Book 2 – Page 57

[nth]

The Arkenhammer is a soft plastic toy of the kind that toddlers are given to pound in pegs on a toy workbench. In our world such hammers don't do any real damage.

The Arkenhammer appears to be the kind of squeaky hammer you see in the first image here:
http://www.google.com/images?q=squeaky+hammer

Not only do those do no damage when wielded as hammers*, they diminish the force of any blow so that you can't even pound pegs effectively.

*They are extremely dangerous when used for stabbing daddy, or when left as a tripping hazard.

[No one in particular]

You may be forgetting the limitations of the portals. Only casters and Parson can pass through them.

I have a theory about that, (namely: it's not true), which, in hindsight, I may have been allowing to color my arguments. I apologize for that. Since I was using it as a basis for some of my ideas, I should have mentioned and detailed it. Such an omission is nothing but a hindrance to communication and discourse.

[...]Um, the 'hammer allows you to tame any number of dwagon in a turn. Dwagons being one of the most potent unit types, this is amazing enough. Add in Van de Graff and Stop! Hammertime, and the 'hammer is the "different but equal" of the other two arkentools. I still lean towards the 'dish having the upper hand, potency-size, but the other two are not children to the 'dishes parent, by any stretch.

I just don't see "taming dwagons" as being in the same category as "unmatched thinkamancy" and "unmatched croakamancy". Dwagons are the special unit that goes with the tool, like the archons to the dish and the decrypted to the pliers. They may all be powerful units, but they're not what makes the tools so amazing. As for Van de Graff and Hammertime, those just look like shockamancy blasts. Again, powerful, but not quite the Titan-level of power an arkentool should have. Seriously, it should do something really game-changing, beyond just being a powerful weapon and allowing access to a special mount.

[the_tick_rules]

Course the stan man just said he isn't using the full potential of the hammer, who knows what it can do when he figures it out?

[multilis]

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -11-13.jpg

"Forbidden by convention... You don't send a caster from the magic kingdom to enter a city you don't control" - Sizemore

I took that as meaning if they did control Jetstone, it would be possible to go between GK and Jetstone by portal, that all capital cities have portals rather than just the current capital. ("a city you don't control" is vague compared to "other than your capital")

In past it seems suggested that certain cities are special status as "capitals", I took that as meaning they have all the special buildings/items such as portals, rather than portal popping into existence then disappearing each time a ruler changed his main capital.

[Oberon]

You may be forgetting the limitations of the portals. Only casters and Parson can pass through them.

I have a theory about that, (namely: it's not true), [...]

Well, I'd like to hear why you think this. Given the example of Bea using the portal as a method of suicide, and given Parson's statement that he didn't know why he didn't disband upon using the portal, it seems clear that the portals can and do kill non-casters who use them.

As for Van de Graff and Hammertime, those just look like shockamancy blasts. Again, powerful, but not quite the Titan-level of power an arkentool should have. Seriously, it should do something really game-changing, beyond just being a powerful weapon and allowing access to a special mount.

A power which neither of the other tools have en equivalent for. Archons are not a mount (minds out of the gutter!), and decrypting doesn't specifically give you a mount. And Stanley's last musings indicate that the 'hammer has other powers which Stanley cannot consciously control.

[gameboy1234]

The Arkenhammer is a soft plastic toy of the kind that toddlers are given to pound in pegs on a toy workbench. In our world such hammers don't do any real damage.

The Arkenhammer appears to be the kind of squeaky hammer you see in the first image here:

I always thought the Arkenhammer was modeled on a croquet mallet, which those two other hammers are themselves modeled on.

[No one in particular]

Well, I'd like to hear why you think this. Given the example of Bea using the portal as a method of suicide, and given Parson's statement that he didn't know why he didn't disband upon using the portal, it seems clear that the portals can and do kill non-casters who use them.

Well, in short, my theory is this: the portals don't kill people, the casters on the other side do. In order to protect their neutral meeting ground, the inhabitants of the Magic Kingdom kill anyone who enters who isn't a caster. Parson's stats are invisible, so they didn't know what to do with him, and only stunned him. Queen Bea was a single unit, surrounded by casters from other sides, who promptly blasted her. I originally had the idea over on the wiki.

As for Van de Graff and Hammertime, those just look like shockamancy blasts. Again, powerful, but not quite the Titan-level of power an arkentool should have. Seriously, it should do something really game-changing, beyond just being a powerful weapon and allowing access to a special mount.

A power which neither of the other tools have en equivalent for. Archons are not a mount (minds out of the gutter!), and decrypting doesn't specifically give you a mount. And Stanley's last musings indicate that the 'hammer has other powers which Stanley cannot consciously control.

