158 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 145

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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Mon May 04, 2009 4:01 pm

They had their dancefght bonuses and a bunch of supposedly high level warlords.
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby Matty » Mon May 04, 2009 8:23 pm

Here's something I've been wondering for a while now: When a person attunes to an Arkentool, do they gain automatic knowledge of the capabilities of the tool? Given recent developments there's a bit of contradictory evidence - very early in the strip, Stanley 'discovers' that every 4th or 5th nut he cracks turns into a pigeon, but at the same time immediately after attuning to the 'pliers Wanda knows the incantation to create the new, "glorious" undead Ansom. While I don't doubt that Wanda has a great deal more experience with the magic associated with her tool than Stanley would with his, I don't know if there's enough evidence to say one way or another. I think it's an interesting question as to whether the powers are immediately known or whether they need to be 'discovered'.
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby BarGamer » Tue May 05, 2009 2:05 am

Stanley has a pair of hidden stats which are quite low: Intelligence and Wisdom. Frankly, I don't know HOW he got promoted to Warlord. Maybe by Dance Fighting, maybe by Wanda's manipulation, maybe he got a Prediction too. XP
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby raphfrk » Tue May 05, 2009 3:58 am

Matty wrote:Given recent developments there's a bit of contradictory evidence - very early in the strip, Stanley 'discovers' that every 4th or 5th nut he cracks turns into a pigeon, but at the same time immediately after attuning to the 'pliers Wanda knows the incantation to create the new, "glorious" undead Ansom.


Wanda didn't actually say 'decrypt', it is the sounds that the spell makes. She just pointed the pliers at Ansom and cast de-croak, or maybe just thought 'do something'. It is implied that the tools have conciousness.

BarGamer wrote:Stanley has a pair of hidden stats which are quite low: Intelligence and Wisdom. Frankly, I don't know HOW he got promoted to Warlord. Maybe by Dance Fighting, maybe by Wanda's manipulation, maybe he got a Prediction too. XP


It is implied that he is pretty good at tactics, just not very good at grand strategy. He did reasonably well in the fight in the pass. If Jillian wasn't in the way (and if Jack didn't trick him), he would have achieved his goal of making it past them.
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby Subtext » Tue May 05, 2009 4:11 am

Stanley isn't exactly stupid, he has just no sense of efficient leadership...at least in a large scale. And of course he is very fond of himself...
As Warlord he seemed to be pretty good. I could imagine Stanley as Warlord being somewhat like former Ansom...

@Matty: Probably not. When Wanda decrypted Ansom, she probably just tried uncroaking him using the Arkenpliers. She didn't know what exactly she created...I think she just used trial and error. Of course there may also be legends or stories or whatever about the Arkentools and some abilities might already be known while others have to be discovered.


Concerning the Archons: They might be powerful, but I don't think they are as powerful as most people think. It took three Archons to take out Wanda and her flying uncroaked and Wanda didn't even die.
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby moose o death » Tue May 05, 2009 6:03 am

first post on any erf forums, but...

i doubt wanda knows what she did, prior to the event at any rate, she simply found ansom raised him using the pliers and was very impressed with the result.

stanley isn't exacty a caster so it's likely the tools have innate powers of their own, but also act as some form of extension to the characters own traits. wanda was already a masterclass croakamancer so the tool just boosted here to a higher level maybe. stanley is a pikeman, who got promoted to overlord, there just isn't anything there to boost. so the tool is only useful at taming dwagons and busting nuts. in the hands of someone with the appropriate casting skills it could probably do significantly more.

as for who attunes, i get the feeling it's whoever finds it, in the case of ansom, they probably belonged to wanda at some stage prior she never had the chance to use them and ansom managed to score the things somehow. i assume this chain of events will make up book two if close. if wanda is croaked, the tool probably becomes open to attunement again.

the reason everyone thinks the attunement is the will of the titans is they think everything is the will of the titans. royalty, arkentools, that gem from the first strip probably would have been considered a sign from the titans if they had joined the dots. all the clans seem to be very obsessed with the titans.
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby BarGamer » Tue May 05, 2009 2:24 pm

Depending on who makes the claim of being the "First Side" there's probably a well-preserved history, with accounts of the Titans at work.

