Book 2 – Text Updates 051

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:32 am

Oberon wrote:
BLANDCorporatio wrote:Yes, or that. The mount's keen animal senses detecting a danger the rider is oblivious to or somesuch. Some proof that Dwagons aren't totally useless :P


Let's wait and see if they manage to take down the tower, eh? Or will you call them useless if the leadership and casters evacuate into the airspace before that happens? If it happens... :?


Well, I guess the only good Dwagon is a decrypted Dwagon. ;)

Oberon wrote:I'm tending towards calling foul on new "standard" Erfworld rules being introduced into the story.

At this point Parson should know every regular rule (a position I held near the end of TBfGK also), and new "standard" rules being introduced should only be new to the readers. And the story value of new rules for the readers loses credibility with every new rule introduced... Asking the readers to accept the setting, and then constantly/frequently/occasionally introducing new setting mechanics both strains the suspension of disbelief and is a bait and switch routine. There are areas in Erfworld where such new detail can be introduced and not be lame, but those are limited to the capabilities of new caster types we haven't seen yet and the bi- and trimancer link spells. Adding never before mentioned standard unit tactics sucks a lot, because the readers by this time should already be aware of this level of detail, even if only peripherally mentioned by Parson or some other character, and the reader should be able to look for the strengths and weaknesses of those tactics for themselves. Or their epileptic tree theories. :)


I'm in general agreement with this analysis. Where I'd differ is in mentioning that "standard" (that is non-magical) rules haven't cropped up to surprise us the readers that much over the course of Book 2. There has been one (nasty) surprise, but that was magical. Then there was the forced landing thing, but it's been foreshadowed by Parson's talks with Jack. And in that context, works well- the idea is, Parson first needed to learn what Erfworlders know about their world, and if one accepts that the forced landing tactic was a surprise to Erfers, well, all's smooth.

Of course, I'm the one who doesn't think such tactics should have been surprising to Erfers, but that's a different discussion.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:00 am

Lamech wrote:
Then why not simply say that is what you think as opposed to, well, saying Trem did something he didn't (or, if you like, making stuff up). And I'm still not quite sure what the reckless action is. This whole post you've been pointing out that you feel Sylvia's best course of action was to take a hand full of purple dwagons and rush tower, killing Slately, no matter the risk, while Trem's best course of action apparently is to not get the king to safety (which is what he was doing, in the only place it could be done).
Here is the thing, the dwagons can't be placed in the tunnels. So where should we put them? In the tower requires an attack.
Okay so what about the atrium? Well we can put them close to the tower or away from the tower. Away from the tower? Well then any archers deploying out of the tower can start well away from the dwagons. (Something Artemis spent time to do) And units can spread out out flank and surround the dwagons before engaging, giving them better positioning and reducing the effect of AoE's. So the dwagons should be close to the tower. Okay so we have dwagons up close to the tower, should we attack or should we not attack? We should attack. It inflicts free damage to the tower. It has forced the hand of the king, forced the hand of Artemis reducing there options. It has removed Tram, and damaged knights.

So clearly we need to attack. The other option includes sitting next the tower wasting potential breathes, and sitting in the middle of the atrium to get surrounded, and swarmed. Maybe Sylvia didn't make the best tactical decisions about the details but I for one vote for not second guessing with our limited knowledge.

Furthermore Artemis and Tram have also made the correct options. The tower is about to fall; leadership must be removed (so the dwagons break off and go for units). Tram had to rescue the king while their was still time. Yes they are really bad options, charging into dwagons and abandoning archers, but the other option was the king's death.


Thanks for suporting my perspective from Sylvia (taking the iniative to force the enemy to come out of their fortress or be buried alive), but I must point out the grave error on Trems part. Going to the frontline himself. His combat stats clearly aren't that high, considering he was the only one being knocked out by the dwagon's breath. That's why you have subordinates and other warlords. Trems should've sent a tough (but expendable) warlord to do the scouting. So if the enemy shows up, at least Jetstone doesn't lose yet another CWL on the same day.

I agree Trems is kinda out of options and needs to get the king out of the city ASAP, but he insisted on doing everything himself, and that's plain bad. He has a precious warlord with the rare archery special, and he just lets her sit idle. Trems has four fully operational mancers under his command, but only used them to activate the tower defenses.

