Summer Updates - 010

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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby doran » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:20 pm

I don't want to nitpick, but where is Vinny's cape?
He seems to be wearing a black sleeveless vest.
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby moose o death » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:23 pm

we still don't know the specifics of popping casters and whether it's order for caster level, whether you order specific schools, or if you orderspecific types of caster. there could be all sorts of silent running rules on caster creation to limit your sides getting overpowered. maybe it's 5 per city, maybe it's an awarded unit and not requestable at all.

maybe casters choose to belong to a side. and pop themselves.

all speculative at this stage

i'm sure i'm not the only one but probably fairly outnumbered regardless, but i just don't care about jillian's problems. i want to hear from charles comm, i want to see what gobwin knobbs next turn reveals. i just have no investment in jillian and the transylvito's. i find stanley humourous, i like charles and parson making snide remarks about each others performance. but jillian and transylvito all just seem constantly moody and uncooperative. even ansom and rcc were more fun to watch. i'll wait and see if rob makes them more entertaining over the course of "summer"
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby Sieggy » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:52 pm

Is this all the same turn that the blue dwagon popped, Wanda decrypted Ansom, Parson cursed, and Stanley returned? I'm assuming so, since the headers that far have it as TBfGK +1. Given that, I don't know how anyone, either Charley or Don King could be aware that GK has been rebuilt, Stanley is back, or that Wanda has done her thing. Given that Jack is there, I'm also assuming that he's capable of veiling everything so that lookamancy would only see carnage.

Or is there kind of a 'metagame' awareness of what is going on? Stanley had no idea what happened until Maggie contacted him, so how is it that anyone else was aware that Ansom had croaked? I can't see anyone reporting back in the middle of trying to avenge their fallen warlord, what with a pitched battles going on and all that . . . If there were no warlord survivors of the Mt. Doom eruption who had communications ability, how is everyone aware of what transpired? The last thing anyone (that being Charley) knew was happening was TPK, and then <blink> no further communications. Charley would be aware of his losses, via the Arkendish I would guess, but unless he put the word out, everyone else should be completely in the dark.

The blue Dwagon was popped at the same time as Caesar told Jillian of the change of plans (dawn), which is before GK was rebuilt or anything else. So all Don King knows is that the Erf equivalent of a nuke went off at GK. I'm just curious as to how they're getting their field reports and intel . . .
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby teratorn » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:14 pm

Itzal wrote:The thing is is that nobody not in Gobwin Knob knows any of this. the fact that gobwin knob had their turn at dawn means that their units were the only ones in the area.


There may be special rules for scouts or assassin units. It would pretty easy to know if there's an enemy spy in the hex if that meant your turn didn't start or end at dawn or dusk.

This scene is too early in the day. Even if they have a lookamancer, they're probably not aware yet of the huge decrypted force, and in particular of the flying units available. But the Don is aware that they're a target now. In his shoes I'm not sure I would allocate resources to secure Faq, it might be better to "give" it to Jillian as long as she is forced by contract to build an army capable of helping Transylvito. The emphasis on Royal Highness makes me think they are going to force her to claim the ruins.
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby Anton Gaist » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:27 am

Sieggy wrote:Is this all the same turn that the blue dwagon popped, Wanda decrypted Ansom, Parson cursed, and Stanley returned? I'm assuming so, since the headers that far have it as TBfGK +1. Given that, I don't know how anyone, either Charley or Don King could be aware that GK has been rebuilt, Stanley is back, or that Wanda has done her thing. Given that Jack is there, I'm also assuming that he's capable of veiling everything so that lookamancy would only see carnage.

Or is there kind of a 'metagame' awareness of what is going on? Stanley had no idea what happened until Maggie contacted him, so how is it that anyone else was aware that Ansom had croaked? I can't see anyone reporting back in the middle of trying to avenge their fallen warlord, what with a pitched battles going on and all that . . . If there were no warlord survivors of the Mt. Doom eruption who had communications ability, how is everyone aware of what transpired? The last thing anyone (that being Charley) knew was happening was TPK, and then <blink> no further communications. Charley would be aware of his losses, via the Arkendish I would guess, but unless he put the word out, everyone else should be completely in the dark.