When I said mount, I was speaking specifically about the hammer. I didn't mean the other tools got mounts. And with that last line, you've hit the nail on the head: the hammer does more stuff we don't know about yet. I just figure that one of the things it does will be something ridiculously powerful at no cost. The 'dish allows for unmatched thinkamancy, with no drain on juice or limit on range. The 'pliers allow for unmatched croakamancy, with no drain on the treasury for upkeep or limit on the units being decrypted. The hammer... well, we'll have to wait and see.

[Smoker]

Well, in short, my theory is this: the portals don't kill people, the casters on the other side do.

Which could be true, although I find it hard to swallow because:

1) Everytime we've seen Portal Park (bar that one time when Parson was there) it seems to be lacking in anything that could be called a guard. I would imagine giant golems and shockamancers in nifty uniforms at each portal.

2) If there were guards (perhaps veiled?) then we haven't seen any ruling body that might be paying their upkeep.

3) Duty must have compelled some unit to have spilled the beans to their ruler at some stage. Moreover, the Casters could probably offer it as a service. They could have ushered the whole of Unaroyal through the portals over to Jetstone, and Queen bea could have had them all turn (heck she could have turned) and then razed her Capital.

But I mean, its possible that the guards are under veil, that there is someone paying them to be there, and that there is some magic or stat at play which prevents Casters from reporting what they know back to the Rulers.. its possible... but its a lot of ifs...

[No one in particular]

Which could be true, although I find it hard to swallow because:

1) Everytime we've seen Portal Park (bar that one time when Parson was there) it seems to be lacking in anything that could be called a guard. I would imagine giant golems and shockamancers in nifty uniforms at each portal.

All the casters who just happen to be wandering around? They're the guards. Remember how quickly the wands were out when Parson came through?

2) If there were guards (perhaps veiled?) then we haven't seen any ruling body that might be paying their upkeep.

I imagine it would be more of a volunteer thing. Everyone takes a turn keeping an eye on the portals when they can, maybe earn some rands that way. Alternately, maybe that's what the barbarian casters do when they're not being hired. I mean, not like they have anything else to do, right?

3) Duty must have compelled some unit to have spilled the beans to their ruler at some stage. Moreover, the Casters could probably offer it as a service. They could have ushered the whole of Unaroyal through the portals over to Jetstone, and Queen bea could have had them all turn (heck she could have turned) and then razed her Capital.

Why should they be compelled? There's already the reputation in place that non-caster + portal = croaked, most rulers aren't curious about this sort of thing and wouldn't ask, the casters have no reason to volunteer it. As for offering it as a service, if they did that then they'd be opening themselves up to possible invasion. By keeping it exclusive, they have kept it peaceful and private.

[multilis]

On theory that anyone can enter magic kingdom, I also gave that as possibility long ago.

Secrets: thinkomancers have hidden many of their abilities from entire erfworld, so mancer secrets are possible if no one asks questions.

Since going through portal is believed suicide and few commit suicide that way, it is even possible that most mancers don't know and believe the "myth". Magic kingdom has enough thinkomancers and others that they may be able to make casters "forget" or buy their silence one way or another for the few outside their inner secret society.

Charlie probably would know, and if his archons can get into magic kingdom, he may have an extortion racket over the magic kingdom.

...

One other possibility is that it requires a certain "special" to go through a portal which can be added to other types of units through magic. (Which could make hammer more useful) One example of this is age of wonders 3, where some units have an advantage going into an extra level called the shadow realm... for some it comes automatic, for others you can add it for a price.

...

If portals allow more types of units to go through and game not to be broken, there would need to be some sort of limit on how many at a time so a defender could protect their capital by posting a guard at the portal that could slaughter an invasion.

Then magic kingdom would originally be a "king of the hill" situation where one side could try to control it but then face attacks from all non allied kingdoms (much easier to guard 1 portal compared to 100). I have seen multiplayer games with maps like this, one very valuable choke spot, and whoever is able to successfully hold it for a while wins but hard because everyone else will go after you.

[boegiboe]

I think it is worth noting that Stanley's hammer isn't really a hammer... it's a child's toy that resembles a hammer. Given that, I suspect that the only limitation on the Hammer's power is Stanley's imagination.

The Arkenhammer is a croquet mallet, which, though some children may play with it, is not a child's toy in general.

Actually, the Arkenhammer is not a croquet mallet, it *is* a toy. My son, who just turned 11 today, had that exact toy when he was around three years old.