On the other hand, Slatley is showing a considerably better tactical mind by turning to his mancers and asking them to put their magics to good use. If Jetstone gets alive out of this, it will be because Slatley took iniative and used his mancers, not because Trems suicide-scouted.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby Raza » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:35 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Ossomer full-on turning to Jetstone is, imo, less probable, or rather, less probable to have a "happy" outcome. As far as Jetsonians are concerned, Ossomer is dead, and there's a weird lump of Erf-flesh which sorta looks like him floating above their city.


Naw, dude. Ossomer has to turn, to lead Jetstone's final stand in Dhrystone. This has been certain from the moment it first seemed like it would never happen.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby MichaelR138 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:30 am

My only quip against this post is what leadership supposed to do when the CWL goes down? Stand around with their thumbs up their boop?!? Or do they do what they are popped to do and that is lead. She only had this "attack" option available to her AFTER the purples did their damage. Therefore selective use of facts to piece together a story that is not read the same way by everyone is indeed a fallacy.


Except she abaondoned her post when she saw Tremenis calling up her knights, not after he was incapacitated. I will go back to the fact she abandoned her post wtihout telling anyone which is Dereliction of Duty. She is then taking her WOUNDED knights alone on an even more dangerous assasination mission. Not bright, and worse judgement then anything Tremenis has done to date.

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby MichaelR138 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:37 am

oslecamo2_temp wrote:
Lamech wrote:
Then why not simply say that is what you think as opposed to, well, saying Trem did something he didn't (or, if you like, making stuff up). And I'm still not quite sure what the reckless action is. This whole post you've been pointing out that you feel Sylvia's best course of action was to take a hand full of purple dwagons and rush tower, killing Slately, no matter the risk, while Trem's best course of action apparently is to not get the king to safety (which is what he was doing, in the only place it could be done).
Here is the thing, the dwagons can't be placed in the tunnels. So where should we put them? In the tower requires an attack.
Okay so what about the atrium? Well we can put them close to the tower or away from the tower. Away from the tower? Well then any archers deploying out of the tower can start well away from the dwagons. (Something Artemis spent time to do) And units can spread out out flank and surround the dwagons before engaging, giving them better positioning and reducing the effect of AoE's. So the dwagons should be close to the tower. Okay so we have dwagons up close to the tower, should we attack or should we not attack? We should attack. It inflicts free damage to the tower. It has forced the hand of the king, forced the hand of Artemis reducing there options. It has removed Tram, and damaged knights.

So clearly we need to attack. The other option includes sitting next the tower wasting potential breathes, and sitting in the middle of the atrium to get surrounded, and swarmed. Maybe Sylvia didn't make the best tactical decisions about the details but I for one vote for not second guessing with our limited knowledge.

Furthermore Artemis and Tram have also made the correct options. The tower is about to fall; leadership must be removed (so the dwagons break off and go for units). Tram had to rescue the king while their was still time. Yes they are really bad options, charging into dwagons and abandoning archers, but the other option was the king's death.


Thanks for suporting my perspective from Sylvia (taking the iniative to force the enemy to come out of their fortress or be buried alive), but I must point out the grave error on Trems part. Going to the frontline himself. His combat stats clearly aren't that high, considering he was the only one being knocked out by the dwagon's breath. That's why you have subordinates and other warlords. Trems should've sent a tough (but expendable) warlord to do the scouting. So if the enemy shows up, at least Jetstone doesn't lose yet another CWL on the same day.

I agree Trems is kinda out of options and needs to get the king out of the city ASAP, but he insisted on doing everything himself, and that's plain bad. He has a precious warlord with the rare archery special, and he just lets her sit idle. Trems has four fully operational mancers under his command, but only used them to activate the tower defenses.

On the other hand, Slatley is showing a considerably better tactical mind by turning to his mancers and asking them to put their magics to good use. If Jetstone gets alive out of this, it will be because Slatley took iniative and used his mancers, not because Trems suicide-scouted.


