Book 2 – Page 60

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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby Decorus » Tue May 10, 2011 11:10 am

Charlie making an attack on Parson that could easily be traced back to him goes against what Charlie wants so its highly unlikely.
The caster is much more likely to be a thinkamancer who is providing support to keep Parson from being injured in accordance to thier needs.
Charlie does not want to hurt Parson he wants to turn him to his side.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby the_tick_rules » Tue May 10, 2011 12:05 pm

I'm going with the thinkamancers to.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby Sieggy » Tue May 10, 2011 1:12 pm

Unless Charlie has a fantastic organization and resources in place, I don't think he's really had time to set up anything devious or complex. In terms of actual elapsed time (though this is Erworld, where things are different), it's probably been less than a half hour since Parson promoted himself to a field unit (after all, Stanley is still on lunch break). Until THAT happened, there was no way for Parson to physically leave GK, and I can't see Charley having the capability of knowing what personnel changes GK has. So setting a trap for him seems a bit problematic.

Once again, unless you have assets there ready to go, setting up any kind of trap / ambush is iffy at best. Even if Charlie is listening in on the communications between Parson & his field units, Charlie may have known about the lunchmeat gambit, but Parson's trip through the MK and his method for doing this safely should be as much as surprise to Charlie as anyone else.

Though . . .during the runup to entering the portal, Parson spent an awful lot of time with his Eyebook, doing Titans knows what . . . I doubt Parson would be putting down his notes on a media he knows Charlie has hacked, but I still have to wonder . . .?

If the Magical Mystery Guest is, indeed, Jeftichew, he shouldn't be working for Charlie per his promise to Queen Bea. Vanna was working for Jillian, (with her tab being paid by Charlie, though not no mo'), and NOT for Charlie himself. The MMG seems to have been in the park with the scroll at just the same time as Sizemore showed, which would imply he's involved in some way with tGMTTA more than Charlie, unless Charlie has hacked the super-duper-secret comm network that Isaac set up. Also, whoever it is will be trying to cast his scroll with a contingent of the GMTTA thinkamancers there looking at him, which has it's own plot possibilities. There's a surprise coming, but I doubt very seriously it's anything we've speculated about, as Rob is generally several jumps ahead of us, and that's half the fun!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby ryanroyce » Tue May 10, 2011 3:44 pm

Sieggy wrote:Unless Charlie has a fantastic organization and resources in place, I don't think he's really had time to set up anything devious or complex. In terms of actual elapsed time (though this is Erworld, where things are different), it's probably been less than a half hour since Parson promoted himself to a field unit (after all, Stanley is still on lunch break). Until THAT happened, there was no way for Parson to physically leave GK, and I can't see Charley having the capability of knowing what personnel changes GK has. So setting a trap for him seems a bit problematic.

Once again, unless you have assets there ready to go, setting up any kind of trap / ambush is iffy at best. Even if Charlie is listening in on the communications between Parson & his field units, Charlie may have known about the lunchmeat gambit, but Parson's trip through the MK and his method for doing this safely should be as much as surprise to Charlie as anyone else.

Though . . .during the runup to entering the portal, Parson spent an awful lot of time with his Eyebook, doing Titans knows what . . . I doubt Parson would be putting down his notes on a media he knows Charlie has hacked, but I still have to wonder . . .?

If the Magical Mystery Guest is, indeed, Jeftichew, he shouldn't be working for Charlie per his promise to Queen Bea. Vanna was working for Jillian, (with her tab being paid by Charlie, though not no mo'), and NOT for Charlie himself. The MMG seems to have been in the park with the scroll at just the same time as Sizemore showed, which would imply he's involved in some way with tGMTTA more than Charlie, unless Charlie has hacked the super-duper-secret comm network that Isaac set up. Also, whoever it is will be trying to cast his scroll with a contingent of the GMTTA thinkamancers there looking at him, which has it's own plot possibilities. There's a surprise coming, but I doubt very seriously it's anything we've speculated about, as Rob is generally several jumps ahead of us, and that's half the fun!


