Book 2 – Page 58

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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby John Campbell » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:25 pm

GK can't really chase, because of the turn-based nature of movement on Erf. They don't get to follow Slately out of the hex, so they can't trail after him and see where he goes after he leaves whatever spotting radius they have. He gets to move, and only when he's used up all his movement and ended turn do they get to go after him. It'd be more like hide-and-seek than tag. Slately doesn't have to be faster than the dwagons to get away; he just needs to be fast enough to make the radius within which he has to end turn large enough that GK doesn't have the scouting assets on hand to check all of the hexes he could possibly be in, and hope that they don't guess the right one.

If Slately can get out of the hex, dusting dwagons and Archons, to reduce GK's scouting capabilities and improve the odds of Slately actually getting away, should be Jetstone's next priority. Well, second to croaking Wanda, anyway. (Not that I think they have any chance of succeeding at that one.)

(Actually, they should be dusting Archons now - it's use 'em or lose 'em with the tower defenses - but I don't think they're willing to shoot through Ossomer. Though maybe if they can get Slately out from underfoot, Tramennis will have the moral courage to do it.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby Atomic » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:52 pm

No one in particular wrote:I fail to see how it's important whether the turn was ended or swapped. The caster responsible for it left with Jillian. Jetstone has a limited amount of Move. They can only get so far before they have to end Turn, and then... it'll either be GK's turn, or it's night and everyone heals, quickly followed by GK's turn. Whichever it is, GK is going to get to act before Jetstone can act again.

Unless something really pressing pops up, Parson is going to spend a turn or two making sure Jetstone is wiped out. You don't stop when you've got your enemy on the ropes and let him rally for a comeback. As long as Jetstone continues, their cities will pop more units and prolong the fighting. If Slately is taken out before Tramennis is named heir, all those cities become neutral, and production ceases. If Jetstone's neighbors want to claim them, they'll have to fight for them, which will take attention and resources. GK was going to do it anyway, so no change for them, but for the neighbors that's Turns and Shmuckers that won't be recouped before GK shows up.

Not being a genius, or knowing the resources available to Jetstone, I'm going to guess that Tramennis plans to have Slately run for it in one stack, while a bunch of other stacks go running in other directions, and hope like hell that luckamancy is with them and GK goes chasing after the wrong stack. Or maybe a unipegataur has higher move than any of the dwagons that Wanda brought with her. I dunno.
I agree with your first paragraph one hundred percent. At this point in time, the current turn order or natural turn order means nothing. Gobwin Knob is gonna get to act before Jetstone...the only thing is, Charlie might get to act before Gobwin Knob and Jetstone. ('cause, frankly, the thought of Kingworld permanently changing the turn order is just...blech). The idea of having the order swapped for a single turn is much more palatable than having a turn just completely skipped for one day. Muuuuuch more.

On the flip side, I'm not sure I agree with you about wiping Jetstone out. If Tramennis suspects Gobwin Knob can totally destroy them even if the armies of Jetstone win the battle? I hate to think what shape they'll be in if Tramennis loses/is forced to retreat. But, of course, Gobwin Knob isn't (or, at least, wasn't) going for utter-annihilation. They wanted an alliance prior to the battle...a battle which, by all accounts, they knew they were gonna win. If it hadn't been for Kingworld, they still had a very strong chance...even with fighting Jillian. After the battle? Jetstone is gonna be reeling. That's the absolutely best time to offer your opponent an alliance; when you're at your strongest and they're at their weakest... comparatively speaking, of course.

So while I think it's very important for Gobwin Knob to capture Jetstone's remaining cities (if they refuse an alliance), after this battle the real threat (or, at least, the biggest threat) is going to be Jillian. She has a powerful air force, she has a Caster with the ability to end a turn and, possibly biggest of all, she has Ansom. While Ansom might not seem like the biggest chip in the pot, I'm starting to think he might be the best bit of leverage that Faq has going for it. They've likely captured the highest level Warlord we've seen...which is a big bonus that Gobwin Knob's troops aren't going to be getting...coupled with the fact Faq has the theoretical ability to turn him.

That'd give the RCCII massive amounts of intel/fill them in on any of Gobwin Knob's secrets (aka, Parson)/give Faq a huge leadership bonus. That's exactly why Parson gave those orders to Maggie about Faq... Parson doesn't know about Jillian's "backers", but that doesn't detract from any of the power Faq seems to be dangling in front of their faces. Also? They're the closest enemy to Gobwin Knob... So yeah. The nearest enemy also appears to be the most powerful enemy? That's target numero uno in my book.