The blue Dwagon was popped at the same time as Caesar told Jillian of the change of plans (dawn), which is before GK was rebuilt or anything else. So all Don King knows is that the Erf equivalent of a nuke went off at GK. I'm just curious as to how they're getting their field reports and intel . . .


From what I can see, this is taking place while the Tool and Jack are still disguised as trees.

Now, Thinkamancers are not field units, and the RCC has more than one. Transylvito has one, so does Unaroyal, and other sides might have their own too. It would have made sense for them to be in contact with their commanding units during the final attack, and probably got a final transmission of the "I can taste key lime pie" variety.

Caesar knows Ansom was croaked because Bunny told him in page 138. Each side would have known at the end of their turn how many units they had lost, and since the RCC kept in touch, they quickly pieced together what they thought had happened, a "single Dirtamancy trap across multiple hexes".
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby DunkelMentat » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:54 am

To those criticizing Caesar: you're crazy. Look at that picture! I love Caesar.
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby Kallisti » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:48 am

They don't necessarily know that GK was destroyed, only that they lost all units. When faced with a new superweapon, its possible they assumed the worst (IE, one that took out their side but not GKs).

Given that, they need a symbol to rally a new coalition around, and a side that fell to Stanley despite never having hurt anyone is potentially a powerful political tool (given enough time a side that everyone was originally glad Stanley wiped out could be used too, I've seen both used when forming coalitions in games), Jillian might be pushed into taking FAQ over and revealing it simply to hype up how horrible Stanley is.

Another thought might be that the King is afraid he'll lose the claim to FAQ with the old coalition gone, and wants Jillian in place as an ally he can abandon if holding FAQ gets too rough, instead of blowing his own troops.
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby Lemarc » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:00 am

SuperSkimMilk wrote:
In this kingdom, the perqs always went to whoever got the job done.


Typo, or previously unencountered reward system?


Perq is short for perquisite. So, technically speaking, it's a more correct spelling than perk, even though next to no one uses it.
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby HandofShadows » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:56 am

raphfrk wrote:That could actually make them a target if Parson or Stanley starts complaining about the need for a lookamancer, so they can reform the table.


I think that Parson would oppose the re-creation of the table. He knows the cost of the trimancer spell and does not want to loose anyone else.
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby moose o death » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:16 am

he also knows it can be undone if he orders the trimancer into the magic kingdom.

i'm sure they wont like that. but the trimancer was probably set up for dozens maybe hundreds of turns so i doubt if they DID set the table back up they would undo it without a very good reason.
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:12 am

teratorn wrote:There may be special rules for scouts or assassin units. It would pretty easy to know if there's an enemy spy in the hex if that meant your turn didn't start or end at dawn or dusk.


They only know that a enemy unit is somewhere in the "battlespace", whatever that is. But maybe that is what turnamancy can do: give the ability to move on someone else's turn. Imagine: itmes, made by a foolamancer-turnamancer-link. Incredible powerful. Attack invisible and unexpected. (If turnamancy is what I supposed.)
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby raphfrk » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:38 am

HandofShadows wrote:I think that Parson would oppose the re-creation of the table. He knows the cost of the trimancer spell and does not want to loose anyone else.


Fair enough. However, I think that the table would be very helpful in allowing him to command from GK. I think that the benefits outweigh the costs.

In principle, orders can be conveyed through Maggie verbally (and descriptions returned), this is much slower than how the table managed it.

Also. there is the whole "a picture tells a thousand words" effect.

With a table, Parson doesn't have to keep asking for the status of a given hex, he just has to look at the board.

I think that something similar to Parson personally commanding the fight over the lake would be much harder without the table.

