overlooked plothole? or maybe charlie actually isn't an overlord. wanda is an attuned caster and it's likely charlie was a thinkamancer before attuning. we can't be sure casters can be overlords just yet nothing to promote such a thing has been mentioned. casters are rare and often arent put into battle situations.

also you don't pop a caster heir you pop an heir, or you (theoretically) pop a caster. although i think we can all assume pot luck applies in both situations as to what you get as i doubt faq wanted a croakamancer, and the likelihood the plaid tribe wanted a dirtamancer isn't high.

still once again we have baseless speculation to keep us compnay until the 008 update (does this imply we can expect more than 100 updates?)
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby Darkside007 » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:39 am

moose o death wrote:wanda has already rezzed archons prior to decryption, i think you'll find charlie isn't all that attached to them. just the regular overlord/warlord to unit relationship.


I don't think uncroaking them counts, they didn't seem to keep any of their special attributes outside of flight when they were uncroaked. At least, they didn't use them to protect Wanda from Ansom.

He may very well be pissed that someone else has Archons now, and that paticular someone else also has additional heavy air.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby moose o death » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:42 am

charlie doesn't strike me as the emotional type. all through the conflict charlescomm had focussed on parson and his mathamancy tool/ability. never really cared what was happening to his units or the royalist units either.

wanda charging to finish ansom with ex-archon's in tow didn't cause any rise. and they only interfered because ansom signed a contract that would guarentee parson's or at least the gauntlets capture. so many people consider wanda's new ability to be overpowered and making her unstoppable but those units were killed by an inferior force in a battle featuring 25:1 odds.

wanda has an advantage right now, but those guys wont last long as stanley spreads GK forces out like ripples across all his old cities. parson might try to control some of those battles but the forces will dwindle leaving wanda with decrypting what few units she has the move to get to. i doubt charlie is even mildly bothered she has 28 of his potentially infinite supply. he may produce another 56 before the next battle in erf even starts.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby SteveMB » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:08 am

moose o death wrote:i doubt charlie is even mildly bothered she has 28 of his potentially infinite supply. he may produce another 56 before the next battle in erf even starts.

I doubt that he has a "potentially infinite supply" of such powerful units -- for one thing, if he was that powerful he could just make everybody pay him protection money. It's possible that the Archons he lost in this debacle were a big enough fraction of Charlie's total forces to hurt him seriously.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby Binty » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:26 am

moose o death wrote: also you don't pop a caster heir you pop an heir, or you (theoretically) pop a caster. although i think we can all assume pot luck applies in both situations as to what you get as i doubt faq wanted a croakamancer, and the likelihood the plaid tribe wanted a dirtamancer isn't high.


FAQ had a predictamancer and foolamancer combo, perfect to maintain their hidden situation. Very lucky or popped to order?

Wanda is a generalist. Her interest is in Croakmancy, but her talents are wide. Is it plausible that FAQ decided to pop a Jack-of-all trades caster? Imo yes.

GK is build on a mining site. Is it plausible that Saline IV would have wanted a dirtamancer to aid the mining? Imo yes. If your capital has a tunnel system beneath it, would a dirtamancer have military value. Yes. Is a dirtamancer a generally usefully caster type? Yes. What is the likelihood that Saline IV wanted a dirtamancy? Imo high.

We don't know if casters pop with talents determined by the overlord, but imo canon doesn't support the likelihood of it being random.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby Ragn Charran » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:05 pm

Anton Gaist wrote:And if he gets mad, what I'm thinking is, Charles is loaded. What's to keep him from summoning his own Perfect Warlord? That spell is, after all, "only" 500,000 shmuckers. He could very well afford to summon Parson's match.


I'm not sure that's an available option. The reactions of the residents of the Magic Kingdom, and particularly the dialogue between Janis and Sizemore, suggest the Magic Kingdom has its own agenda here. There has also been significant discussion suggesting how the spell didn't cost nearly enough, given all the magic items that came with it, and if these assumptions are correct means the Magic Kingdom, in a sense, subsidized Parson's summoning (and therefore gives weight to their "own agenda" idea).

They may not be willing to sell another copy, and end up with multiple rule-breakers running around.

SteveMB wrote:It's possible that the Archons he lost in this debacle were a big enough fraction of Charlie's total forces to hurt him seriously.


Given Charlie's confidence that this was a no-lose situation, it is plausible he'd invest a lot of forces in his play, and his last-ditch attempt to deal his way out of the loss - which in my mind could not be done without breaking alliance and therefore violating his prime reputation protection rule - does imply that he was about to lose a lot of valuable units. Even 28 archons aren't valuable if you have 1,000 of them waiting back home. His initial plan that he ran past Parson to only send 13 backs this up as well.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:18 pm

Binty wrote:We don't know if casters pop with talents determined by the overlord, but imo canon doesn't support the likelihood of it being random.


