Summer Updates - 009

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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Itzal » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:55 am

heh here's another out of the box idea
No, I think for the time being, I'd like to keep you right here in the capital where I can mentor you

what if it's actually the other way around. Stanley just saw Parson save a position he thought there was no possiblity of saving. What if Stanley wants Parson to teach him? BP
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Bobby Archer » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:41 am

Personally, I think most of the impetus behind keeping Parson in GK is so that Stanley can get Parson's genuine loyalty. Wanda's a pretty big threat right now if she wants to be, what with Arkentool, Ansom, and large army. So, Stanley needs something on his side to balance things out. He's got his own Tool, a few dwagons, and probably Jack and Vurp on his side. Not quite enough. So, he sends Ansom and most of the Uncroaked army out - and they'll be out for while, GK used to have another 10 cities on its Side. Meanwhile, he keeps Parson close and starts "mentoring" him, helping Parson learn the rules and customs of Erfworld, hoping this will gain Parson's trust and put him on his side. After all, if Stanley had done this a week ago, Parson probably would have wound up liking him a lot more.

With a little luck, by the time Ansom and the Decrypted army are done, Stanley will have Wanda matched Tool for Tool, and will be able to trump Ansom and the huge army with the guy who just beat Ansom and a huge army.

I think even Stanley realizes that this won't be easy, and it's bound to be even harder than he thinks now that Parson's in his funk. But, it'd be interesting.

Just my own theory to toss into the mix.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby DunkelMentat » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:01 am

We've talked a lot about Wanda being a threat to Stanley. Clearly she has the capability for it. However, I don't think that she'd switch sides without Parson. Wanda just witnessed what has got to be one of the greatest military triumphs, if not THE greatest, in Erfworld history. She was a part of it. She watched Parson turn impossible odds into victory. It was on his orders that she became part of a 3-mancer link that did things only the titans are known to have done. No way is she going to want to fight him after that. If Wanda turns on Stanley it will ONLY be alongside Parson, so long as he's alive.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Bobby Archer » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:40 am

I'd have to agree that I don't see Wanda switching sides or starting her own side any time soon, and certainly not if the odds aren't already in her favor. I'm not trying to predict what she's going to do next, because we have no idea what it is she's after. If the Prediction she received in Faq ended with her getting an Arkentool, then she's kind of at a loose end at the moment and, since we've only seen her when she's had that goal driving her, we can't know what she'll do in her own interest. If there was more to the Prediction, then she's pursuing goals we know nothing about (but are likely very big and pointy and scary). Betting on Wanda's actions is a losing proposition.

My post above was trying to examine the situation from Stanley's perspective. We've seen that he's a bit wary of Wanda and her army and he'd have to be a bigger idiot than he is to not be planning for the worst case scenario.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby moose o death » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:19 am

i've been saying this since page 2 but people seem to be starting to come around now. stanley isn't exactly an idiot, he did capture those other cities once. maybe he brute forced it, maybe not. either way he once ruled many cities.

he's avoided making himself replaceable.
he made the trimancer link for the eyebooks and the strategy table

he saved the extra 150,000 schmukers that enabled GK to actually maintain the chief warlord. who knows if they still had any income at all before hand it would explain the low number of defensive units.

and now he's sending a potentially disloyal army off on an errand to hopefully kill them all off while he prepares a real force. the feint of proclaiming ansom chief warlord helps make usre they gain all the cities involved still. if they succeed good result, if they fail....good result. if they turn they are far away and will have to assualt the warlord that beat them the last time.

stanley may be an idiot. but i don't see this move really backfiring on him. the worst case scenario is wanda keeps building her decrypted army. but if stanley keeps her in the capital that will not happen at all. if she turns on him from within i doubt it'd go well for her. the arkenpliers are only overpowered if you get a hold of them after an enormous war has ended. we still don't know if they can make units. it seems unlikely.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby raphfrk » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:28 am

Bobby Archer wrote:If the Prediction she received in Faq ended with her getting an Arkentool, then she's kind of at a loose end at the moment and, since we've only seen her when she's had that goal driving her, we can't know what she'll do in her own interest. If there was more to the Prediction, then she's pursuing goals we know nothing about (but are likely very big and pointy and scary).


At the end of book 1, she tells Parson that he also has a path, including more losses, so I think there was more to the prediction. Ofc, everyone ultimately has a path.