Tremenis problem with your plan is he is out of time, and he is the only warlord that the King will listen to about leaving the area . In addition, he really did not have time to send a scout ahead of his stack. The siege had not started yet so he thought he had a chance to to get in and out before anything else happened. It was a calculated risk that did not turn out well, but it was not unsound at all. Artemis leaving her station because she saw someone else leading her personal knights and that got her ego engages ahead of her brain and sense of duty was a much worse decision IMHO.

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby Thu » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:56 pm

Just a couple of musings on the situation:

Slyvia's flanks: There are plenty of extra units in the atrium doing nothing. She knows that there are lots of enemy infantry around. She can presumably see that the atrium has more than one entrance. (She certainly knows that there is an entrance to the portal room). How long would it have taken for her to direct the other dwagons/heavy hobgobwins to watch the other doors? Not that long. Artemis conveyed a pretty complicated message with just hand signals and natural tinkamancy so it stands to reason that the much simpler message of "watch the other doors" could be conveyed pretty easily to the remaining dwagons/heavy hobs. I think it seems pretty clear that she was acting at least recklessly.

That being said had she waited 20 seconds to direct the guarding of her flanks she might not have gotten lucky and hit Trem and the knights so in this case her recklessness paid off.


Artemis' fitness as commander: One of the primary benefits of having a warlord around is that they can act on their own initiative for the benefit of their side. It is not clear what she intended to do when she got down there but her internal monologue suggests that she might have been going to assist in getting the rest of the infantry into battle formations. Now she did start down when she saw Trem stack with 'her' knights so she may have had other intentions, but she certainly recognized the virtue of Trem's plan to take the stack of knights, storm the tower and get the king out since she was going to implement it herself as soon as Sylvia was taken out of the picture


Stacking for Stealth: In the BfGK in the tunnels the gobwins went hunting for unled stacks of marbits. They did not have to autoengage ergo it seems that there are some kind of stealth or at least scouting rules that haven't been fully explained to the reader.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby Lamech » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:24 pm

Thu wrote:
Stacking for Stealth: In the BfGK in the tunnels the gobwins went hunting for unled stacks of marbits. They did not have to autoengage ergo it seems that there are some kind of stealth or at least scouting rules that haven't been fully explained to the reader.
Didn't she yell at the start of the "stack for stealth", that bugs me most of anything. But I don't see the problem. Units still need to see/hear/detect-with-magic stuff to know its there, and Artemis was behind walls. I think it meant "don't clank your armor so loud she can hear us over the purple screaming."
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby Sieggy » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:28 pm

I think I should point out that if ANYONE is holding the idiot ball here, it's Slately. If he had evacuated the tower when Trem wanted (ordered) him to do so, he would be safely out of harms way by now, and their side secure from disbanding. Instead, he 'called a friend' to borrow money so he could appoint a replacement and then go die gloriously so he wouldn't end as a total loser. So now he's stuck at the top of the tower, waiting for his casters to pull something out of the collective asses to save his, and STILL not getting out while he can still do so. As disappointing as Ossomer is as a leader, Slately is far worse. Must run in the family, I hope Trem bucks the trend . . .
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby Beeskee » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:15 pm

Even Slately was trying to do the right thing. What he forgot is that this is not a 'normal' Erfworld enemy he is facing. From what we've seen of other strategies, enemies are expected to do very little offensively when not on their turn. Of course, when he saw the Dwagon Drop he should have realized this, so that was a major strategic failing on his part.


Personally I've been screaming at Slately to GTFO for a long time now so I'm not saying you're wrong. Just that this was so far beyond his understanding and expectations that he may not even have been able to conceive of it.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby effataigus » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:57 pm

Sieggy wrote:I think I should point out that if ANYONE is holding the idiot ball here, it's Slately.


While I agree that Slately is being dumb, I don't think he is being uncharacteristically dumb. I'd argue he's really just being a true Jetstonian here... or making an effort of it at least.

Now accusing Ossomer of holding the emo-ball I can get behind. :D

Lamech wrote:Didn't she yell at the start of the "stack for stealth", that bugs me most of anything. But I don't see the problem. Units still need to see/hear/detect-with-magic stuff to know its there, and Artemis was behind walls. I think it meant "don't clank your armor so loud she can hear us over the purple screaming."