Again, Jef does NOT need to be working for Charlie in order for him to be doing what Charlie wants (whether Jef realizes it or not). All Charlie has to do is send Jef a Thinkagram saying "hey, if you want at a shot at giving GK some payback, go stand behind their portal and wait." Jef was already in the MK, living as a Barbarian since Unaroyal's fall, so it would take only moments for this 'plan' to be put in place. Moments enough for the GMTTA to get Maggie's g-mail, have a secret meeting, and then move en masse to Portal Park, I remind you. The only logistical hurdle for Jef would be the Scroll (did Jef already own it, did he get it from Charlie, or did Charlie just pay for it?), but until we know more about it, I can't really say.

Regardless of whether Charlie is involved or not, I am 99% certain Jeftichew is there to Ruin Parson's Day.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby Housellama » Tue May 10, 2011 4:15 pm

Sieggy wrote:Unless Charlie has a fantastic organization and resources in place, I don't think he's really had time to set up anything devious or complex. In terms of actual elapsed time (though this is Erworld, where things are different), it's probably been less than a half hour since Parson promoted himself to a field unit (after all, Stanley is still on lunch break). Until THAT happened, there was no way for Parson to physically leave GK, and I can't see Charley having the capability of knowing what personnel changes GK has. So setting a trap for him seems a bit problematic.

Once again, unless you have assets there ready to go, setting up any kind of trap / ambush is iffy at best. Even if Charlie is listening in on the communications between Parson & his field units, Charlie may have known about the lunchmeat gambit, but Parson's trip through the MK and his method for doing this safely should be as much as surprise to Charlie as anyone else.

Though . . .during the runup to entering the portal, Parson spent an awful lot of time with his Eyebook, doing Titans knows what . . . I doubt Parson would be putting down his notes on a media he knows Charlie has hacked, but I still have to wonder . . .?

If the Magical Mystery Guest is, indeed, Jeftichew, he shouldn't be working for Charlie per his promise to Queen Bea. Vanna was working for Jillian, (with her tab being paid by Charlie, though not no mo'), and NOT for Charlie himself. The MMG seems to have been in the park with the scroll at just the same time as Sizemore showed, which would imply he's involved in some way with tGMTTA more than Charlie, unless Charlie has hacked the super-duper-secret comm network that Isaac set up. Also, whoever it is will be trying to cast his scroll with a contingent of the GMTTA thinkamancers there looking at him, which has it's own plot possibilities. There's a surprise coming, but I doubt very seriously it's anything we've speculated about, as Rob is generally several jumps ahead of us, and that's half the fun!


Here's where my assumption that Charlie knows about Parson going through the portal comes from.

We have previous evidence that Charlie can hack and listen in on Thinkagrams. That's more or less confirmed at this point. Since he communicated with Tram, we haven't seen Charlie. Based on what we've seen, it would be ludicrous to assume that Charlie ISN'T listening into every Thinkamancy going in or out of GK during this time. I'm going to present a list of comics where Parson planned and executed his orders for the MK trip. I will also present a comic to give you a sense of time. I will also present evidence to show you how efficient Charlie is.

Here Parson explains the food fight plan to Wanda. This comic also presents tacit evidence that Charlie is listening in on Parson's calls. Immediately after, he begins his talk with Tram.

1, 2 - These two comics show Parson giving Wanda the Go order for the food fight, and show an Archon broadcasing the results back through Thinkamancy.

Here we see Parson telling Maggie to relay to Wanda the order to take the Portal room.

here is the Portal room secure confirmation from Wanda.

Finally, here we see Maggie relaying Sizemore's confirmation that the tunnel is ready to Parson.

Charlie knew every detail of their plan. The only question at this point would be one of time. However, we have already seen Charlie working extremely efficiently under pressure before.