It would be ironic if the Prediction was that similar to Janis' plan and ultimately. everything Wanda's did, she did to secure peace for Erfworld.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby gameboy1234 » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:53 am

Why would it be ironic? Because you assume Wanda wants war and violence?

Wanda seems to have followed her fate out of a sense of duty, not because she actually wished for it. She felt she had to fulfill her fate. She did not look pleased when she told her tale to Parson. Instead, she seemed rather sad about it. Remember what Wanda said to Parson, you didn't wish for this world, it wished for you? Well Wanda was the one casting the spell. I think some of her own wishes came into it, regardless of what other criteria Stanley gave to her.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Inst » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:15 pm

I don't feel at all unsympathetic towards Stanley for ditching Parson as Chief Warlord; relations between Stanley and Parson were never good, whereas Ansom has a chance of being Stanley's man.

Aside from that, Ansom isn't all that incompetent; compared to Parson, Parson is probably 99th percentile for Erfworld, Ansom is 90 or 95. Ansom is perfectly competent at the tasks he's being provided with, and if the situation becomes critical Stanley can just reinstate Parson.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby atteSmythe » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:18 pm

moose o death wrote:i've been saying this since page 2 but people seem to be starting to come around now. stanley isn't exactly an idiot, he did capture those other cities once. maybe he brute forced it, maybe not. either way he once ruled many cities.

I wonder. Though there's not much evidence either way, my impression was that he inherited those cities from Saline IV, and that since starting his crusade, he'd been completely unsuccessful.

Actually, rereading that page, that seems to be exactly what Wanda's saying. Personally, I think many people in this thread are giving Stanley way too much credit. Even if benching Parson ends up being a good move, it won't be because of canny political maneuvering on the Tool's part.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby DunkelMentat » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:30 pm

Bobby Archer wrote:My post above was trying to examine the situation from Stanley's perspective. We've seen that he's a bit wary of Wanda and her army and he'd have to be a bigger idiot than he is to not be planning for the worst case scenario.

Yes, that's how I read it and I agree. My post was something I'd been thinking about since the battle for GK ended and has been reinforced since then. It seemed relevant to this thread.
moose o death wrote:i've been saying this since page 2 but people seem to be starting to come around now. stanley isn't exactly an idiot, he did capture those other cities once. maybe he brute forced it, maybe not. either way he once ruled many cities.
...
stanley may be an idiot. but i don't see this move really backfiring on him.

I thought of Stanley as an idiot for longer than you did but I've come to a different view. Stanley isn't an idiot, he has a personality disorder. I would specifically diagnose him as having Narcissistic Personality Disorder. (NOTE: I am a neurobiologist, not a psychologist.)
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby SteveMB » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:45 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:Why would it be ironic? Because you assume Wanda wants war and violence?

Well, it's hard to be a Croakamancer without corpses to work with. That said, Wanda's motivations are probably nowhere near that simple and straightforward....
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby raphfrk » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:43 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:Why would it be ironic? Because you assume Wanda wants war and violence?


Because she is portrayed as ruthless and manipulative and her caster type is an "evil" type.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Prometheus » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:56 pm

raphfrk wrote:
gameboy1234 wrote:Why would it be ironic? Because you assume Wanda wants war and violence?


Because she is portrayed as ruthless and manipulative and her caster type is an "evil" type.

I think one of the whole points of Erfworld is that nothing is inherently evil. For instance, Bogroll was a twoll (troll), a traditionally evil race. However, he broke that stereotype pretty quickly.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby simkin » Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:51 am

sooo, I'm new here, and i haven't managed to read every post everywhere as of yet, so forgive me if i repeat things...

First, great comic, must be said

Second, I'm curious how much we actually know about decrypted units. We've seen they retain many of their previous incarnations attributes. Prince Ansom in particular is a curious case. He WAS royal...is he now? Can he in fact branch of and create a new side (for Wanda?) should GK become to big (say after retaking many cities). I seem to remember that in the case of Royals, they were allowed to do that. He WAS an heir to Jetstone, is he still an heir there? Or maybe he was reclassified as an heir to GK as a side effect of his rebirth?

3rd, random thought which should probably go somewhere else, but it effects Stanley's motivations... is anyone sure if it is even possible for someone to wield more than one akentool? and...is there any reason a person cannot be an arkentool? Be kinda funny if after first entering the world Parson talks Stanley into calling himself a tool, when Parson actually IS an akentool >>

I want to see Ansom attacking other cities...on a Dwagon...while dancefighting with the decrypted archons
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Danny the Tool » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:45 am

This i smy first comment, but I have followed the comic closely since start, love it.