Basically, the level at which he can command is raised without the table. He would still be able to handle grand strategy, but not the low-level tactical stuff. This makes GK more dependent on the quality of their warlords for second to second tactics.

The cost of the table are that Maggie would cease to be available as an advisor. However, he would still gain full use of her thinkamancy skills. (Assuming that she can still connect to enemy units).

Jack's skills are probably completely used up in maintaining the table. I wonder if the table would be usable for long range foolamancy.

Finally, the required new lookamancer is not available for any other tasks. However, the table represents a major boost in the ability of the lookamancer, so actually this isn't a really a loss. Unless lookamancers have additional skills unrelated to obtaining long range info, then there is no loss in having a lookamancer in the link.

Thus, the costs are loss of Maggie as an advisor and loss of Jack as a potential field unit (and maybe advisor too). Given that casters are only used in battle in exception circumstances, this isn't much of a loss.

In any case, it is a mute point unless they can get their hands on a lookamancer.

Another issue is how loyalty works in a link. Would linking to an turned enemy unit risk that the resulting trimancer be potentially disloyal. Could the lookamancer "accidentally" exclude some info.

Also, how do levels work for a trimancer. Maggie and Jack are presumably both master class, would a link with a level 1 newly popped lookamancer be viable. Perhaps, it would result in the link having a very short range. Also, do casters in the link level up.

moose o death wrote:he also knows it can be undone if he orders the trimancer into the magic kingdom.


Maybe he can get a bulk buy option on this :).
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby Kreistor » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:23 pm

Outright Speculation:

Don King is going to ask Jillian to join Transylvito Side. We know such things can hapen: join without capture in this case. This may bring the ability to Pop Gwiffons to Transylvito. Right now, they don't appear to have more than bats and vamps. Vamps riding gwiffons can scoot around a lot of terrain to swarms of bats in different places, fighting on a borad front with the same warlords. Serious ability in that. And with the recent evidence of GK's willingness to use casters in front line battle, they may be looking at scooting casters from battle to battle, too.

This may be an invitation to a Royal Wedding, with Jillian wearing white.
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby Sieggy » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:44 pm

Mmm . . . I don't think that GK was as willing to use casters in front line battles as it was a matter being up against the wall and not having too much choice (or anything to lose). And I suspect that Don King will offer to set Jillian back up as ruler of FAQ, as long as they have a strong alliance . . . like perhaps a marriage . . . Given the geographic inaccessibility of FAQ, it may be to his advantage to have someone else actually run the place as an ally. Having a Royal on hand would certainly simplify things on that end.

And (with apologies to Billy Idol), "It's a great turn for a white wedding . . ."

My big question is whether or not Stanley has enough sense to conceal the fact that he not only survived, but that GK is back up & running, bigger & badder than ever. If he uses Jack to veil GK and present an illusion of devastation, it gives him a few turns of breathing room to work out what he's going to do and pop some more units, especially another lookamancer. And more Dwagons; after all, he can certainly afford 'em at the moment.

Right now, everyone will assume that with GK destroyed, Stanley is now a Barbarian (albeit one with an Arkentool), and while he may be a local problem, he's not a player on the Big Board any more. This gives Stanley some interesting latitude, which (of course) Parson will have to talk him into. Stanley's ego would probably have him trumpeting his survival and threats of retribution to one and all.

Also, given that the forces he intends to use are bearing Wanda's Skull livery, if they're clever and use misdirection, they can have the rest of Erfworld going nuts trying to figure out who / what that new side is and where the hell they're from. If I were Wanda, I'd put Ansom in a Nazgul-type helmet to conceal his identity, going for maximum terror, unveiling Ansom (and revealing his new status) only when the time was right. Like when Jillian re-appears . . .

But if Parson can convince Stanley to build up his forces for a few turns undetected, they will be in a MUCH better position . . .

