Book 2 – Text Updates 041

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby ftl » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:04 am

GaryThunder wrote:I can't believe I didn't see this before. Lloyd's staff isn't a lollipop, it's a copyright symbol.

He's a copywright.


AAAAAHHHHHH

I didn't see that either.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby atalex » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:10 am

FYI - don't know if anyone has pointed this out, but Lloyd is apparently the brand name of a type of copy machine. I still find it odd that Rob made Pierce so directly evocative of Hawkeye from MASH. Lloyd is obviously based (visually, at least) on the Deadly Duplicator, but his name isn't Elliott Taggart, and other than appearance, he hasn't riffed of that character a all. I stand by my prediction that Pierce is doomed.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby TheTuna » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:34 pm

So what odds do we give on Ace switching sides on the spot if Parson comes through and goes, "Holy boop, is that a jetpack? Awesome!"
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby Beeskee » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 pm

I think everyone wants Ace to switch to Parson's side. Myself included. :D

If he does, I fully expect Parson to explain the concept of "power armor" to him.


Everything else I wanted to say about this update has already been said. I think the tactical situation has changed enough that clearing the airspace is no longer viable, and besides, the casters have specific orders contrary to that now: escort kingy out. I think this update does a great job of showing that 'units' are people with their own wants, needs, and goals, some of which may be contrary to what is currently going on for their side.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby atalex » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:32 pm

GaryThunder wrote:I can't believe I didn't see this before. Lloyd's staff isn't a lollipop, it's a copyright symbol.

He's a copywright.


Does this mean that if Lloyd gets croaked and decrypted, he becomes a copywight?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby atalex » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:46 pm

Beeskee wrote:I think everyone wants Ace to switch to Parson's side. Myself included. :D

If he does, I fully expect Parson to explain the concept of "power armor" to him.


Everything else I wanted to say about this update has already been said. I think the tactical situation has changed enough that clearing the airspace is no longer viable, and besides, the casters have specific orders contrary to that now: escort kingy out. I think this update does a great job of showing that 'units' are people with their own wants, needs, and goals, some of which may be contrary to what is currently going on for their side.


True. Another thing that intrigues me about Pierce is that he's the only person not already a part of the Hippiemancer conspiracy who sees the futility of Erfworld's perpetual state of war. I imagine most of the Erfworlders who died in the day's fighting and earlier during Ossomer's war against Haggar marched proudly to their deaths for the glory of their respective sides, secure in the knowledge that dying in battle would increase the likelihood that the Titans would judge them favorably and allow them into the City of Heroes. To the extent that there is religion and a concept of an afterlife in Erfworld, it is in the mold of Viking fatalism (at least according to my limited understanding) -- death in battle gets you into Valhalla, so "peace" just means you're more likely to have a crappy afterlife. Yet Pierce seems horrified and angry that so many soldiers died on his watch and is not at all mollified by any myths about the City of Heroes.

I wish Pierce weren't so clearly based on Hawkeye. He has an interesting perspective, and if he were more distinct, I think Parson could turn him about as easily as he could Ace. I just don't think Rob is going to keep a character around for any length of time just to do MASH jokes.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby Beeskee » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:33 pm

I think there is more to Pierce than just being a Hawkeye clone. Most of Rob's puns and jokes have more than one aspect to them. I just don't think we've seen everything yet.

As far as Pierce's perspective on things, I think it comes just as much from him being a healomancer as from being based on Hawkeye. Imagine being a doctor in a world that's in a neverending state of war.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby atalex » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:56 pm

Beeskee wrote:I think there is more to Pierce than just being a Hawkeye clone. Most of Rob's puns and jokes have more than one aspect to them. I just don't think we've seen everything yet.


I certainly hope that there is. One of the things I love best about Erfworld is the way "minor throwaway" characters suddenly become fascinating when they get a chance to shine. I am President of the Ossomer Fanclub after all.:) Besides, assuming Pierce survives the coming battle and doesn't flee with Slately, I think he's the JS unit whose second most likely to willingly turn if Parson gets to talk to him (after Ace, of course).
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby ScegfOd » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:35 pm

i don't remember if anyone posted this about the jet-pack before, but i'm not going to dig through every forum post to find out :P

i doubt that the jet-pack will help out anyone on Jetstone's side.

i think that jet-pack is going to end up in parson's hands so that he can fly around with his (stanley's) dragon army instead of being stuck on the ground as a unit which is too heavy to ride a mount ^^

from heavy garrison unit that cant even ride anything to flying warlord of ultramegasuperhappyfuntimedoom in one battle xD
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby Lamech » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:53 pm

Yeah, a lot of people are predicting that Parson will immediately see the value of the item. And even better that Ace will turn, when he decides how cool Parson is. It also fits well with Parson's plot to make a bubble kingdom. Increases army strength with out combat or an increased upkeep.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby Beeskee » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:08 pm

However things turn out, Parson is about to pwnzorz a capital site. Tramennis will either retreat, or lose. He's awesome but I don't think he is awesome enough to win against Parson. ;) So it looks an awful lot like Parson is about to become an overlord. I guess we will see. :D I certainly do hope he ends up with a non-decrypted Ace on his side, however things turn out. If all that happens, I think the rest of Erfworld is in trouble.