Here is an example, just with different colors.http://www.alljewishlinks.com/wp-content/uploads/images/azr/d101%20large.jpg

I stand corrected. Never saw one of those before. But Stanley is holding it out here in a way that makes it clear it's the toy hammer, not a croquet mallet.

[zilfallon]

I'm not really with the theory "portals don't kill, casters kill".

Since going through portal is believed suicide and few commit suicide that way, it is even possible that most mancers don't know and believe the "myth". Magic kingdom has enough thinkomancers and others that they may be able to make casters "forget" or buy their silence one way or another for the few outside their inner secret society.

I mean, look at all this trouble needed to accomplish that. It would be easier to just make a portal which kills non-casters, instead of manually croaking visitors and concealing the truth and such.

[kagato23]

Another problem with this theory is Duty. Queen Bea just sent her casters through the portal, then croaked herself using it. If she had enough cooperation from her casters to believe they would keep to the pledge to only serve royal sides when she was gone, their duty/loyalty must have been decent. Decent enough that Vanna and Co probably wouldn't be around, because they'd no doubt have come to the defense of their queen when they realized she was in hex and still alive.

Sometimes it's easier to just believe what's been put in front of you. The portal croaks non casters. Though I do think it's Parson's stats rather than any magic that makes him what he is. The portals have a "is this a caster? Y/N" protocol, which disbands anything that's not Y. But Parson shows up as a "*" or something on the protocol, so it just flashes ERROR and doesn't activate the croaking.

I think if it was a conscious caster thing, than he'd have been croaked before they could think about it. The casters would see he's not one of theirs, and that'd be enough. Some would be curiuos as to what he was, but at least one would have been shooting instead of hesitation. They hesitated precisely because this had never happened before. The fact that he had a patron speak for him is still probably what saved his life, that and the fact he was incapacitated.

[Lamech]

I mean, look at all this trouble needed to accomplish that. It would be easier to just make a portal which kills non-casters, instead of manually croaking visitors and concealing the truth and such.

This. Even if the portals couldn't autodisband people the casters could simply trap the hell out of the park. The casters could definitly set up the MK so if any non-caster steps through they are immediatly blasted into ash, by the portal they just walked through. There are enough casters in the MK to make the GK's tower spells look weak by comparison. If it wasn't some form of insta-death eventually some caster would get the idea to save their ruler by attempting a mad-dash through the MK to a friendly side.
P.S. I think its auto-disbanding.

Though I do think it's Parson's stats rather than any magic that makes him what he is. The portals have a "is this a caster? Y/N" protocol, which disbands anything that's not Y. But Parson shows up as a "*" or something on the protocol, so it just flashes ERROR and doesn't activate the croaking.

If they disbanded "not-Y"'s and Parson showed up as "error" he would have been disbanded. It would have had to disband "N"'s; "error" is neither an N nor a Y. Its minor most of the time but possibly important difference. Also two other possiblities are it classed Parson as a caster, (correctly or not), or it tried to disband Parson and failed.

[Berserkas]

ometimes it's easier to just believe what's been put in front of you. The portal croaks non casters. Though I do think it's Parson's stats rather than any magic that makes him what he is. The portals have a "is this a caster? Y/N" protocol, which disbands anything that's not Y. But Parson shows up as a "*" or something on the protocol, so it just flashes ERROR and doesn't activate the croaking.

'M pretty sure the portal doesn't croak people. It disbands them. That's kinda like croaking, but you de-pop while still alive. Or you die a milisecond before. Or something like that.

Meh. I had a theory once why Parson didn't disband. And that he cannot even be disbanded, like he himself thought. Reason?

What happens when you disband? You depop, like i said (I imagine that's what happens, anyway, since we haven't seen any actual disbandings yet).

Can Parson depop? No. Why? He hasn't been popped in the first place. He has been born. Brought up. He grew up. That's why i'm pretty sure that if Stanley actually tried to disband him, he'd either: become Barbarion/get back to his universe. But that won't happen (plot and all that), so we might never know.

And yeah, the "ERROR" theory fits with mine pretty well, i think.

[Jinren]

One thing that comes to mind just now is that it might not be the portals, but the Magic Kingdom itself that doesn't permit non-casters to exist in it. The distinction is minor but does have a few implications. e.g. Do we actually know (forgive me if this is actually a known thing) where it is? It could be off-Erf in a slightly altered plane of reality where the rules are slightly different (the reason I wonder is because society there seems much more like Stupidworld - people work and have to grow food, currency is just currency etc.).

