Book 2 – Text Updates 050

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:34 am

Lamech wrote:
Yes, that would make sense, Parson would certainly know at at least some forces have been split away from the Atrium in order to secure the portal. So Wanda took everything tunnel capable with her (all the infantry) and left all the dwagons with Sylvia. Since Parson isn't seen giving any orders about the troops not securing the portal maybe he was expecting Wanda would have them consolidate/defend the atrium till he arrived and then go from there, and not be pushing forward on the attack.


Hitting targets of opportunity (Tram and co.) would seem to be the best way to defend against the units in the city and tower. Right now they are clumped and at a choke point against AoE. I would assume its fairly standard tactics to lock the choke point down. Then the debate comes if trying to go for the win would be more effective than throwing gas, fire, gum and smoke at enemies for protecting the dungeon. I don't think we can tell.

Regardless I think its a better plan than waiting for them to enter the atrium and attack you. If you can get free hits in take them.


True, maybe. But I don't know if Wanda was necessarily thinking ahead to the risk, more just Jack's "Checkmate, wouldn't it be?". She did make a point of saying it was her order, not Parson's. She wasn't really going after targets of opportunity (other then the tower, since she wouldn't know Trem would still be there) or the chokepoint, it was all the tower.

Sure, if they killed Slately quickly the battle would be over before it begun. But every dwagon they loose while failing to kill Slately or doing much damage to Jetstone forces is a dwagon they can't replace and that Parson won't have. Plus it makes me wonder which is the best anti-infantry kind of dwagon? Siege isn't usually what I'd think of sending against infantry, and if I remember rightly purples are considered one of the weaker colours (and thinking back to the earlier conversation in this thread all those other dwagons AoE breath aren't going to be able to help the purples choking up the choke-point much).

BakaGrappler wrote:You are also forgetting that the Dwagons have AoE breath weapons that heavily take advantage of the confined spaces, and their bulk makes it so they can crush units just by shifting their weight in such a small area. The best way to fight a Dwagon is to not fight on it's terms, in my opinion.

I think Artemis' move is the best one they can make at this point. Snipe the Warlords giving the Dwagons their leadership bonuses and then have the mook Stabbers take out the Dwagons as soon as they are weakened. Since Decrypted are Dusted, the countercharge would not have to deal with the corpses and would become a very big surprise for the Decrypted in the Atrium. Things could potentially become a horrifying bloodbath over a few square feet of space in that chokepoint.


Sounds like a good idea.

djones520 wrote:I wonder if an unconcious Chief Warlord still gives a bonus?


An interesting question, I'm not sure.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Vreejack » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:38 am

soupy wrote:Anyone else notice the Baldur's Gate 2 default female portrait reference in the image? Or is it just my imagination?

http://images.iml.pl/crpg/bg1/npc/shar-teel.jpg


Nice catch. I thought the tattoos were curious. I am playing Baldur's Gate Trilogy http://www.spellholdstudios.net/readme/BGTReadme.htm right now and I just dueled Shar-Teel for the privilege of refusing her services. But she's an evil amazon.
So...Watashi wa mizugorō ga sukina koto o kiita, neh?
A Prediction is what would have happened had there been no Prediction. What is scary is that they are also what will happen in spite of the Prediction.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Vreejack » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:44 am

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
djones520 wrote:I wonder if an unconcious Chief Warlord still gives a bonus?
An interesting question, I'm not sure.
Don't you think it would be strange if it did? Do I need to explain myself?
So...Watashi wa mizugorō ga sukina koto o kiita, neh?
A Prediction is what would have happened had there been no Prediction. What is scary is that they are also what will happen in spite of the Prediction.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby The.Healing.Mage » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:25 am

Scary thought: if the Purples blow out the side of the tower closest to them, isn't that going to make the tower fall on them?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Pax » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:09 am

balder wrote:"Knights, to me!" shouted Artemis. "Canidae! Alpo! Eukanuba! Stack for stealth! Whatever warlord is leading that siege, that is our target!"


...

Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war! --- Wm. Shakespeare

:geek: :lol:
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Pax » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:15 am

BakaGrappler wrote:Oh, and I only just now figured it out. He's Prince Ossomer because he's Awesomer.

Uh, yeah. All the Jetstone princes are like that:

Ansom = Handsome
Ossomer = Awesomer
Tramennis = Tremendous
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Ytaker » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:07 pm

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:
I wonder, with Erfworld mechanics being what they are, if a Smaug being brough down by an arrow type event could ever occur (probably not).


