Summer Updates - 011

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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby Sandis » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:15 pm

Here's a thought: Since Transylvito accepts "protection money" from its neighbors, maybe Don King's going to try to convince Jill to become Queen of the newly-reconstituted Faq, and in exchange for a hefty "protection" payment, Transylvito will ensure that Faq doesn't wiped out by any side looking to make a name for itself.
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby DunkelMentat » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:03 pm

This update adds a lot of depth to our understandings of what Erfworld is like. Turf wars, ransoms, using cost-benefit-analysis to decide whether to declare war, et cetera; and these guys were part of the RCC, the self proclaimed good guys. Seeing as how TV was part of the RCC and that the warlord they sent was a close confidant to the RCC's chief warlord, it follows that TV's political and military actions described in this update are not considered beyond the pale by its other members. I hope we can agree that blackmailing a city with utter destruction for profit is unethical. That leads me to agree with Stanley - there are no good and evil sides. Unless, I suppose, if you want to count hippymancers as good and everyone else as bad.

I agree with an earlier poster about Benjamin, sounds like a moneymancer to me. I'm thinking that one of a moneymancer's most important skills is determining how much things like invading a city will cost. Sound right?
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby Justyn » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:22 pm

raphfrk wrote:
Benjamin tells me it's too expensive


I wonder if "Benjamin" is a moneymancer. He certainly sounds like Don King's accountant.


That, or a mathamancer.

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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby Cmdr I. Heartly Noah » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:38 pm

Yes, Benjamin is most likely a Mathamancer or Moneymancer, and serves as either an accountant and/or consigliere to Don King.

Jillian could not take all four warlords, even with all her gwiffons and some orlies. Caesar is probably roughly her equal in combat, and they still have some bats left. Considering they're all in one stack and have so many leadership bonuses, her best bet would be running.

Also, the question isn't why Transylvito would want Jillian (she's a level 9 warlord who probably operates reasonably cheaply, and needs work to live. With the RCC gone, she has to get paid by someone), but why Don King would want her brought to him before, or instead of, grabbing Faq.
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:45 pm

Something that wasn't discussed properly:

Erfworld wrote:Some had cities to manage


It seems that warlords have more uses than just leading troops and giving bonuses to them. Apparently they act as local representatives of the ruler and administrate cities.
Maybe that's how new sides can split: units of a city develop loyalty to their local ruler, that eventually exceeds the one to the ruler.
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby Ragn Charran » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:07 pm

Cmdr I. Heartly Noah wrote:Yes, Benjamin is most likely a Mathamancer or Moneymancer, and serves as either an accountant and/or consigliere to Don King.

Jillian could not take all four warlords, even with all her gwiffons and some orlies. Caesar is probably roughly her equal in combat, and they still have some bats left. Considering they're all in one stack and have so many leadership bonuses, her best bet would be running.

Also, the question isn't why Transylvito would want Jillian (she's a level 9 warlord who probably operates reasonably cheaply, and needs work to live. With the RCC gone, she has to get paid by someone), but why Don King would want her brought to him before, or instead of, grabbing Faq.


Faq isn't going anywhere. But whatever caused the massive dirtamancy trap might. That's my guess, anyways.
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby DevilDan » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:30 pm

cloudbreaker wrote:So 40,000 shmuckers is enough to ransom a city with? Interesting...


If you run a protection racket or similar scheme, you don't ask for cripplingly high sums.

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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby Angband » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:44 pm

"Ehhhh, that's a nice city you've got there, that Carport. It'd be a terrible shame if something were to, y'know, happen to it."
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby Cmdr I. Heartly Noah » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:09 pm

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:Something that wasn't discussed properly:

Erfworld wrote:Some had cities to manage


It seems that warlords have more uses than just leading troops and giving bonuses to them. Apparently they act as local representatives of the ruler and administrate cities.
Maybe that's how new sides can split: units of a city develop loyalty to their local ruler, that eventually exceeds the one to the ruler.


Yes, that is probably the most intriguing tidbit in this update, but sadly the least telling. Just what do they manage? Do they handle unit production, or does the Ruler handle that from afar? What else is there? Do they allocate percentage of "Work Points" or somesuch among various tasks, such as 30% forestry, 30% farming, 15% defense bonus, 25% production? Do they just add a small bonus to everything the city does? Like their level in a % bonus to production, economy, etc?

It can be so much or so little. It could also be nothing, in game terms anyway, and just be something done out of habit, but for them to "manage" a city, there must be some variable they could theoretically affect, right? Instead of "look after" or "garrison."
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby Ragn Charran » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:21 pm

In some editions of Romance of the Three Kingdoms (last I played was IV, so apologies if I am way out of date), orders are issued by the overlord (player). However:

1. Each city must have at least one general (Warlord) or else it goes neutral.
2. Certain activites require and/or are made cheaper and faster with generals overseeing them. Development of the city requires assigning one or more generals to the task. The smarter the general, the cheaper and faster the upgrades. Recruiting (popping) and training troops is a similar mechanic - the better the general, the better morale and skill the soldiers have. While we know these tasks can be done in Erfworld simply by spending schmuckers, maybe having warlords assist/manage the activities is a lower-cost option?
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby Cmdr I. Heartly Noah » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:09 pm

I played that game! On Sega Saturn.

