Book 2 – Page 53

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Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby atalex » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:01 pm

MarbitChow wrote:I think we're seeing that innovation is occurring in the only place it actually can right now: the Magic Kingdom.


Agreed. I mention this again because it was touched on in the most recent text update: Ace has, on his own initiative, come up with at least one new type of magical device that could potentially revolutionize warfare in Erfworld. And his ruler, a pompous, hide-bound little traditionalist, doesn't want to hear anything about it because he would prefer that Ace stick to giant teddy bears. And since Slately has, by virtue of his position, actual mind control powers which affect Ace's ability to act freely, Ace generally does stick to giant teddy bears originally designed by another Dollamancer who died many turns before, and he must actively subvert his Duty and risk punishment or disbanding in order to pursue his innovations.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Beeskee » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:55 pm

I think the only problem Z had with the picnic basket was that he didn't know the word "picnic" - he understood "basket with a handle" just fine and was able to make one easily. I would imagine any twoll, or any other unit with the fabrication special, could do that regardless of level. The basket he used for raw materials was holding potatoes in a cabinet, a handle would have been in the way there. I'm sure other baskets with handles exist in Erfworld, there just weren't any nearby to Parson and Z at the time.


And Ace is definitely being held back by his current side. Someone with that kind of talent and imagination should be given a workshop, unlimited materials, and told to "go nuts" - and we all know Parson would figure out that Ace was unhappy with making battle bears and raiment within one minute of talking to him about them.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Housellama » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:23 pm

Beeskee wrote:And Ace is definitely being held back by his current side. Someone with that kind of talent and imagination should be given a workshop, unlimited materials, and told to "go nuts" - and we all know Parson would figure out that Ace was unhappy with making battle bears and raiment within one minute of talking to him about them.


Parson getting his hands on Ace? Perish the thought. Jack would have his hands full.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Oberon » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:12 am

Beeskee wrote:And Ace is definitely being held back by his current side. Someone with that kind of talent and imagination should be given a workshop, unlimited materials, and told to "go nuts" - and we all know Parson would figure out that Ace was unhappy with making battle bears and raiment within one minute of talking to him about them.
There is a good and bad side to a minion with an imagination and a vision. I've had employees who were great thinkers, but whom I had to direct carefully as they tended to drift significantly past the project objectives. I tend to think that Ace is in that category. He is enthusiastic, eager, and imaginative. And yet he created a jet pack. For a battle against a foe who had a firm control of the skies and yet no (known) means to attack Jetstone forces who were not in the skies. In other words, a useless object, in the context of the current conflict. And he tried to press it upon Tram, indicating a sense of value for a magic item with no real or valuable application in the current conflict.

Sure, we can assume that Parson would better utilize a caster with such a frustrated capability. But that doesn't make that caster an unrecognized brilliance within his current Side.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby GaryThunder » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:37 am

What I think you're saying, Oberon, is that while Ace's desire to build new and interesting devices for his side is laudable in and of itself, he fails to apply it or present it in the appropriate context and in so doing harms his side through his random productivity more than he helps it. And I would agree with that. Back again to Parson's rant on strategy: Objectives, streaming from a goal. Ace thinks that making cool new devices is an objective in itself, but it's just not part of Jetstone's strategy, and he either needs to convince Slately to change the strategy or make himself more useful for the purpose to which he is primarily being employed.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Beeskee » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:45 am

The jetpack would have been useful, if not for the air drop, in the sense that Tramennis could get out there and actually do some of the croaking himself during the battle to earn experience. He wouldn't have had to go in alone either, Jetstone has a ton of flying units. Tram could have gone in with them after the initial attack, leading the cleanup and probably leveling several times.

GK's turn had ended but the air drop had not yet occurred when Ace decided to fabricate the item. The tactical situation has changed since then, of course.

