The Battle for Mine Island (Turn 7, I.A.R.)

[HerbieRai]

6) In the previous games we've still let the attacker choose which stack to attack, although I think if a stack is ranged it still has to be attacked first. Not sure if this has been changed with the new rule set.

[Stryke]

@ Stryke:
4) Random number generator based on the time of posting, in combat calculator.
5) Doesn't work, combat is only stack to stack--if 2 stacks attack 1, they do so individually.
6) I don't think we've had that happen yet, so I don't know.

1-3) understood
4) can you go into a bit more detail, i'm not sure what you mean.
5) a) so the would both attacks be done in the same turn
b) if a) is yes would the defender get to retaliate to both attacks

6) In the previous games we've still let the attacker choose which stack to attack, although I think if a stack is ranged it still has to be attacked first. Not sure if this has been changed with the new rule set.

6) Understood
7) why do we have to attack the ranged stack first and does this only apply to unlead stacks or are command units over ruled in this instance

I've begun designing units and sent the initial numbers to my team mates, once they get back to me and i'm happy with them i'll post the stats (just to let people know progress has been made).

[Nihila]

4) can you go into a bit more detail, i'm not sure what you mean.

There's a combat spreadsheet on the first post--you'll need to download it. In it, there should be a space to insert the time of posting in minutes and seconds. That's inserted into another algorithm to generate two pseudo-random numbers based on the pseudo-random "rolling" of 2 dice for each number.

5) a) so the would both attacks be done in the same turn
b) if a) is yes would the defender get to retaliate to both attacks

a--yes.
b--yes, but with a *.5 fatigue modifier for every combat fought unless it eliminates one attacking stack, which restores the bonus to *1.

7) why do we have to attack the ranged stack first and does this only apply to unlead stacks or are command units over ruled in this instance

That only applies if the attacking stack is ranged, it applies to all ranged stacks, and it's so that ranged stacks can protect melee stacks from other ranged stacks.

[BLANDCorporatio]

I see Nihila has mostly answered these, and accurately (for the most part, look for bolds where there are differences), but I'll answer the questions myself as well.

1) If you have two leadership units in a stack do the leadership bonus's stack ie the leadership bonus of 1 leader in a stack is 1.1, if there are two does it go to 1.2

No. A stack has the leadership bonus coming from the commander with the highest level- and only that. Well, another source of leadership bonus is the +0.1 from the Chief Warlord, if present in the same hex.

2) do fortifications regain hits at the end of the turn

Yes. The rules are not repair-friendly (a builder can only replace a fortification if the one they can build has more hits than the already existing one- there is no repair clause). In essence, fortifications behave like units- they magically heal each turn.

Seriously guys the keyboard has more than one type of bracket. Try using them, it makes this type of thing infinitly easier to understand.

Well, you seemed to manage fine enough To me it's a matter of taste and background. <>, {} and [] are holy, and must only be used for very special purposes involving high mathematics like group actions. Or code blocks, and matrix indexing.

4) how will the random number in the combat calculation be rolled

Based on the post which ordered the attack (or move through the unscouted hex, in case of ambush): take the time in minutes and seconds, and this generates a random number seed. I'll be doing the battle calcs, but if you want to run them yourself, that would be the method.

5) the rules state that "combat is always between two stacks,an attacker (the stack that is on turn) and a defender". how would combat involving two attacks and one defender, or one attacker and two defenders function, ie do two attacking stacks attack indavidually and then both receive retalation or does the defender only deal one lot of retaliation or can a defender only be attacked by one attacker in any one turn, also if there are two defender can an attacker attack one then the other assuming it survives.

Lots of questions here.

- two attacker stacks may target the same defender stack in the same turn, but they will do so in sequence, not both at once.
- both attacker stacks will in that case receive retaliation from the defender. How much depends on the fatigue factor of the defender.
- an attacker stack may only make one willful attack per turn. You can't order a stack of yours to attack two stacks in the same turn and expect the order to be successful. However, a stack may be ambushed on-route to battle (if it passes through unscouted hexes occupied by the enemy), it can be ambushed on its way away from the battle, and it can be ambushed several times, but only one time for each unscouted, enemy-controlled hex that it passes through.