It also leaves open the possibility of a combination of both ideas: perhaps in the early days of the world the Magic Kingdom wasn't sacrosanct or neutral, but the barbarian casters wanted a neutral home for themselves so the Great Minds set up some kind of permanent enchantment using a set of linked casters on "guard duty"; it automatically fries anyone who comes through right after they appear (we also know that three linked casters are unspeakably powerful, and that there are many barbarian casters and powerful Thinkamancers in the Magic KIngdom; they could have set up something even bigger, say five or ten linked casters, to defend their home).

[Stuv]

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F140.jpg

But he's a hippiemancer. Right? That would make this moot, unless I missed the part where her statement is taken back / rendered incorrect.

[No one in particular]

One thing that comes to mind just now is that it might not be the portals, but the Magic Kingdom itself that doesn't permit non-casters to exist in it. The distinction is minor but does have a few implications. e.g. Do we actually know (forgive me if this is actually a known thing) where it is? It could be off-Erf in a slightly altered plane of reality where the rules are slightly different (the reason I wonder is because society there seems much more like Stupidworld - people work and have to grow food, currency is just currency etc.).

It also leaves open the possibility of a combination of both ideas: perhaps in the early days of the world the Magic Kingdom wasn't sacrosanct or neutral, but the barbarian casters wanted a neutral home for themselves so the Great Minds set up some kind of permanent enchantment using a set of linked casters on "guard duty"; it automatically fries anyone who comes through right after they appear (we also know that three linked casters are unspeakably powerful, and that there are many barbarian casters and powerful Thinkamancers in the Magic KIngdom; they could have set up something even bigger, say five or ten linked casters, to defend their home).

The only problem with that is, according to Sizemore a four-way link can't even be done. (Here.)

[splintermute]

As for Van de Graff and Hammertime, those just look like shockamancy blasts. Again, powerful, but not quite the Titan-level of power an arkentool should have. Seriously, it should do something really game-changing, beyond just being a powerful weapon and allowing access to a special mount.

A power which neither of the other tools have en equivalent for. Archons are not a mount (minds out of the gutter!), and decrypting doesn't specifically give you a mount. And Stanley's last musings indicate that the 'hammer has other powers which Stanley cannot consciously control.

When I said mount, I was speaking specifically about the hammer. I didn't mean the other tools got mounts. And with that last line, you've hit the nail on the head: the hammer does more stuff we don't know about yet. I just figure that one of the things it does will be something ridiculously powerful at no cost. The 'dish allows for unmatched thinkamancy, with no drain on juice or limit on range. The 'pliers allow for unmatched croakamancy, with no drain on the treasury for upkeep or limit on the units being decrypted. The hammer... well, we'll have to wait and see.

The hammer doesn't just provide mounts, the hammer IS a mount (see Book 1, pg. 31). The tool that seems most underpowered so far relative to the others is the pliers - the others provide a special unit + have other abilities. So far all we've seen from the pliers is the special unit (and possibly the ability to dust said special unit, although we don't know if they retain that power in Wanda's hands).

[A Predictamancer]

Well, I'd like to hear why you think this. Given the example of Bea using the portal as a method of suicide, and given Parson's statement that he didn't know why he didn't disband upon using the portal, it seems clear that the portals can and do kill non-casters who use them.

Well, in short, my theory is this: the portals don't kill people, the casters on the other side do. In order to protect their neutral meeting ground, the inhabitants of the Magic Kingdom kill anyone who enters who isn't a caster. Parson's stats are invisible, so they didn't know what to do with him, and only stunned him. Queen Bea was a single unit, surrounded by casters from other sides, who promptly blasted her. I originally had the idea over on the wiki.

As for Van de Graff and Hammertime, those just look like shockamancy blasts. Again, powerful, but not quite the Titan-level of power an arkentool should have. Seriously, it should do something really game-changing, beyond just being a powerful weapon and allowing access to a special mount.

A power which neither of the other tools have en equivalent for. Archons are not a mount (minds out of the gutter!), and decrypting doesn't specifically give you a mount. And Stanley's last musings indicate that the 'hammer has other powers which Stanley cannot consciously control.

When I said mount, I was speaking specifically about the hammer. I didn't mean the other tools got mounts. And with that last line, you've hit the nail on the head: the hammer does more stuff we don't know about yet. I just figure that one of the things it does will be something ridiculously powerful at no cost. The 'dish allows for unmatched thinkamancy, with no drain on juice or limit on range. The 'pliers allow for unmatched croakamancy, with no drain on the treasury for upkeep or limit on the units being decrypted. The hammer... well, we'll have to wait and see.

The hammer offers unmatched Carnymancy. Lion-er, Dwagon, taming is the simplest of these powers. Look to what is known of Carnymancy in that world with the stupid spelling of "erf."