The arrow was a unique dwarven artifact, passed down from father to son, forged in the Lonely Mountain. The shooter was an extremely skilled royal barbarian archer, considered one the the finest archers in middle earth. Heck of a lot of bonuses on that shot, and it was seen as extremely lucky as well. Probably possible. We know artifacts can be powerful, we know higher level fighters do more damage, and we know that there's some sort of rng for hits.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Oberon » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:49 pm

BakaGrappler wrote:And you know what is awesome?
Your tinfoil hat theory, I'll assume...
BakaGrappler wrote:If Ansom had taken Artemis with him as a second in command instead of Webinar then Parson would have lost the Battle for Gobwin's Knob, since Sizemore just barely won against Webinar's leadership bonus in the tunnels. If a Warlord like Artemis, with her level 7 bonus that is comparable to that of the other Warlords that Webinar had said had higher bonuses than him, had been in those tunnels, Sizemore would have bought it, and Parson's plan would have fallen apart. Just another instance of how Royals are always hamstringing themselves.
Hamstringing, how? Jetstone could not send everything and leave their cities undefended, after all. Ossomer would also have been an excellent addition to the RCC joint strike force, but he was not there. One or more casters would have been of enormous use, but they were not there. The unipegitaurs would have provided the additional forces Jillian needed to not be captured by a few dwagons, but they were not there. And Artimis would have probably have allowed the Jetstone assault on the tunnels to be successful instead of losing every unit they sent in. But Artimis was managing a city, reducing its upkeep costs, improving its production, and being on hand to loan her considerable warlord bonus in case of an attack. All these forces not being there as a part of the RCC anti-Stanley coalition doesn't represent Jetstone "hamstringing itself", it represents the realities on the ground and the fact that Jetstone needed reserve units and rear echelon units in order to maintain the kingdom while a large portion of the army was away trying to snuff Stanley the Worm.

And sure, you can say that leaving Artemis to manage a city was a waste of her capabilities, but we have only her own perspective on the reasons why she was assigned that duty. She can blame "voices at court" for an assignment she did not like, but look what it did for Jetstone as a whole: It placed a self motivated warlord in a situation where she could train herself and other units and gain what was essentially free levels for herself and those units. I won't go out on a limb and ascribe the sort of leadership to Slately that would be required to have recognized her talents and placed her in exactly the right situation to encourage and grow them, but that does seem to be exactly what happened regardless of Artemis's dislike for city management and regardless of court intrigue having a possible hand in her assignment.

If there was any hamstringing involved, it happened when Webinar told Ansom that Ansom had higher level warlords at his disposal, and Ansom decided to use only Jetstone units to grab all the glory, for reasons that make zero sense at all. Only an idiot forms a coalition of peer nations and then decides to only bleed his own side while still having an equal split agreement for the loot, which appears to be exactly what Ansom did indeed decide to do.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby M.A.D » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:01 pm

Oberon wrote:If there was any hamstringing involved, it happened when Webinar told Ansom that Ansom had higher level warlords at his disposal, and Ansom decided to use only Jetstone units to grab all the glory, for reasons that make zero sense at all. Only an idiot forms a coalition of peer nations and then decides to only bleed his own side while still having an equal split agreement for the loot, which appears to be exactly what Ansom did indeed decide to do.


This hamstringing was the direct and intended result of Parson's taunting, so it's OK to not blame Ansom for falling for the enemy's trap.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Housellama » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:24 pm

Swodaems wrote:Chekhov's Wand of Cure Incapacitation

I'm guessing this means that if any of Jetstone's four casters survive the fall, then they will have the ability to cure Trammenis readily at hand. Or maybe even any commander.


*facepalm*

I think I now both love and hate Rob, because despite knowing this reference and looking for it, I still completely missed it. Bravo Rob. Bravo.

Also, to all those involved in the shipping conversation, I refer you to Rule 34. Even if there wasn't before, you good ladies and gentlemen probably created at least two fansites.
"All warfare is based on deception" - Sun Tzu, Chapter 1, Line 18, The Art of War

"The principle of strategy is to know ten thousand things by having one thing." - Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Earth, Go Rin No Sho
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Oberon » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:34 pm

M.A.D wrote:This hamstringing was the direct and intended result of Parson's taunting, so it's OK to not blame Ansom for falling for the enemy's trap.
Since when is is OK to not blame a general officer for falling for a ruse set by the enemy?