Stanley's decision to make Ansom Chief Warlord makes sense, but only as long as he makes Parson his Strategos (which Parson will have to explain). Having Parson direct theater operations while Ansom runs field operations would be a devastatingly effective combo . . . Add in Wanda, and you have a world flattener.


Kreistor wrote:Outright Speculation:

Don King is going to ask Jillian to join Transylvito Side. We know such things can hapen: join without capture in this case. This may bring the ability to Pop Gwiffons to Transylvito. Right now, they don't appear to have more than bats and vamps. Vamps riding gwiffons can scoot around a lot of terrain to swarms of bats in different places, fighting on a broad front with the same warlords. Serious ability in that. And with the recent evidence of GK's willingness to use casters in front line battle, they may be looking at scooting casters from battle to battle, too.

This may be an invitation to a Royal Wedding, with Jillian wearing white.
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby HandofShadows » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:19 pm

Kreistor wrote:This may be an invitation to a Royal Wedding, with Jillian wearing white.


White for Jillian? :shock: (Blood) Red maybe. Even if it started out white, it would be red with the blood of her enimies before long. Jillian HATES being controled. And that's what it looks like Transylvito is trying to do. That might tick Jillian off to the point where (so long as Stanely isn't around) she could join up with GK. sm
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby LordDarksea » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:29 pm

raphfrk wrote:
HandofShadows wrote:Jack's skills are probably completely used up in maintaining the table. I wonder if the table would be usable for long range foolamancy.


Unfortunately not, can't remember the exact page in book 1, but Sizemore states that the Foolamancer would have to be 'in the hex'.

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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby raphfrk » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:32 pm

LordDarksea wrote:Unfortunately not, can't remember the exact page in book 1, but Sizemore states that the Foolamancer would have to be 'in the hex'.


Well, it could be an enhancement due to the link-up. The lookamancer is inherently a long range type caster, so maybe that would allow the range of foolamancy to be extended.

Ofc, if that was true, then they would likely have used it (or at least told Parson it was possible) during the donut of doom battle.
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby Arkenputtyknife » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:34 pm

Is it really necessary to re-make the Eyemancer table, though? Given Parson's knowledge of wargames and Earth practices, might they be able to use the existing table just as a table, and use a bunch of serfs to move tokens around on it under the direction of a Lookamancer (assuming GK can get a new one)? It wouldn't be as good as the 'Table, but it would only tie up one 'mancer instead of three, and wouldn't have the destructive consequences.

Can't help wondering whether there's some reason it wouldn't work, or it's just that no one on Erf has ever thought of it.
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby raphfrk » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:14 pm

Arkenputtyknife wrote:Can't help wondering whether there's some reason it wouldn't work, or it's just that no one on Erf has ever thought of it.[/color]


I think the main issue is speed. When linked, anything the Lookamancer sees is passed via the link to the Foolamancer, who can then display it.

This is much slower than having the lookamancer describe what she sees.

Take the donut battle, would Misty have been able to describe the state of all the dwagons, archons and Jillian's forces before the battle had completed.

Ofc, Parson somehow managed to enter it all into the bracer quite quickly.

For grand strategy, it probably isn't to bad, she just needs to give numbers and unit types, but tactical commands are not really viable.

Maybe they could come up with a system that allows the lookamancer to describe things quickly.
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Re: Summer Updates - 010

Postby Goshen » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:30 pm

Fiendishrabbit wrote:Hmm. Vinny seems to be more and more of an exception among vampires.
The rest seem like major assholes with no class (come on, flashing steel in such a situation is thuggish to the extreme, and you'd expect better from the Transylvito top enforcer/warlord).

Cesar certainly is a Jerk, and an interesting character, but we really haven't see any of the other vampires do much. They probably come in all types, with a definitely Mafia/Grease bent.

Vinny looks seriously sexy in in this update's artwork; that plus his personality makes him smokin' hot. If he an Jillian fall in love, it might be a subplot parallel to Grease.
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