As far as escaping... that is a tough question. I'd like to think that Jetstone has a flier relay set up to ferry Slately back to Jetstone's first capital-site...but that doesn't seem likely, considering they're having the casters flee with him. The only other idea I can think of is a Foolamancy scroll to hide them. A stack of five units (four casters and the King) seems like it'd be veeeeeery easy to veil, but considering Jetstone is facing off against a side with a few dozen Archons and a Master Class Foolamancer? I dunno, either. lol.

John Campbell wrote:GK can't really chase, because of the turn-based nature of movement on Erf. They don't get to follow Slately out of the hex, so they can't trail after him and see where he goes after he leaves whatever spotting radius they have. He gets to move, and only when he's used up all his movement and ended turn do they get to go after him. It'd be more like hide-and-seek than tag. Slately doesn't have to be faster than the dwagons to get away; he just needs to be fast enough to make the radius within which he has to end turn large enough that GK doesn't have the scouting assets on hand to check all of the hexes he could possibly be in, and hope that they don't guess the right one.

If Slately can get out of the hex, dusting dwagons and Archons, to reduce GK's scouting capabilities and improve the odds of Slately actually getting away, should be Jetstone's next priority. Well, second to croaking Wanda, anyway. (Not that I think they have any chance of succeeding at that one.)

(Actually, they should be dusting Archons now - it's use 'em or lose 'em with the tower defenses - but I don't think they're willing to shoot through Ossomer. Though maybe if they can get Slately out from underfoot, Tramennis will have the moral courage to do it.)
Although they can't "chase", I think Gobwin Knob's units are just as likely to find Slately as Jillian was to find that hex full of wounded Dwagons. More so, even, considering Gobwin Knob's far superior numbers and the fact that Slately is actually limited in what direction he can head. He has one of two directions...towards his cities, or away from his cities. If he chooses to advance towards his nearest city (or in the same direction as whatever capital-site), it makes things easier on Gobwin Knob... 'cause, if Slately flees, that's probably the direction they're heading in, anyway. If Slately decides to go for a 'bluff' and heads behind enemy lines with his handful of casters? Well, Gobwin Knob is just gonna head towards the nearest Jetstone-cities anyway, 'cause that's where they think Slately is going. If they don't find him, they'll just starve him out by wiping out all the other cities.

I agree with you about dusting Archons/Dwagons, though...cutting down Gobwin Knob's ability to scout would be a major bonus to helping protect Slately. The only thing is, can the Tower Defenses really wipe out all the Archons? These aren't automatic tower defenses, so they're not gonna risk hitting Ossomer if they don't want to; the Casters present in the tower are able to chose where those bolts of lightning go. If Jetstone had the ability to croak all (or some, or most, or half, or two) of those Archons, I think they would've already. It's either that, or they're waiting for some reason I can't comprehend.

All this planning is for naught, though. The more I think about it, the more I realize Jetstone's only hope is to ally with Gobwin Knob. Anything else, and they're just gonna die in a few (or few dozen) turns.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby Sieggy » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:56 pm

dunno - if GK has their move today after JS finishes theirs (and I'm really not sure of the mechanics involved in defining turn end), GK has their turn to pursue as well as the first move tomorrow. And it's kind of a given that if Slately makes a successful escape, he'll beat feet to whatever the closest refuge JS has to offer. Which means that if Parson interrogates any of the JS decrypted officer corps, he has effectively two turns to track down & croak Slately. Bad news.

Unless . . . Parson reaches a modus vivendi with Trem, who loves his father and is willing to do whatever it takes to preserve his life and keep the JS side alive. Mucho plotomancy possibilities . . .
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby the_tick_rules » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:15 pm

Ending turn happens when someone announces their turn has ended. The lowest rank person I believe we've seen end a turn is a chief warlord. so odds are only he/she and the ruler can do it. Well to be exact the one time I can recall a turn ending being directly shown ending ansom ordered a captain to end a turn then a dude blew on a trumpet.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby teratorn » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:46 am

Atomic wrote: While Ansom might not seem like the biggest chip in the pot, I'm starting to think he might be the best bit of leverage that Faq has going for it. They've likely captured the highest level Warlord we've seen...