"So dude, there was this HUUUUUGE dude in a white jacket and an awesome do, all kinda gems on it, and they were building the mountain that is Gobwin Knob... Those narcs destroyed it now, that's another thing that we should not-love them for."
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby lovelyluthien » Tue May 05, 2009 2:33 pm

moose o death wrote:as for who attunes, i get the feeling it's whoever finds it, in the case of ansom, they probably belonged to wanda at some stage prior she never had the chance to use them and ansom managed to score the things somehow.


I don't think there's enough textual evidence that the pliers ever belonged to Wanda before, is there? Wouldn't she have said something about having them back, finally?
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby SteveMB » Tue May 05, 2009 3:20 pm

lovelyluthien wrote:I don't think there's enough textual evidence that the pliers ever belonged to Wanda before, is there? Wouldn't she have said something about having them back, finally?

The confrontation between Wanda and Ansom implies some sort of previous history between them, but exactly what it was is left to speculation.
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby kreszantas » Tue May 05, 2009 3:29 pm

SteveMB wrote:
lovelyluthien wrote:I don't think there's enough textual evidence that the pliers ever belonged to Wanda before, is there? Wouldn't she have said something about having them back, finally?

The confrontation between Wanda and Ansom implies some sort of previous history between them, but exactly what it was is left to speculation.

The phrasing can also lead towards the fulfillment of the Titan's will, Stanley stated before that Ansom was bringing the pliers to him now that could have meant him personally or his side. Wanda seems to be just as attuned to the Titan's will prior to and after gaining the pliers. There is a passage I read in a book many years ago that goes something like this that can describe what happened.

I (Stanley) will cause destruction in all the land, and the hook shall be set, I shall drag you forth from the North, from which you came not alone but with a great multitiude seeking to do me harm that is a sign of greatness indeed once they all know that I am the highest amongest you all, the trap will be set and I shall crush you with a mountain. That will be the end of thee fulfillment and rejoicing will be ours due to the deliverance out of your hand the enemy of the divine (holy vs unholy) We being the divine, the holy will change the landscape for all time and cause a paradise to replace the chaos that has striken mankind.
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby Spidew » Tue May 05, 2009 5:32 pm

The hammer is an offensive weapon, thus calling forth offensive creatures (dwagons). matches Stanley because it is used only in an offensive way. (not for construction).
The Dish is a communications device, vital to intel. And perhaps some mental control?
The pliers...well, an object that keeps things firmly in place...such as uncroaks?
The forth item... perhaps a shovel (not yet shown)? A defensive object that counterparts the hammer and creates a hundred cesspits a swipe? Sizemore's future?!? :o

Waiting eagerly for the next page...;)
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby Infidel » Tue May 05, 2009 7:18 pm

Spidew wrote:The hammer is an offensive weapon, thus calling forth offensive creatures (dwagons). matches Stanley because it is used only in an offensive way. (not for construction).
The Dish is a communications device, vital to intel. And perhaps some mental control?
The pliers...well, an object that keeps things firmly in place...such as uncroaks?
The forth item... perhaps a shovel (not yet shown)? A defensive object that counterparts the hammer and creates a hundred cesspits a swipe? Sizemore's future?!? :o

Waiting eagerly for the next page...;)


I don't get why people want the 4th tool to be a shovel. No one else's tool matches their function. Stanley is a piker. He didn't get a pike, he got a hammer. Wanda is a croakamancer. She didn't get a bone staff, or a tome written on dead skin, she got a pair of pliers. Who knows what Charlie's job is, but somehow I'm pretty sure it's not a Telephone Operator.