Notice, though, that according to the text update, the jetpack only works for command units. Ace might not be able to make a version that works for regular units. It's a magical item so there may be restrictions on how the magic can work.
Last edited by Beeskee on Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby Wyvern » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:10 pm

I think there are two main reasons why the GK fliers were considered sitting ducks before, but why they aren't now.

1) Jetstone can't redeploy their archers easily anymore. We know now that there are parts of the airspace that are out of range of archers stationed in the tower, so if Jetstone wanted to shoot down all the fliers before, they would have had to move the archers out of the garrison entirely so they could move freely around the city, positioning themselves to take out as many fliers as possible before Jetstone's own air force went in to finish off the rest. But the path out of the tower apparently passes right by the exit from the courtyard garrison where Wanda is. Funneling hundreds or possibly thousands of archers past that point would leave them extremely vulnerable to quick strikes from Gobwin Knob units. So for all intents and purposes, most of Jetstone's archers are pinned in the garrison and can't safely get out, meaning they can't be leveraged against the remaining fliers the way they could before. This is why in today's update they mention that only the archers still on the outer walls could be used. (A small, super-powered stack like they're planning to send out to escort Stately is less susceptible to this, since they can get through the danger zone faster and fend off an attack better.)

2) Jetstone now needs to worry about keeping warm bodies in the garrison. This was a non-issue before; they were completely safe. But now, if they move most of their dudes out to the walls to go archon-sniping (if doing so was logistically possible to begin with), Wanda could just blitz the tower while they're out and take the city right then and there.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby Oberon » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:10 am

shalist wrote:Its worth noting that Wanda had little difficulty nuking all sortsa archons and fliers with GK's tower defense, so the shell-shocked healomancer might be overstating their combat ability a bit, especially since the encounter on the bridge was probably the only time he'd ever 'fought' them.
It's also worth noting that Wanda used the entire tower defense capacity, and killed only a single archon and three unipegitars. A far cry from "all sortsa archons and fliers."
atalex wrote:FYI - don't know if anyone has pointed this out, but Lloyd is apparently the brand name of a type of copy machine. I still find it odd that Rob made Pierce so directly evocative of Hawkeye from MASH. Lloyd is obviously based (visually, at least) on the Deadly Duplicator, but his name isn't Elliott Taggart, and other than appearance, he hasn't riffed of that character a all. I stand by my prediction that Pierce is doomed.
As has been made apparent many times, the author loves multi-layered references. Many or most of the characters in the comic can be traced to more than a single source. Taking only Duncan Scone as an example, he has the physical appearance of Lobot from Star Wars, and a name which evokes many potential references. Here at least the Wiki is accurate:
Erfworld Wiki wrote:His name is a homonym for "Dunking Scone" or perhaps "Dunkin'," a reference to a baked treat often taken with coffee and the manner in which it is enjoyed. Additionally, his name could also reference the coffee shop/baked good chain "Dunkin' Donuts". His skin is mocha-colored, again referencing coffee either a bean from Yemen or a type of drink, and he wears Jitterati's livery of white with a circular green symbol, a reference to Starbucks.

His name may also be a reference to the episode of the TV version of Highlander in which Duncan MacLeod returns the Stone of Scone to Scotland.

He looks impeccably similar to Lobot, the Vice Administrator of Cloud City from Star Wars.

In Macbeth, Macbeth is is crowned at Scone, after killing King Duncan.

May also be a reference to Duncan Idaho, from the Dune series, who initially serves as an Atreides warlord, and later as a Mentat.