I dont belive "decrypted" units are all that good, they cant be, tht would unbalance the game.

Erfworld was a balanced game before Parson, and the "Wanda-Pliers" effect is a traditional erfworld thing, not a "parson effect".

Free units without a cost ? Everything comes at a price, but who is paying it, and when ?

Perhaps the upkeep is paid via Wandas upkeep ? First time Stanley looks at Wandas stats he will go through the roof, her upkeep is now that of an entire army ?

Or perhaps they are still payed for by their old owner, once they find out, they will just disband them, if they have the heart to do it?

Or perhaps they are free, but bound to only roam a few hex`es from their place of de-crypting ?
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Dyne » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:09 am

Danny the Tool wrote:This i smy first comment, but I have followed the comic closely since start, love it.

I dont belive "decrypted" units are all that good, they cant be, tht would unbalance the game.

Erfworld was a balanced game before Parson, and the "Wanda-Pliers" effect is a traditional erfworld thing, not a "parson effect".

Free units without a cost ? Everything comes at a price, but who is paying it, and when ?

Perhaps the upkeep is paid via Wandas upkeep ? First time Stanley looks at Wandas stats he will go through the roof, her upkeep is now that of an entire army ?

Or perhaps they are still payed for by their old owner, once they find out, they will just disband them, if they have the heart to do it?

Or perhaps they are free, but bound to only roam a few hex`es from their place of de-crypting ?


As a rule, Artifacts tend to incorporate game-breaking mechanics to a game. It's why they're almost always plot-critical. ;)

As for them being "game-breaking", the term doesn't really apply here, since ErfWorld isn't a game in as much as a world with game-like qualities. There's no Floating Titan in the Sky (that we know of) that ensures that no side gets too large an advantage. In fact, we've already shown Gobwin Knob has a number of "Unballanced" advantages as is. Dwagons, the Lava lake, Parson...

I agree that no power should come without a price, but we're not going to see that price for a while yet. It may not even be a price in the terms we're thinking of. After all, Wanda's sacrificed a lot to get to where she is today. That's been a price to her power. Is there more to come? Probably. Is she going to be able (or willing) to pay said price for power? I'm almost certain she won't bat an eye.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby moose o death » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:21 am

yeah i'm willing to believe this is the case.

wanda strikes me as a whatever gets in my way, i'll do what it takes, to get where i want to be. she slept with stanley to prevent him prematurely disbanding parson. we find out now for the sole reason that the perfect warlord was necesary to her getting an arkentool. stanley was losing cities he captured as the chief warlord to saline IV. it's likely wanda was leading the next known arkentool to herself by causing each subsequent battle to fail funneling ansom towards herself.

we know of one other and rob has planned another known arkentool. with the potential for a large number more undiscovered until the story needs a new antagonist with great power to overcome. wanda never cared about stanley's end result she has always just wanted that arkentool...whichever one it may be. she invited stanley to FAQ with the intention he would be defeated and his arkentool would fall to her. don't give her any credit for doing anything selfless. she will manipulate every thing to her advantage if she can.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby moose o death » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:27 am

one other avenue not regularly explored is that the arentools really are only able to attune to certain individuals. once all the arkentools are attuned the individuals involved will somehow need to come together to reform erfworld anew. but this is pure speculaton. maybe they all need to hate distrust each other to bring about the world changing peace parson is supposed to be attached too. maybe he is the common thread and his admiration and respect is what will bring the disparate peoples of erfworld together.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Pax » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:54 am

raphfrk wrote:
gameboy1234 wrote:Why would it be ironic? Because you assume Wanda wants war and violence?


Because she is portrayed as ruthless and manipulative and her caster type is an "evil" type.

Necromancy need not be evil. Or, well, "Croakamancy" in Erfworld terms. Generally, it PROBABLY is ... but not necessarily.

Much like fire ... it matters more what you DO with the tool in question, than, the nature of that tool itself.
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Re: Summer Updates - 009

Postby Goshen » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:58 pm

All along, I have cherished the thought that Stanley is a total boop-tard when it comes to strategy, but I have to admit moose-o-death makes some very convincing points. It helps that Stanley has mostly good options, now. If Stanley is maneuvering to protect himself from his underlings (chiefly Wanda) that might slow down his world-conquest ambitions. GK could end up like the Roman Empire in the second half, where no Emperor after Augustus would allow any general to make any conquests for fear of being deposed.
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