6) if a single unlead stack attacks a hex with two lead stacks can the defender determine which stack defends

Nope. The stack was presumably given an order to go for one of the enemy stacks, and that's what it will do. There are limits on the order in which stacks can be attacked, but they have nothing to do with defender choice. (Or do they ...)

7) why do we have to attack the ranged stack first and does this only apply to unlead stacks or are command units over ruled in this instance

It applies to any attacking stack whether led or not, or ranged or not. As to why, it's because of turn-based weirdness. Presumably, any ranged units worth anything will rain holy hell on whoever enters the hex and is a foe. OTOH, I wanted to keep battles simple, stack vs. stack. So think of it as providing a diversion for your next attack wave, as it keeps the ranged guards busy while you can now go after whatever you wish.

[BLANDCorporatio]

In other news, I have units from LtDave, Sihoiba and Nihila, HerbieRai, and WaterMonkey314 but my records show no hidden unit for Escotia as of yet. Also, expecting Stryker's units.

The sides are:

Sihoiba, Nihila, HerbieRai

vs.

LtDave, WaterMonkey314, Stryker

Since one of the sides has completely specified their units, how about we start? Meaning, Side A (Sihoiba, Nihila, HerbieRai): think about your starting army composition, and your scouting orders. Unless one of you is Parson, there's no way that you'll bump into Side B on the first turn, so I can gently fudge that while you explore your immediate surroundings.

Which will be *flips coin* the North-West side of the map.

[Stryke]

Since one of the sides has completely specified their units, how about we start?

CURSES MY INDESISIVE BUILDING HAS COST US THE FIRST TURN

Also can you update the OP to include the new sides

[BLANDCorporatio]

Doing some updating on my bookkeeping. Unit spreadsheet now contains the known units from the Genericans and Escotia as well.

In other news, I have the unit design (and secret units) from almost everyone; what still lacks: Watermonkey314's secret unit, Stryker's unit design.

Starting armies: Nihila sent me a starting army ages ago in a PM, for now I'll take that as valid. HerbieRai and Sihoiba have also sent in theirs, however it looks like the Toffs' army has a different cost than player-estimated. I've sent Sihoiba a PM and we'll clarify this asap.

Because of popular demand, here's a few extra notes about the scenario you'll be playing:

Items

Your scouts will see whether an item exists in a hex or not, but unless that item is claimed by a player side, they won't tell you what that item is. There's one exception to this- Gems are immediately identified as such.

To claim an item, a side needs to have a Commander unit in the same hex as the item, and ALL the units there must also belong to that side. Claiming starts upon ending turn, and if successful, that is nobody moved into the hex while that side is off-turn, the item will be given to the claiming side on the start of its next turn. (Usual TBf<> rule, in other words.)

Items are usually uniques. Gems are an exception, and there are a few more. Places where items appear are symmetric on the map, but that doesn't mean that the same item will be in the other hex, of course.

YMMV, but I'd rate the items as reasonably powerful. Two of them in particular.

Critters

You will see that critter stacks belong to factions of their own. These are "dumb" factions: they won't coordinate attacks on you, retreat from your forces etc. But if there are builders/sappers in a hex, they may build forts or lay mines respectively.

All critter factions start neutral to both Player Sides, and they'll let you be; you can even pass through their hexes unambushed. If a Side attacks a critter stack however, all critter stacks of the same faction become hostile to that side however. There's one possible exception-

- that will probably never happen, but just in case. If you move in a hex with a neutral, but not led, stack, you will be forced to fight. This will not make that stack's faction hostile to you however.

Your own unled stacks WILL attack neutral stacks, if they enter a hex with such: ambush if that hex was not scouted, willful attack if it was (and your units cannot willfully attack again that turn). This situation WILL turn the defending, neutral stack's faction against you.

Because the AI is a cheating bastard, neutral walking units do not suffer a -1 Defense penalty when stationed on roads.

Critter stacks are often a mere annoyance- except when guarding something like an item (which they will not let you claim) or a spawn point (likewise), when taking them out will take a bit more muscle than usual.

The strength of individual neutral units is not greater than that of your own units. No gargantuan monsters in there.

Some Commanders of neutral stacks have specials that you cannot choose for your own units. Most of these are joke specials, no in-game effect. Except about three, which you'd like to have available

The above will appear in the OP as well.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Ferrr-derp!