Beeskee wrote:However things turn out, Parson is about to pwnzorz a capital site. Tramennis will either retreat, or lose. He's awesome but I don't think he is awesome enough to win against Parson. ;) So it looks an awful lot like Parson is about to become an overlord.
For the folks who feel that either Wanda and/or Parson will split from Stanlie and form their own Side:
I don't see it happening, but you've got a lot going for your position at this time. If Parson/Wanda takes Jetstone, they have a capitol site. If they defeat and decrypt the Jetstone casters (and said casters can still cast) they will have a Side comprised of (regardless of whether Parson or Wanda is the Overlord) the Perfect Warlord, a mastercraft croakamancer, a high level dirtamancer (assuming Sizemore comes to Jetstone with Parson), a high level healomancer, a dollamancer, a hat magician, and a dittomancer. This would be more casters (6) than any other Side we've seen before (GK started TBfGK with 5). It would offer many more options for bi- and tri-mancer links to Parson, who is likely to be far more interested in the potentials of caster links than any prior Erf warlord has been. He would be lacking a key component in a thinkamancer, unless somehow Maggie also transferred to his Side.
Last edited by Oberon on Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Zeroberon wrote:So we know with 100% certainty that THIS IS HOW TRI-LINKS WORK, PERIOD END OF STORY.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby gameboy1234 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:27 am

ScegfOd wrote:i think that jet-pack is going to end up in parson's hands so that he can fly around with his (stanley's) dragon army instead of being stuck on the ground as a unit which is too heavy to ride a mount ^^



Interesting. And GK also needs healing magic, and the jet pack is now in the possession of a relatively high level Healomancer....

I'd love to see Ace work with Parson but I wonder if Fate (and Rob) might think Pierce the better choice.
"Do it?" Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

I did it thirty-five minutes ago.

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:07 am

atalex wrote:I certainly hope that there is. One of the things I love best about Erfworld is the way "minor throwaway" characters suddenly become fascinating when they get a chance to shine. I am President of the Ossomer Fanclub after all.:)


Of which I'd like to call myself a member.

Speaking of fan-clubs, I should start one for Slately; the people need to be made aware of the greatness and the stature of the character! He deserves better than he gets.

For example, many people want Ace to defect to Parson. I can see why, in light of an innovation and Erfworlders debate*. I for one though would prefer Parson to have a stronger and more varied roster of antagonists. The more interesting characters do not join Parson (for now), the better imo.

Oh yes, eventually it will be Parson (and newfound friends) vs. Charlie. Just not yet, for that will be the end of Erfworld. In more ways than one.

*: Incidentally, Ace's tech innovativeness can be spun either way in that debate, but that's another topic.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby Selexor » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:17 am

Just stickin' my head back in to applaud the M*A*S*H reference. I was trying to figure out who the Healomancer was from the artwork of Page 53... the green robes, the martini, the stubble, I'm amazed I didn't see it. I do love Pierce's style of speech and mannerism in this update to, it's very accurate. :) Bravo.
But of course that's just my opinion.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby Beeskee » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:59 am

I don't think Wanda will leave Stanley's side (would she consider a permanently allied side to still be "keeping the tools together"? I don't know.) but I think the possibility is there for Parson to start a new side which is permanently allied with GK. I have no idea if it will actually happen or not, just that there are an awful lot of opportunities lining up. It may make strategic sense too - give GK a buffer zone around themselves, plus any enemy that wants to take GK on is going to have to go through Parson to get them.

To clarify, I'm not saying it will happen, only that it may have a chance of happening. It's an opportunity, but one which may or may not be used. We'll all have to wait and find out together. :)
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby Raza » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:59 pm

atalex wrote:2. After we've spent months speculating on Chekhov's jetpack, this update now raises the possibility that it won't be used at all! Slately, Trem and everyone else will just ignore its utility in the confusion, and it will just be another example of Fate kicking poor Ace once again.

You kidding? Its likelihood of being used has been expertly played down, and we know the exact character holding it.

That thing will be used for something - and succeed dramatically at it, too.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:20 pm

And it was produced in a single turn, without linking. I could see jetstones's whole army getting equipped with jetpack in the future (if jetstone survive the battle (and Ace doesn't turn to GK)).
3 Naughtymancers of different disciplines walk into a bar... wait, forget what I just said. A shockmancer and a croakamancer walk into a bar.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 041

Postby GaryThunder » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:29 pm

Parson has no desire to start his own side. Why earn the enmity of Stanley and his Arkenhammer and his dwagons when he could wield pretty much the same power and authority as GK's Chief Warlord (power and authority, it has been noted, that Parson explicitly does not want anyway)? Stanley is pliable enough to give Parson all the autonomy he needs and doesn't want. Furthermore, how does increasing the factionalization of the game world contribute in any way to stability or a lack of war in Erfworld? That may not be Parson's specific objective, but he clearly has no desire to see the bloodbath of Erfworld extended for any longer than is necessary.
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