Jillian backs out, Charlie blackmails Haggar and Jillian finds Haggar

Charlie regularly hires out units from the MK. That is also an established fact. Therefore, it's not a stretch to assume that he would be able to find a Findamancer on short notice, if the 'Dish doesn't have Findamancy on its own. Finding Chewie is a non-issue. Charlie is also a very persuasive guy. Again, it's not a stretch to assume that he would be able to find common ground with Chewie to work toward a common goal. And while Bea's order is problematic, he found a way around it with Vanna. It would be very easy to find a way around it with Chewie too.

QED, it's entirely possible for Chewie to be working for Charlie. I make no claim whether he is or not. I merely state that the possibility that he could be is very plausible.
"All warfare is based on deception" - Sun Tzu, Chapter 1, Line 18, The Art of War

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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby MarbitChow » Tue May 10, 2011 4:44 pm

Chewie could very easily interpret "don't work for non-royals" to be equivalent to "work against non-royals". If a non-royal pays him well to attack another non-royal, especially one breaking the neutrality of the MK, it seems like it could easily fall into enough of a gray area to satisfy his oath.

But this means that the GMtTA will open fire on Chewie to protect Parson, and the neutrality of the MK will be immediately shattered. Mages are going to take sides. And most, I'll wager, will initially side against GK, based on their previous reactions (cutting of healing scrolls, giving Sizemore the cold shoulder, etc.)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby Angband » Tue May 10, 2011 6:06 pm

Just one thing to add -- we don't know how binding the pledge that Queen Bea made the Unaroyal casters take is . After all, the side that they made the pledge to is gone; maybe any Duty they would have had to that side is gone too. It's entirely possible that those casters could work directly for Charlie and would only feel somewhat guilty about breaking their word to their former Ruler (which might also be ameliorated if Charlie pitched it as working directly against GK).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby Feyrauth » Tue May 10, 2011 7:06 pm

Chit Rule Railroad wrote:There is no contradiction in Jeftichew's appearance being a reference to George Harrison.

Lloyd the Dittomancer's name is probably a reference to Lloyd Dobler, but his appearance is based on the Deadly Duplicator.

Sygerrik wrote:Rereading this thread, I'm astonished at how quickly the speculation turned from "Is that Jeftichew?" to "That's definitely Jeftichew." It's probably not, based on a lot of factors, but most strongly the art. MK casters that are based on and named after a real person almost always closely resemble that person.


Isaac looks like Carl Sagan, but his name is clearly a reference to Isaac Newton ("equal and opposite directions"). Does Janis really "closely resemble" Janis Joplin, Janis Ian, or Janice Rand?

How many cases are there of us knowing an MK caster's name and appearance? Besides the above, I'm aware of Marie and, most likely, Uhura (though her image is not detailed enough to be a close resemblance of anybody).


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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby Housellama » Tue May 10, 2011 7:06 pm

MarbitChow wrote:Chewie could very easily interpret "don't work for non-royals" to be equivalent to "work against non-royals". If a non-royal pays him well to attack another non-royal, especially one breaking the neutrality of the MK, it seems like it could easily fall into enough of a gray area to satisfy his oath.

But this means that the GMtTA will open fire on Chewie to protect Parson, and the neutrality of the MK will be immediately shattered. Mages are going to take sides. And most, I'll wager, will initially side against GK, based on their previous reactions (cutting of healing scrolls, giving Sizemore the cold shoulder, etc.)


True. However. Here's the problem with that. Sizemore is already in a bad spot, and here's why. He works for an unpopular side, and he's being forced to do things that are 'rule breaking'. If he defends Parson, that may be enough to make the MK decide to 'contain' him. Let me present a potential scenario for you.