I'm not saying Ace is a super genius or that everything he makes is gold. Even by his own admittance, most of the stuff he makes is 'junk' - but in among that is the occasional gem. Like the blaster he made for Ossomer which gave him a huge starting advantage in his duel with Ansom.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby DevilDan » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:01 pm

Beeskee wrote:The jetpack would have been useful, if not for the air drop, in the sense that Tramennis could get out there and actually do some of the croaking himself during the battle to earn experience. He wouldn't have had to go in alone either, Jetstone has a ton of flying units. Tram could have gone in with them after the initial attack, leading the cleanup and probably leveling several times.


A lot of inventions get tested first in the battle field, but by grunts, not by very valuable units...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Beeskee » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:17 pm

Tram is valuable in the sense that he's probably a greater than level 1 warlord who is good at diplomacy, but beyond that he's reasonably expendable. He's not an heir, and Jetstone can't afford to make him one. They'll lose a valuable warlord if they lose him but it won't be the end of the side. Though the move I suggested would have been less risky than it seems, since warlords provide a bonus, etc. I said Tram rather than any generic warlord because Ace was offering the jetpack to him. The tactic I suggested could have been carried out by any warlord. They could have done a quick "hit and run" on Wanda as she was falling, and the warlord probably would have been able to withdraw before they were croaked by the archons and Ossomer.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby the_tick_rules » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:40 pm

He is their chief warlord and probably the highest level one they have. The king is now beginning to see his true value and is his last remaining "son" so the boss says he's valuable so he is. They did try and croak her, that one arm guy tried and missed.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Sieggy » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:46 pm

atalex wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:I think we're seeing that innovation is occurring in the only place it actually can right now: the Magic Kingdom.


Agreed. I mention this again because it was touched on in the most recent text update: Ace has, on his own initiative, come up with at least one new type of magical device that could potentially revolutionize warfare in Erfworld. And his ruler, a pompous, hide-bound little traditionalist, doesn't want to hear anything about it because he would prefer that Ace stick to giant teddy bears. And since Slately has, by virtue of his position, actual mind control powers which affect Ace's ability to act freely, Ace generally does stick to giant teddy bears originally designed by another Dollamancer who died many turns before, and he must actively subvert his Duty and risk punishment or disbanding in order to pursue his innovations.

Ya know, I'm going to laugh like hell if it turns out the unit who founded / started the MK was named Galt . . .
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Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby atalex » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:02 am

Sieggy wrote:
atalex wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:I think we're seeing that innovation is occurring in the only place it actually can right now: the Magic Kingdom.


Agreed. I mention this again because it was touched on in the most recent text update: Ace has, on his own initiative, come up with at least one new type of magical device that could potentially revolutionize warfare in Erfworld. And his ruler, a pompous, hide-bound little traditionalist, doesn't want to hear anything about it because he would prefer that Ace stick to giant teddy bears. And since Slately has, by virtue of his position, actual mind control powers which affect Ace's ability to act freely, Ace generally does stick to giant teddy bears originally designed by another Dollamancer who died many turns before, and he must actively subvert his Duty and risk punishment or disbanding in order to pursue his innovations.

Ya know, I'm going to laugh like hell if it turns out the unit who founded / started the MK was named Galt . . .


If the MK were to turn out to be some sort of Objectivist Galt's Gulch metaphor, I would hope that it would inspire Parson to invade the MK with everything he had and wipe it from the face of Erfworld.

I have ... issues with Ayn Rand. I'm aware of that.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 53

Postby Beeskee » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:49 pm

Again, I'm not saying Tram isn't valuable. :) Just that Ace made the item for Tram, with the intent that he use it, somehow, in the upcoming battle. The tactic I described is my best guess at what he was thinking it could be used for.

When I said "they could have done a quick 'hit and run' while Wanda was falling" I meant they ALSO could have done that, in addition to the first idea I had, using the jetpack in a sudden strike against Wanda, since Ace had no idea GK was planning to do the "food fight" move.
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