If an Arkentool does come Stanley's way, I'll bet real money that it's not a shovel.
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby kreszantas » Tue May 05, 2009 7:21 pm

Infidel wrote:
Spidew wrote:The hammer is an offensive weapon, thus calling forth offensive creatures (dwagons). matches Stanley because it is used only in an offensive way. (not for construction).
The Dish is a communications device, vital to intel. And perhaps some mental control?
The pliers...well, an object that keeps things firmly in place...such as uncroaks?
The forth item... perhaps a shovel (not yet shown)? A defensive object that counterparts the hammer and creates a hundred cesspits a swipe? Sizemore's future?!? :o

Waiting eagerly for the next page...;)


I don't get why people want the 4th tool to be a shovel. No one else's tool matches their function. Stanley is a piker. He didn't get a pike, he got a hammer. Wanda is a croakamancer. She didn't get a bone staff, or a tome written on dead skin, she got a pair of pliers. Who knows what Charlie's job is, but somehow I'm pretty sure it's not a Telephone Operator.

If an Arkentool does come Stanley's way, I'll bet real money that it's not a shovel.

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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby MarbitChow » Tue May 05, 2009 7:24 pm

The Titans looked like Elvis Impersonators.
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby raphfrk » Tue May 05, 2009 7:28 pm

Infidel wrote:If an Arkentool does come Stanley's way, I'll bet real money that it's not a shovel.


The dish is the only tool where form and function match perfectly, in RL a dish is used for communications. The pliers seems to have no link to croakamancy and the hammer falls somewhere in between (Thor's hammer and lightning, but doesn't seem to have a connection to dragons).
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby Infidel » Tue May 05, 2009 8:17 pm

raphfrk wrote:
Infidel wrote:If an Arkentool does come Stanley's way, I'll bet real money that it's not a shovel.


The dish is the only tool where form and function match perfectly, in RL a dish is used for communications. The pliers seems to have no link to croakamancy and the hammer falls somewhere in between (Thor's hammer and lightning, but doesn't seem to have a connection to dragons).


It only seems that way because of your perspective.

Hammer = Power. strength/electricity, Dragons/Lightning
Moderate Power applied to objects moves them. Excessive power applied crushes.

Pliers = Manipulation.

Dish = Linking
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Wed May 06, 2009 1:34 am

The Arkenpliers help to make uncroaked, so they "twist" the rules of life and death. So this is kinda fitting.
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby Infidel » Wed May 06, 2009 1:40 am

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:The Arkenpliers help to make uncroaked, so they "twist" the rules of life and death. So this is kinda fitting.


I see it as changing alignment. When you manipulate something, it generally maintains the same form and function just projected in a different direction. A switch may be on or off, but it is still a switch.

Arkenhammer you hit something too hard it gets crushed.
Arkenpliers. If you pull the lever too hard, it breaks off.
Dish. If you link too much....insanity? information overload...loss of identity? do people's brain explode like I always claim mine will when I study math? I suppose we'll find out.
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby Wystrell » Wed May 06, 2009 3:16 am

Hello, ErfOrums!

I thought the wiki article on the Arkentools was very helpful: http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Arkentools

Also, Parson will probably never have his own Arkentool, because he doesn't belong to Erf. The StupidMeals were supposed to catch him up to speed on the world (facts on the box) and give him tools to fix all the shortcomings that he had because Wanda cast his summoning spell instead of someone with experience. The 3D glasses let him see unit stats, which I think all Erf units can see, the gauntlet gave him a place to put his calculator watch, and the sword hilt (and eventually sword) was supposed to make him appear a little more... warlordish.

As for my speculation, Sizemore will probably get a shovel (see Wiki article), although if all the Arkentools are Fate-aligned, this will never happen (Dirtamancy is Erf-aligned). So either the wiki is wrong or there are a crapton of Arkentools (I mean, it takes a lot to build a world). Because Erfworld is funny I would imagine there will be an Arkensaw.
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Re: 158 The battle for Gobwin Knob

Postby eaten by a grue » Wed May 06, 2009 12:27 pm

I thought the wiki article on the Arkentools was very helpful: http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/Arkentools


So did I! Thanks.

I made the tool/Stanley connection, but the rest was news to me.

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