Parson has been seen entering the MK. The 'mancers are none too thrilled about this. Chewie waits until someone else makes the first move (even if it's only slightly aggressive), then springs his thing. Sizemore is forced to defend his CWL. At that point, all bets are off. Chewie can use the excuse that he was 'working to contain the threat' to continue to attack both Parson and Sizemore. With both Janis the Master Hippiemancer and the GMTTA on the scene, he's going to have to work really fast to take them both before the situation is contained, but if he's got the right tools, he doesn't NEED but a moment. And Charlie is a genius as well as Parson. He's also known for always having the right tool for the job. If he hits them hard enough, fast enough and Charlie has other help on the scene, it could be over before the peacekeepers have time to move in, and Chewie can use the excuse that he was keeping the peace.

This situation doesn't necessarily end with war. Janis and the Thinkamancers wouldn't shut down just one side. They'd shut down everyone equally. There is a way for goals to be accomplished within the MK under the noses of the peacekeepers without actually breaking the peace or permanently destroying the neutrality. Would it shake it up? Sure. But open war? Not necessarily.
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"The principle of strategy is to know ten thousand things by having one thing." - Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Earth, Go Rin No Sho
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby ftl » Tue May 10, 2011 7:28 pm

Angband wrote:Just one thing to add -- we don't know how binding the pledge that Queen Bea made the Unaroyal casters take is . After all, the side that they made the pledge to is gone; maybe any Duty they would have had to that side is gone too. It's entirely possible that those casters could work directly for Charlie and would only feel somewhat guilty about breaking their word to their former Ruler (which might also be ameliorated if Charlie pitched it as working directly against GK).


My take has always been that it's essentially nonbinding. There's no longer a Queen Bea for them to have loyalty to, there's no longer a Unaroyal side for them to have Duty to. It was just that, a promise, with no rules-based strings attached.

So in my mind, there's absolutely nothing preventing Charlie for persuading them that he's working against GK and that he's not a "toolist" and is fine with restoring the status quo as it was before (with Royals at the helm of everything).

Not sure there's much text support one way or the other on this.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby the_tick_rules » Tue May 10, 2011 8:17 pm

It sounds possible. If she could have just ordered it why bother asking?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby Oberon » Tue May 10, 2011 11:00 pm

Chit Rule Railroad wrote:There is no contradiction in Jeftichew's appearance being a reference to George Harrison.

Lloyd the Dittomancer's name is probably a reference to Lloyd Dobler, but his appearance is based on the Deadly Duplicator.

Isaac looks like Carl Sagan, but his name is clearly a reference to Isaac Newton ("equal and opposite directions"). Does Janis really "closely resemble" Janis Joplin, Janis Ian, or Janice Rand?
Agreed. The author has a great love of multi-layered references, and has provided a great many examples to support that great love. Until those references are tied down there is almost no point in speculating. Not that anyone will stop, naturally. :P
Sieggy wrote:Unless Charlie has a fantastic organization and resources in place, I don't think he's really had time to set up anything devious or complex. In terms of actual elapsed time (though this is Erworld, where things are different), it's probably been less than a half hour since Parson promoted himself to a field unit (after all, Stanley is still on lunch break). Until THAT happened, there was no way for Parson to physically leave GK, and I can't see Charley having the capability of knowing what personnel changes GK has. So setting a trap for him seems a bit problematic.
Not that I'm buying into the "Charlie has hired assassins in the MK" tinfoil hattery (but I'm not against it, either, just awaiting unfolding events), I believe that you have forgotten that Parson promoting himself to a field unit was totally necessary for the purposes of carrying out his plan. I actually view it as a rather large logical failure in our otherwise logical protagonist. There was no need for him to promote himself. He was not a field unit the last time he entered the MK, so it was clearly not a requirement for his entry this time. There was no reason for Parson to assume that passing into Jetstone would be impossible for a garrison unit, since he was able to pass into GK as a garrison unit. And if there was any issue, promoting himself was an instantaneous effefct. Parson promoted himself for no reason at all, or at least none that is apparent. Charlie is probably well aware that Parson can enter the MK due to Charlie's good relations with the MK. And so if Charlie was looking to dry gulch Parson he didn't need to be aware of Parson's shameless self-promotion (pun intended) to lay such a trap.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby kagato23 » Tue May 10, 2011 11:24 pm

Oberon wrote:
Chit Rule Railroad wrote:There is no contradiction in Jeftichew's appearance being a reference to George Harrison.