I think Caesar is higher level, and I wouldn't be surprised if TV had a few warlords on par with Ansom.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby ryanroyce » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:21 am

timh wrote:Reading some of the older pages, it got me wondering.

Even if Slately/tramennis manages to leave the city, next up will be GK's turn? With so much dwagons plus the dwagon relay system it cannot be hard to track Slately down as the dwagons have a lot of move (56 if I remember correctly) So how exactly does Trammenis think they can win this? hope Slately makes it somewhere were they can't find him? (Maybe hire a findamancer?)


Remember that Tramennis has already copied the dwagon relay scheme, so getting Slatley to Jetstone City via unipegataur relay isn't a problem.

justamessenger wrote:And perhaps the added move of a jetpack on top of that?


Actually, I'd put money on the idea that Parson gets the jetpack (he'd know what it was just by looking at it). He'll probably need it to get out of the falling tower safely. ;-)

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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby Atomic » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:34 am

ryanroyce wrote:Remember that Tramennis has already copied the dwagon relay scheme, so getting Slatley to Jetstone City via unipegataur relay isn't a problem.
And all the casters traveling with him? I honestly can't imagine there being three or more unipegataurs stacked all the way back to whatever city they're planning to retreat to...and, even then, the closest city (even if it's their former capital) might not be the safest bet; if it's closest for them, it's closest for Gobwin Knob, too.

It does interest me what they're planning to do with those four casters after Slately is out of the city. Are they just gonna head back in, or did I misread/misinterpret a page?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby the_tick_rules » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:43 pm

He said have the casters be there with Slately in a maximum stack. He never explicitly said they are leaving with him, so maybe they are not aren't, not entirely sure. I'm thinking they probably are, if he's indeed evacuating the city to fight on leaving casters behind is a pretty bad idea. Especially since GK would go all-out to get them and decrypt them.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby Jinren » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:52 pm

Atomic wrote:
ryanroyce wrote:Remember that Tramennis has already copied the dwagon relay scheme, so getting Slatley to Jetstone City via unipegataur relay isn't a problem.
And all the casters traveling with him? I honestly can't imagine there being three or more unipegataurs stacked all the way back to whatever city they're planning to retreat to...and, even then, the closest city (even if it's their former capital) might not be the safest bet; if it's closest for them, it's closest for Gobwin Knob, too.

It does interest me what they're planning to do with those four casters after Slately is out of the city. Are they just gonna head back in, or did I misread/misinterpret a page?


Surely getting the Ruler out of mortal danger outweighs all other priorities, including the safety of the casters? Regardless of the long-term strategic effect, if they only have one unipegataur then they only evacuate one person and the side doesn't fall.

That is assuming they've decided the King needs to be evacuated in that way. But if they have... all other concerns are secondary.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby Dr Pepper » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:31 pm

Ok, new theory about Tram's knights. I say they represent sports teams. The one in the hockey mask isn't the monster jason, he's just a hockey team, but i don't know enough about hockey to say which one. I don't know much about football either, but the one in the forground with the brush plumed helmet has got to be the USC Trojans. And the one with the horned helmet would be the Buffalo Bills.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby DoctorJest » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:42 pm

Dr Pepper wrote:Ok, new theory about Tram's knights. I say they represent sports teams. The one in the hockey mask isn't the monster jason, he's just a hockey team, but i don't know enough about hockey to say which one. I don't know much about football either, but the one in the forground with the brush plumed helmet has got to be the USC Trojans. And the one with the horned helmet would be the Buffalo Bills.


You can always tell when we're about due for a new update just by reading the forums.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby Smoker » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:30 am

DoctorJest wrote:You can always tell when we're about due for a new update just by reading the forums.


:lol: :lol: I couldn't agree more :lol:
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby No one in particular » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:37 am

Ah! I've got it figured out now!

Parson isn't a florist, or a signamancer... he's an UPDATE-a-mancer! :D Eh? Eh? Eh?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby paint » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:24 pm

what if Parson steps threw the portal and it turns out he isn't actually a heavy unit...?

does he make a dash over ground straight for the other portal.....
or does he have to promote himself to a heavy.
and if Parson has to promote himself to a heavy does he get the same BUFF (literally) as the Hobgobwins literally took a "BUFF" when they were promoted to heavies..