True, but it does seem to be determined by "fate". Overlords get what they need, not what they ask for. Jillian is the prime example. A warrior that can fight and protect her home, not a philosopher.
To me, it is clear that one can't order mancers. Otherwise everybody would have a lookamancer. And the whole RCC, 6 different factions, did not have one.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby Binty » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:24 pm

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:
To me, it is clear that one can't order mancers. Otherwise everybody would have a lookamancer. And the whole RCC, 6 different factions, did not have one.


Fate determining the talents of casters is plausible. Imo this is as likely as Overlord's choice. Imo it being truly random is unlikely.

I am less than convinced about the lack of lookamancers in the RCC 'in field' forces as evidence against Overlord choice. I would think it likely that casters are very rarely sent into the field. I also suspect that lookamancers have a limited range (Battlespace?) and so those left in cities couldn't help the RCC.

In any case, given we don't know much about the abilities of most caster types. The number of casters a side can have is probably very limited; upkeep and/or popping cost. I think it is over-reaching to claim all sides would have a lookamancer given choice.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby gameboy1234 » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:35 pm

Binty wrote:
moose o death wrote:GK is build on a mining site. Is it plausible that Saline IV would have wanted a dirtamancer to aid the mining? Imo yes. If your capital has a tunnel system beneath it, would a dirtamancer have military value. Yes. Is a dirtamancer a generally usefully caster type? Yes. What is the likelihood that Saline IV wanted a dirtamancy? Imo high.


Sizemore is a Plaid, just like Stanley. I guess Saline could be a Plaid too, but I don't think so. I'm going to guess that Saline (or his progenitor) made an alliance with the Plaids, rather than popped them. It may be that certain tribes have more likelyhood of popping a certain type of caster than others, and the alliance may have been planned that way.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby parson4president » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:00 pm

Charlie is a mercenery and the best one around. He follows the money and the advantage. When he saw that GK was goin to hold its own he decided to take advantage and talk with hamster even though his troops were engaged with GK. Now that GK is the powerhouse Charlie will want to offer his services and always be on the strong side till it looks grim and back off. He never gets too invested in one customer or side and dosent care if they win or lose as long as at the end of the day he is still in charge of his kingdom and a little richer. If GK can get Stanley's head out of his own boop they will side with Charlie and use his advantage to move on toward dominance. Then worry about the sleeping beast that is CharlesinCharge when he is the only problem left or he decides to start something himself
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby Binty » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:54 pm

gameboy1234 wrote: Sizemore is a Plaid, just like Stanley. I guess Saline could be a Plaid too, but I don't think so.


Why don't you think so? What can you point to suggesting the Plaid tribe isn't the native tribe of GK? I don't believe there is anything.

Your suggesting that not only did Saline IV name a non-royal warlord heir, but that that warlord wasn't even of his tribe and somehow Sizemore was also of this foreign tribe. This strangness isn't mentioned in all the exposition in Book 1.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby mutecebu » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:06 pm

Binty wrote:
Welf von Ehrwald wrote:
In any case, given we don't know much about the abilities of most caster types. The number of casters a side can have is probably very limited; upkeep and/or popping cost. I think it is over-reaching to claim all sides would have a lookamancer given choice.


Agreed. It's like saying in Starcraft every Protos player would make a fleet of carriers [or insert your strategy game of choice]. Well, some do, it is indeed useful, but is by no means the only strategy, and there may be more cost-effective means of getting similar results (i.e. doombats are a lot cheaper).
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby Elessar » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:17 pm

parson4president wrote:Charlie is a mercenery and the best one around. He follows the money and the advantage. When he saw that GK was goin to hold its own he decided to take advantage and talk with hamster even though his troops were engaged with GK. Now that GK is the powerhouse Charlie will want to offer his services and always be on the strong side till it looks grim and back off. He never gets too invested in one customer or side and dosent care if they win or lose as long as at the end of the day he is still in charge of his kingdom and a little richer. If GK can get Stanley's head out of his own boop they will side with Charlie and use his advantage to move on toward dominance. Then worry about the sleeping beast that is CharlesinCharge when he is the only problem left or he decides to start something himself


There's no reason why GK would ever side with Charlie. Remember? Stanley detests Charlie so much that he won't hire him when GK is losing.

And now they're winning.

With Stanley paranoid of his own 'loyal' forces, odds are slim that he could be swayed to hire Charles.
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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby Ragn Charran » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:58 pm

mutecebu wrote:(i.e. doombats are a lot cheaper).


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Re: Summer Updates - 007

Postby Goshen » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:01 pm

In reference to the brick: In real life, in the middle ages, a fortified defender could put peasants on the wall and have them play drop-the-rock on attackers massing below the wall. Or drop the oil, the cat, the kitchen sink, etc. So, this trick of weaponizing otherwise non-combatant units (people) in erfworld is moot, because it does not seem to have any non-combatant units. Hmm. It might still be a good use for otherwise weak units.
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