Lloyd the Dittomancer's name is probably a reference to Lloyd Dobler, but his appearance is based on the Deadly Duplicator.

Isaac looks like Carl Sagan, but his name is clearly a reference to Isaac Newton ("equal and opposite directions"). Does Janis really "closely resemble" Janis Joplin, Janis Ian, or Janice Rand?
Agreed. The author has a great love of multi-layered references, and has provided a great many examples to support that great love. Until those references are tied down there is almost no point in speculating. Not that anyone will stop, naturally. :P
Sieggy wrote:Unless Charlie has a fantastic organization and resources in place, I don't think he's really had time to set up anything devious or complex. In terms of actual elapsed time (though this is Erworld, where things are different), it's probably been less than a half hour since Parson promoted himself to a field unit (after all, Stanley is still on lunch break). Until THAT happened, there was no way for Parson to physically leave GK, and I can't see Charley having the capability of knowing what personnel changes GK has. So setting a trap for him seems a bit problematic.
Not that I'm buying into the "Charlie has hired assassins in the MK" tinfoil hattery (but I'm not against it, either, just awaiting unfolding events), I believe that you have forgotten that Parson promoting himself to a field unit was totally necessary for the purposes of carrying out his plan. I actually view it as a rather large logical failure in our otherwise logical protagonist. There was no need for him to promote himself. He was not a field unit the last time he entered the MK, so it was clearly not a requirement for his entry this time. There was no reason for Parson to assume that passing into Jetstone would be impossible for a garrison unit, since he was able to pass into GK as a garrison unit. And if there was any issue, promoting himself was an instantaneous effefct. Parson promoted himself for no reason at all, or at least none that is apparent. Charlie is probably well aware that Parson can enter the MK due to Charlie's good relations with the MK. And so if Charlie was looking to dry gulch Parson he didn't need to be aware of Parson's shameless self-promotion (pun intended) to lay such a trap.


Your making assumptions here. Parson was able to enter the MK before, yes. But he left out the same door he came. A garrison unit is assigned to a single city. being in another city could be a game break parson could make... or he could just be disbanded immediately. Rather then discover this the hard way, he played along with the rules this time.

Doesn't hurt that there's multiple reasons this is good for him to do anyway.
Portal X Parson OTP!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby Kyrt » Tue May 10, 2011 11:33 pm

Oberon wrote:Not that I'm buying into the "Charlie has hired assassins in the MK" tinfoil hattery (but I'm not against it, either, just awaiting unfolding events), I believe that you have forgotten that Parson promoting himself to a field unit was totally necessary for the purposes of carrying out his plan.


It wasn't and isn't. His plan unfolded while he was still in GK. He wasn't going to go ahead unless Maggie gave him the "go". And he's heading there not becasue it's necessary, but because of moral reasons...he doesn't want to lead from safety anymore.

At the same time, Wanda and Jack appear to be expecting him so he possibly informed them of his plans. Which means Charlie could have found out about it and gotten someone to PP.

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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby Xumtiil » Wed May 11, 2011 9:50 am

You're all assuming that the GMtTA have received the message correctly. It was encrypted, and they might have thought Maggie wanted them to protect the MK from Parson, and not the other way around.

There is no confirmation whatsoever that they have or havent received the message correctly. I'm thinking the GMtTA are going to the GK portal, attempt to stop Parson and George/Jeftichew is going to stop them with the scroll for reasons that will be explained later.