"Fud's fall had been not so bad..... He kicked it with his newly powerful legs.....He hit it with his newly powerful fists. Just at the end of the fall, Fud tried flapping his newly powerful arms. How that worked was this: not at all"

so evidence here is upon a heavy promotion the unit immediately gains muscle mass.


possible reasons why. :
Can Garrison units fly on Dwagons?
is it possible that either a heavy or a garrison is not able to fly on a dwagon? and both would float down.

This would round out the whole perfect warlord spell. Stanley wanted a looker for a warlord ..
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:55 am

No one in particular wrote:Ah! I've got it figured out now!

Parson isn't a florist, or a signamancer... he's an UPDATE-a-mancer! :D Eh? Eh? Eh?


YEEEEEAAAAAAH!

We should start an Erfworld Pun-club.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby Infidel » Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:39 am

Atomic wrote:Sigh. Sure, the alphabet can be used as a code,but that's really not the point.


No, the Alphabet IS code. you had to learn to read it. Just knowing English and seeing the letters did not make them transparent. You had to learn how each symbol represented a sound, and different sounds depending on the order they are written. That is the essence of code. And that is TOTALLY the point.
There has been no indication that the MtTA are a hive mind encompassing all thinkamancers. And only being in a hive mind would account for two parties having the intrinsic understanding of each other you speak of. Maggie and Isaac are basically two democrats or two republicans. Completely capable of misunderstanding and disagreeing with one another, but basically sharing some fundamental principals.

Also, there is nothing to indicate Isaac and Maggie are MtTA. The only thing implied about the MtTA is that somewhere there are three thinkamancers in a trimancer link. That is the MtTA.

Isaac wished Charlie was MtTA. That doesn't imply that Isaac and all the other thinkamancers are MtTA. It just implies that MtTA are on Isaac's side.

So there is nothing to support the assumption that Maggie and Isaac can grunt, or use any sort of code and automatically understand one another without a chance of mis-communication.

Oh, no, I'm using the concept of "bad writing" quite well. There aren't two options; there's good writing or there's bad writing. No middle-ground in war, no middle-ground in writing. :lol:. Sure, the outcomes might be good or bad for the story, but how in the world will Rob explain the Thinkamancers, called by Maggie, opposing Parson? "Whoops, Maggie was totally wrong about this entire group of people.


Maggie wrote in code and they are not used to writing in code. It has already been explained. People are wrong all the time. Just ask any mother of a criminal. "Not my baby!". blah blah. People make mistakes. Having characters make mistakes is not bad writing.

I'm not saying Rob can't write it well -- I have the utmost faith in Rob writing us an amazing story... but given our present information, it just strikes me as stupid to add in a few pages of conflict with the Thinkamancers for some faux-excitement
. I have a hard time not expecting some kind of confrontation given our present information.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby Beeskee » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:46 am

And even if there is no misunderstanding, you still have a booping GIANT WARLORD, heavily armed, suddenly storming through one of the gates. That's something you don't ever see in the MK. As far as we know, Parson's last appearance was the only time in the history of the MK that happened. Someone might have second thoughts after seeing something like that again.

That said, I have NO idea if the author is messing with us or not by keeping things ambiguous. (Comments from another comic lead me to believe that Rob does indeed like messing with his audience.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby drachefly » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:21 pm

Infidel wrote:Also, there is nothing to indicate Isaac and Maggie are MtTA. The only thing implied about the MtTA is that somewhere there are three thinkamancers in a trimancer link. That is the MtTA.


This does not sound familiar to me. Citation, please?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby Beeskee » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:03 pm

DoctorJest wrote:You can always tell when we're about due for a new update just by reading the forums.


Don't tell anyone this, but Rob actually uses the forums as an indicator for when the next strip should come out. As the inanity reaches it's maximum threshold, the likelihood of a new comic increases.

Of course, you know I'm completely full of it, that I'm making this up for my own nefarious purposes, but you're going to test it anyway aren't you? :) http://partiallyclips.com/2009/04/21/goblin-and-baby/
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Re: Book 2 – Page 58

Postby DoctorJest » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:03 pm

drachefly wrote:
Infidel wrote:Also, there is nothing to indicate Isaac and Maggie are MtTA. The only thing implied about the MtTA is that somewhere there are three thinkamancers in a trimancer link. That is the MtTA.


This does not sound familiar to me. Citation, please?


The only place it ever shows up is:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2445&start=200#p52961
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