Can you imagine the following scene:
Custer: The injuns done fooled me! They tricked me into splitting up my forces into three parts, and then they defeated them in detail! Not fair!
Grant: How did they trick you?
Custer: They sent a messenger with a message which read "Neener neener neener."
Grant: Well, ok then.
Last edited by Oberon on Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby the_tick_rules » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:30 pm

that's a lot of turns, guess we know how long it takes to level up that high. I hope she becomes relevant or that was just a waste of time bringing up a minor character. Oh and yeah if you're the dude in charge and you fall for a trick it's on you.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Beeskee » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:55 pm

It's Ansom's fault for falling for the trick, but I can't really blame him. Parson pushed every one of his buttons in rapid succession, and Stanley's untimely interruption of the call only made it seem all the more real. From Ansom's perspective, it probably looked like the thinkamancer ran out of juice in the middle.


If Pierce the Healomancer has any sense, Tramennis will be un-incapacitated and healed up to full shortly. Assuming Slately ever gets around to moving from his most favorite spot in the whole of Erfworld, at the top of a collapsing building in a city that is about to fall. I suppose I can't blame him too much, he spent the entirety of the only other battle he's seen hiding in a tower.


I don't know the exact rules for how buildings collapse in Erfworld, but in RL, once the main supports go, that's it. The weight of the building pulls the whole thing down.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Dr Pepper » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:24 pm

Oberon wrote:
M.A.D wrote:This hamstringing was the direct and intended result of Parson's taunting, so it's OK to not blame Ansom for falling for the enemy's trap.
Since when is is OK to not blame a general officer for falling for a ruse set by the enemy?

Can you imagine the following scene:
Custer: The injuns done fooled me! They tricked me into splitting up my forces into three parts, and then the defeated them in detail! Not fair!
Grant: How did they trick you?
Custer: They sent a messenger with a message which read "Neener neener neener."
Grant: Well, ok then.


There actually was a movie in which Custer survives and gets courtmartialed.
Read, like there won't be a movie
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby the_tick_rules » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:29 pm

never heard of that, interesting.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Dr Pepper » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:47 pm

"The Court-Martial of George Armstrong Custer"

It was a Hallmark production and aired in 1977. It's probably on Netflix.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Oberon » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:21 pm

Beeskee wrote:It's Ansom's fault for falling for the trick, but I can't really blame him. Parson pushed every one of his buttons in rapid succession, [...]
And why did Parson push every one of Ansom's buttons in rapid succession? To trick him! "The enemy tricked me" cannot be considered to be a valid defense against falling for a trick.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Beeskee » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:21 pm

Oberon wrote:
Beeskee wrote:It's Ansom's fault for falling for the trick, but I can't really blame him. Parson pushed every one of his buttons in rapid succession, [...]
And why did Parson push every one of Ansom's buttons in rapid succession? To trick him! "The enemy tricked me" cannot be considered to be a valid defense against falling for a trick.


That's what I said tho. It's Ansom's fault, but I personally don't blame him. My post was all opinion. Feel however you like about it yourself. :D
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Oberon » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:42 pm

Beeskee wrote:But yes, Spacerock has no tunnels, which means GK has it's back against the wall yet again.
It isn't the GK turn. Off turn, tunnels are just another wall to the GK forces. They are in the best possible position to evacuate the only units they can possibly evacuate while it is not their turn: Jack and Wanda, and Parson if he arrives.
Beeskee wrote:It's Ansom's fault [for falling Parson's taunting] , but I personally don't blame him. My post was all opinion. Feel however you like about it yourself. :D
This may be simple opinion, or it may be cultural. In the military, which Ansom and every other Erf unit is certainly in, the responsibility for success or failure always rests with the commanding officer. And it doesn't matter if circumstances show that the commanding officer had personal involvement and no way of preventing subordinate error. As an example, if a US naval vessel runs aground while the captain is asleep and another officer is in control of the bridge, that captain is still held accountable and will probably never see another promotion for the remainder of his career, if he escapes being simply cashiered from the service. In the example of Ansom he did have a very personal involvement with falling for the trick, and therefore was personally accountable for the losses to the Jetstone side incurred as a result.
Last edited by Oberon on Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 050

Postby Beeskee » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:57 pm

There are no tunnels in Spacerock tho. Only dungeons.

And Ansom ultimately got croaked in front of all his subordinates and allies, then decrypted to serve the side he used to hate. I think he got punished for his mistakes. ;)
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