Also keep in mind that Charlie is absolutely intrigued by Parson, and would rather see him free to end Jetstone than to be captured and interrogated by an entire group of Thinkamancers - especially since Parson is just about the only one that can outsmart Charlie in any given situation. The combined Thinkamancy of the GMtTA + Parson's unusual tactical insights might just well be the end of Charlie.

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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby Sylvan » Wed May 11, 2011 12:58 pm

Xumtiil wrote:You're all assuming that the GMtTA have received the message correctly. It was encrypted, and they might have thought Maggie wanted them to protect the MK from Parson, and not the other way around.
X.



*yawn* Like we haven't heard this since the original text update with Maggie and the g-strings.

Once again, here is her actual text

ErfworldTextUpdates wrote:PGLH TO ENTER MK, PASS GK TO SR PORTAL, PROTECT

She was sure that if the message were received, then the Thinkamancers would protect Parson's passage, for the same reason that her message must be coded in the first place.


Emphasis mine. Isaac developed this cipher himself, so as long as Maggie didn't screw up while putting notches in her g-string it is likely that Isaac has not misread the message.

If you're going to take the "what if they screwed up reading the message position" it is more likely that Maggie herself screwed up the encryption, not that the Thinkamancers themselves (who were involved in summoning PGLH) will suddenly decide to screw around with said Perfect Warlords plans. Not that people don't love to stop by every other update and suggest this theory again.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby Geordy » Wed May 11, 2011 3:49 pm

Zeku wrote:
what the heck is that red thing on the guys forehead in panel 1?
Are we being trolled softly?
No way this is a "crest made of horse hair"? Look at it again, to me it looks more like the head of a broken club or mace, still telling the story of how badass this unit is. :mrgreen:

Housellama, if Charlie listened in on Parson and Wanda before his talk with Tram - why didnt he tell him the whole plan? He could have easily prevented the whole mess.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby Atomic » Wed May 11, 2011 4:04 pm

AHEM. TBfGK Spoiler:
Spoiler: show
As per Page 159 of Book 1, there's no confusion that the GMtTA and Maggie are on the same side...which was already made quite clear by the text update. There's no debate to be had. SERVED. :lol:
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby Housellama » Wed May 11, 2011 4:52 pm

Geordy wrote:Housellama, if Charlie listened in on Parson and Wanda before his talk with Tram - why didnt he tell him the whole plan? He could have easily prevented the whole mess.


And give it away for free?

Besides, it was an open question whether it was actually possible, and even if it was possible, in more than half the possible outcomes, it fails on contact with the ground. Wanda has to survive conscious, OR she has to be incapacitated AND Jack has to be conscious. In five out of nine cases, GK ends up completely booped. Charlie was already giving Tram something for nothing. Why give him more than necessary for a plan that is more likely than not to fail without any possibility of recovery?
"All warfare is based on deception" - Sun Tzu, Chapter 1, Line 18, The Art of War

"The principle of strategy is to know ten thousand things by having one thing." - Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Earth, Go Rin No Sho
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Re: Book 2 – Page 60

Postby DoctorJest » Wed May 11, 2011 4:55 pm

Xumtiil wrote:You're all assuming that the GMtTA have received the message correctly. It was encrypted, and they might have thought Maggie wanted them to protect the MK from Parson, and not the other way around.


Yes because we know Maggie is stupid enough to phrase the message in a way that they won't understand. Especially given that they're THINKamancers. What kind of stupidly farcical irony would it be that Thinkamancers would misinterpret someone's Thinkamancy message?

Who would need an entire college of Thinkamancers to stop one single warlord in a place filled with nothing but casters? Parson might be bright, but he ain't exactly immortal.

There is no confirmation whatsoever that they have or havent received the message correctly. I'm thinking the GMtTA are going to the GK portal, attempt to stop Parson and George/Jeftichew is going to stop them with the scroll for reasons that will be explained later.


I'd put cash money down that you're wrong.

We really need to start an Erfworld betting pool somewhere. I need a new set of tires on my car.
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