Side A has completed scouting.

I've noticed I didn't put map coordinates in the OP pic, going to correct that now. EDIT: map updated. Columns are letters, and the position in each column is counted from the top downwards.

I also received a few questions on (so far) neutral factions and their behaviour.

1. if I have a led stack that moves into a hex with a neutral, unled stack, it will engage (unless I can "manuever to avoid" on the basis of hits)? Such an engagement will not cause the critters to become hostile?

Also, what if the hex is unscouted? More specifically, if a led stack enters an unscouted hex, what happens if 1) there is a neutral, led stack, or 2) there is a neutral, unled stack?

1. Yes, the unled stack will force a combat, unless you can maneuver to avoid. But in the case that you are forced into combat by an unled neutral stack, other critters of the same faction will not become hostile to you.

2. If there's a led neutral stack, you say hi to each other and maybe share tea and crumpets. I mean, I'll offer you the option to stop right there and slaughter them if you like, but it's not an automatic ambush. If there's an unled stack however, they ambush you.

[Sihoiba]

Where do neutral units go in the turn order?

If a neutral unit has sapping can they have laid traps before the start of the first turn?

[BLANDCorporatio]

Where do neutral units go in the turn order?

If a neutral unit has sapping can they have laid traps before the start of the first turn?

Yes. So we can say they take turns before y'all do

EDIT:

Nobody asked, but you might want to know:

If a neutral side becomes hostile to a player side, the other player side will NOT be informed of this (unless they see the hex with the battle anyway).

[WaterMonkey314]

Now, we wouldn't be able to ally with a critter side, now would we?

[BLANDCorporatio]

Now, we wouldn't be able to ally with a critter side, now would we?

Alas, no. Not in this scenario. It would have been too many new(ish) things thrown in, to put some diplomacy wrangling system in. Next scenario.

[HerbieRai]

Evil Imagination Land has first blood. Although this wasn't against the Generic/ Escotia/ Stryke alliance, it still shows the dominance of Side A's troops.

Side Note: We need a name better than Side A. Awesome Antagonist League? Grand Overlord Alliance? other ideas?

[Nihila]

Imaginary Acid Rain?

[Stryke]

I'd have posted my units and startin garmy by now, but i'm still waiting to hear back from my team mates

[BLANDCorporatio]

I'd have posted my units and startin garmy by now, but i'm still waiting to hear back from my team mates

Ok.

Waiting on Imaginary Acid Rain to make their final move of turn 1 and end it. Btw, Side B (or, hey, pick a new name ) you should get the starting armies done.

[BLANDCorporatio]

I now have starting armies from LtDave and Stryke. My records indicate no secret unit for Watermonkey314, nor a starting army composition.

Incidentally, Stryke's publically known units:

Chieftains (354)

Hits, 5
Attack, 6
Defense, 4
Move, 5
{Walker}
Specials, Leadership, Ranged & Dancefighting

The strongest and bravest of the clan.
Lead their clansmen fearlessly into battle.


Clansmen (93)

Hits, 3
Attack, 4
Defense, 4
Move 5
{Walker}
Specials, Ranged & Dancfighting

Swearing, Spitting, rugged and Dangerous.
The oncoming tartan army.


Caber Tossers (200)

Hits, 4
Attack, 12
Defense, 4
Move, 1
{Walker}
Specials, Siege

The biggest and strongest of the clan.
They wield their cabers with an unstoppable fury.


Kyloes (325)

Hits, 5
Attack, 10
Defence, 4
Move, 5
{Walker}
Specials, Cargo(5)

Strong enough to carry even the largest of creatures.
No object is immovable for these hairy beast.

Updating the google doc with this info.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Got a secret unit from Watermonkey314. Also got a starting army, but there's something wrong with it; corrections asap. <- EDIT: corrected.

In other news, I also have scouting orders for Side B. Meanwhile, Imaginary Acid Rain, choose your remaining movements then end turn, I suppose.

[HerbieRai]

Sohibia is offline until friday at the earliest. His units have yet to move, so I'd let team B go ahead and start unless you see us magically meeting during their turn.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Sohibia is offline until friday at the earliest. His units have yet to move, so I'd let team B go ahead and start unless you see us magically meeting during their turn.

Ok then, doing some simultaneous resolution