It was interminably long, and with no save function, we only ever finished one game. I think it took a weekend.
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby DunkelMentat » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:18 pm

I'm not so sure Don King is having Jillian brought before him with such a detailed plan for her as has been variously speculated. Obviously he isn't going to have anything to fear from her in his own courtroom for a number of reasons, including that she'll need to break stack to leave their side and they are going to have huge combat bonuses there. I think a big reason he's sent for her is to learn things from her. This is a powerful warlord that no one knows. Everyone thought was a barbarian but it turns out she's a royal. No one has ever heard of her kingdom before even though she says it's been right under their noses. I'm sure there are plenty of things Don King wants to find out about. Yes, he certainly could have a plan for her, but I think he wants to have her come to him primarily for information.

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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby Gez » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:39 pm

Anton Gaist wrote:I'm wondering what Jillian's three words were. Three words, one syllable each. And I don't see Caesar asking her questions, so maybe some advice she gave him? "Boop" is a one syllable word after all.

Any guesses?
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Lime.

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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby cloudbreaker » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:53 am

Cmdr I. Heartly Noah wrote:Just what do they manage? Do they handle unit production, or does the Ruler handle that from afar?

Well we know the warlords don't do this because here it states that overlords set the production for all their cities. One option down, a hundred more to go.
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby Pax » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:39 am

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:Something that wasn't discussed properly:
Erfworld wrote:Some had cities to manage

It seems that warlords have more uses than just leading troops and giving bonuses to them. Apparently they act as local representatives of the ruler and administrate cities. Maybe that's how new sides can split: units of a city develop loyalty to their local ruler, that eventually exceeds the one to the ruler.

I noticed that myself. One wonders if perhap's the Warlord's Leadership bonus can be used to affect the Income and/or Production rate of a city, if said Warlord is assigned to Garrison duty at that city ...?
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby moose o death » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:12 am

the simplest explanation is the defensive bonus if they are attacked.

there could be side bonus's. but, gobwin knob just triggered a dirtamancy trap across multiple hexes and wasted an entire army of alliance troops. so getting the warlords back to the cities they "manage" is probably high on the agenda. much higher than preventing stanley from finding FAQ. they wasted an entire army without an overlord bonus afterall. i'd say the plaid tribe has shaken up pretty much every side within thinkamancy range. they'd all be recalling troops to the host cities.
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby Pax » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:12 am

No, it's got to be more than just the defensive bonus. Those cities aren't under immediate threat right now, after all.
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby John Campbell » Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:50 am

Dewy Tulips and Leather Valese??
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby Ragn Charran » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:53 pm

cloudbreaker wrote:
Cmdr I. Heartly Noah wrote:Just what do they manage? Do they handle unit production, or does the Ruler handle that from afar?

Well we know the warlords don't do this because here it states that overlords set the production for all their cities. One option down, a hundred more to go.


Maybe we (me included) are just overthinking this.

We know that though production orders are set by the overlord, "normal" orders require communication, either by thinkamancer or by courier (the "pass this across the hex wall" note chain). Having an identified representative - someone clearly set as a leader, like a warlord - be the person to receive the communication and be responsible for having those basic orders fulfilled, like "Send 1,000 troops to raid Carport" or "have Vinnie Doombats take some bats to join the RCC" or even something as mundane as "we need schmuckers so increase mining production", would be necessary to manage basic city activities. Otherwise Bunny would have to send thinkagrams to tens/hundreds/thousands of individuals to convey the Don's orders. They would also be authorized to act independently (as independently as Duty will allow) so they wouldn't need to wait for orders in the event of something unexpected (good or bad).

If this is all that is meant by manage, it makes sense that the warlords could temporarily be away to aid in the ambush. While they are away some sort of lieutenant could take and manage the orders, but given their lack of experience the warlords need to get back ASAP before someone screws something up.
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Re: Summer Updates - 011

Postby cloudbreaker » Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:31 pm

moose o death wrote:the simplest explanation is the defensive bonus if they are attacked.

there could be side bonus's. but, gobwin knob just triggered a dirtamancy trap across multiple hexes and wasted an entire army of alliance troops. so getting the warlords back to the cities they "manage" is probably high on the agenda. much higher than preventing stanley from finding FAQ. they wasted an entire army without an overlord bonus afterall. i'd say the plaid tribe has shaken up pretty much every side within thinkamancy range. they'd all be recalling troops to the host cities.

This got me thinking. Transilvito knows that everyone in the coalition army died in the dirtamancy trap, but do they know the Gobwin Knob troops died as well? I'm guessing probably not. And they would know Gobwin Knob has a croakamancer so it isn't beyond reason that they would be nervous about a counterattack since they just got done attacking Gobwin Knob's overlord directly.

Ragn Charran wrote:Maybe we (me included) are just overthinking this.

We know that though production orders are set by the overlord, "normal" orders require communication, either by thinkamancer or by courier (the "pass this across the hex wall" note chain). Having an identified representative - someone clearly set as a leader, like a warlord - be the person to receive the communication and be responsible for having those basic orders fulfilled, like "Send 1,000 troops to raid Carport" or "have Vinnie Doombats take some bats to join the RCC" or even something as mundane as "we need schmuckers so increase mining production", would be necessary to manage basic city activities. Otherwise Bunny would have to send thinkagrams to tens/hundreds/thousands of individuals to convey the Don's orders. They would also be authorized to act independently (as independently as Duty will allow) so they wouldn't need to wait for orders in the event of something unexpected (good or bad).

If this is all that is meant by manage, it makes sense that the warlords could temporarily be away to aid in the ambush. While they are away some sort of lieutenant could take and manage the orders, but given their lack of experience the warlords need to get back ASAP before someone screws something up.

This seems likely to be at least close to what was meant by 'manage' in my opinion.
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