oslecamo2 wrote:There's a lot of stuff that could be satisfied by teleportation in a static-panel comic.
Many or most of the panels in which we see archons moving, it is clear that they are moving. This first appearance gives no indication of movement, just hovering in place. Not proof of anything, but as I've said it sure gave me the impression that they just appeared.
Apeared from a veil that was broken as they entered the city.
Foolmancy is that harder the closer you're to your oponent. That's why the Haggar archons burned so much juice, as they were just side by side with a LOT of warlords all making spot checks. That's why Vinny had to drop to the ground and touch the fake dwagon to realize Stanley had escaped his trap.
Veiling in an empty hex in the middle of nowhere, much easier.
oslecamo2 wrote:1-During book 1 Charlie at no moment just teleports inside GK's Garrison (instead of the undefended airspace), takes Hamster's gauntlet and calls it a day.
Not being able to teleport into a city, this would be a reasonable limitation on the power to teleport your units. The rest of your point 1 and point 2 and the "pass through GK territory" discussion is covered by the "can transmit only" highly plausible limitation.
So there's teleporting, but with a bunch of random limitations? Not very likely if you ask me. Rules in Erfworld are relatively simple, and the teleport you're defending just gets more and more complicated.
oslecamo2 wrote:3-Finally, the decrypted archons say NOTHING about any teleportation. They tell important numbers, Charlie's location and defenses, but they say nothing that archons can teleport around.
They do not have that capability. Charlie/arkendish does.
The arkendish, a thinkmancy artifact, grants one-way teleportation with more clauses than any of Charlie's contracts? Really?
Oberon wrote: I think that it is pretty clear that either the archons were not entirely forthcoming or for purposes of plot Parson was too intimidated by all those tiny playboy bunnies to spend enough time, er, pumping them for information as we could have expected him to do.
Decrypted have unquestionable loyalty to their new side.
oslecamo2 wrote:4-Hamster also never mentions it. If Charlie could teleport, Hamster certainly would've at least spent some comic-time thinking about the implications, because he was present when the Archons "popped"
Who? Hamstard, the little devil on Parson shoulder? You don't get original thought out of your imaginary friend...
Perhaps you missed Stanley crowning Parson as LORD HAMSTER, DESTROYER OF RULES!
oslecamo2 wrote:In short, it can all be explained with archons veiling powers. And we've confirmed several times archons have natural veiling powers. We have not a single character stating that archons can teleport, including but not limited to the archons themselves when under carefull Hamster interrogation.
Not so careful, as supported by the strip. Parson was intimidated, and this may have overcome his natural inclination to collect as much intel as he could. Also, the archons themselves treated their relationship with Parson as if he were a "full services" customer of Charlie. This "full service" may easily be limited to sex and unthinking charges into certain death, as was described about most contracts with those terms. It almost certainly does not include "tell the guy who is going to rape you and then send you to die as many of my secrets as you might know."
The supreme contract does include that the archons are to treat their hiring side as if their duty and loyalty was to them, including going against Charlie himself.
Additionally, only archons with the foolamancy special can veil. And this strongly appears to be a single target effect, as outlined in the strip with the archons spying on the Haggar forces:
Book 2 Text 18 wrote:Lindsay and Paris ended turn at the head of the column, Miley and Brittany at the rear. Hilary and her partner Avril took up a risky blind, directly over the heads of Prince Sammy's leadership stack. They kept the rising sun at their backs, relative to the warlords, and spent most of their juice to shine out their shadows. It was tricky, but worth it.
spent most of their
juice. Not one
foolamancer capable archon keeping the entire stack veiled. And it nearly drained each one just to veil themselves.
Again, because they were at point-blank range and had to beat the spot checks of a lot of warlords. They wanted to listen to their conversations, and thus burned extra juice to get near enough to spy for Charlie. It wasn't a battle group, but a spying group, thus Charlie sent foolmancy-specialized archons.
Oberon wrote:It's vaguely plausible that Charlie had 80ish archons within a single turn's flight of GK. Vaguely, but not logically.
You know, you still have to explain from where you're geting that number. I would estimate at best some dozen archons from the pictures. No way there was 80 archons at the final showdown.
Oberon wrote: As discussed before, he had only managed to hire out three archons to the RCC previously, and those were a love gift of Ansom looking out for Jillian, and not really needed otherwise. Charlie had been turned down by the RCC on a second contract. Charlie could hardly have imagined that Ansom would try to assault the uncroaked on the walls alone and get into a position where he was forced into hiring more archons, that was a stupid maneuver. And the RCC had a 25:1 advantage, and the remainder of their siege was only a single turn away. They needed no help, there is no logic present in any expectation of Charlie to hire out more archons to the RCC, and there were surely profits to be made elsewhere.
Charlie expected Stanley to have a change of mind and recruit the archons, as he was cornered, short of options, and with a deep wallet. The perfect client. Except that Wanda then presented the Perfect Warlord alternative.
Oberon wrote:But for the sake of argument, Charlie had 80ish archons within a single turn's flight of GK. And they all had the foolamancy special? Really, now Charlie is just bat-crazy-prepared... It is simply implausible to me to consider that of Charlie's 600 archons that he had 80ish foolamancy capable units within a single turn's flight of GK. For why? It makes no sense. Even if Charlie illogically for reasons explained above expected to be able to hire out more archons to the RCC, he didn't need to concentrate many/all of the foolamancy capable ones near GK. The RCC knew he was a potential mercenary for them, and GK knew he was a potential mercenary against them. No veiling required under these circumstances. So, why?
1-They definetely were less than 80 archons, so not that much of an investment.
2-Charlie expected Stanley to break in and hire him. Or perhaps a third side may appear and try to profit from the whole situation. Either way, Charlie needs to keep his force secret untill somebody is willing to pay him.
3-Considering they were hiding in the middle of a mountain in the middle of nowhere, only a few foolmancy-able archons are needed to veil the group, compared to archons sharing the same space as an enemy army. Completely diferent situations. Hiding in isolated mountains is easy (Vinny says they would never find Stanley in the wild while he could afford a master foolmancer), hiding in an open road when the enemy is literally standing next to you (Haggar's situation) is much more juice-intensive.
Oberon wrote:Let me be clear: I'm not claiming that this is a done deal, proven and unassailable. It isn't. We have only speculation to kick around the forums, not hard supporting facts. It is my belief that this capability makes sense, based upon what I believe are logical facts and observations. But only in a hypothetical sense. I'm not claiming that it must be so. It could be revealed to be wrong, and I'd be ok with that. But if so, I'd like to have some of the illogical circumstances for the case where Charlie does not have this ability explained in better detail. I just don't see much in the way of alternative logical explanations that work with the information currently available which makes any sense. The ability for the arkendish to teleport units, at least from Charlie's sole city, does make that sense, given the other details.
It doesn't really. It's a thinkmancy artifact for starters, so teleportation makes no sense, and then you have to put a lot of random clauses to explain why Charlie just doesn't go "Scry and Die b****!". As for your other details were just explained. Charlie did not have 80sh archons at all deployed near GK, he hoped Stanley would hire them out of desesperation, not the RCC, so he had to keep them veiled for some time, and hiding in the middle of nowhere is much cheaper than hiding in the middle of your enemy.
And for Hamster to don't extract such a piece of valuable information from the brainwashed archons just because they were wearing bunny suits... That's simply ridiculous. Hamster knows how dangerous Charlie is, had Maggie backing him up, and thus definetely extracted every piece of information from their decrypted archons as possible.