Hahha, good point. I like this from Sylvia's perspective:

Artemis: Stack for stealth.
Knight with blood dripping out of his ears: WHAT?
Artemis: STACK FOR STEALTH
Knight: OK!
Sylvia: *shakes head and orders another barrage*
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby kreszantas » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:33 pm

MichaelR138 wrote:
My only quip against this post is what leadership supposed to do when the CWL goes down? Stand around with their thumbs up their boop?!? Or do they do what they are popped to do and that is lead. She only had this "attack" option available to her AFTER the purples did their damage. Therefore selective use of facts to piece together a story that is not read the same way by everyone is indeed a fallacy.


Except she abaondoned her post when she saw Tremenis calling up her knights, not after he was incapacitated. I will go back to the fact she abandoned her post wtihout telling anyone which is Dereliction of Duty. She is then taking her WOUNDED knights alone on an even more dangerous assasination mission. Not bright, and worse judgement then anything Tremenis has done to date.

Michael


Taken from Text update 50, where "Duty" is stated by this... 'the Countess' internal bowstring had already snapped' which happened as she was observing the restacks of the 1s... she already said to herself 'Don't worry about whose they are right now' meaning each of the troops have an assignment, now that Trem was already incapacitated before she moved, she could effectively resume command of 'her units', so you are saying that is derelction of duty? In the military you keep ALL members of the same side no matter which unit belongs to whom, even though they have their own specific identity.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby Sieggy » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:01 pm

Hmmmm . . . wait a minute here . . . we have Ossomer with his internal tower crumbling, and Artemis with her internal bowstring snapping. Rob's not one to drop things like that without a deeper meaning (especially on the same page). Perhaps this is one of those quantum (transcendental) things, where you move from one 'energy' state to another. Perhaps stress, duty, and opportunity CAN break the mold in which the Titans cast them, and they then possess the capacity to become greater than what they were, or be destroyed. They can become heroes (and are worthy to enter the City), or they fail to measure up and are cast aside. Perhaps that's the contrast between Artemis and Ossomer - one is rising to the challenge, and one of being destroyed by it. Though time will tell . . .
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby Quimper » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:53 pm

Wow. Simply wow! I post one reply stating that i don't like the fact that book 2 has become a total repeat of book 1, i.e one side winning without any opposition to speak of, and then possibly a 180 in the end. And suddenly all the fanbois come out of the closet holding hands. If you don't agree, thats fine. I haven't attacked anyone before they attacked my opinion, which i'm sure i'm entitled to have. But then again. It's difficult to not tear your hair in anger if 100% of the readers aren't totally agreeing with you, having purple stars for eyes of a complete 100% boring winstreak, yes?

Facts: NO, they HAVEN'T lost a single important unit. Plotarmor protects characters from getting (rightfully) killed in the enemys turn, having crit-arrows strike them, dying from falling damage, etc etc ad nauseam. Yes, Ansom has been captured. He's protected from the "not even if he's killed, he's actually killed" deus ex so he's not likely to die anytime soon.

For me. Book 1 was perfectly fine. The feeling of hopelessness until the end. I shared the Knob-fans sense of irritation when it seemed like the attacking side avoided every single one of Parsons plans by sheer plotwall. Book 2 on the other hand seems like a complete repeat of book 1, but with the sides switched. Thats not really interresting or new. To make up for the lack of allies, Goblin Knob instead gets an obnoixious item of "every time we win, we get their units as well" that seems like a broken game mechanic. Not even the veery handy satellite dish or the hammer (especially the hammer) seem to come close to it in terms of conquering the world, which this game is fundamentally about.

So keep your opinions about how fun it is to see the story repeat and one side singlehandedly winning all the important battles without fear of plans being messed up. But keep the trashtalk to yourself when someone doesn't agree that this is interresting.

Yes, i will hang around to the inevitable 90% mark when the Knob will start to loose. I just hoped for a new story with a good twist. Not a rehasch of the last one.

And no, this is a new account, but by no means a new reader. Im guessing the old account timed out or got lost if the forum changed, since the same name has analyzed and disected conspiracy theories about Charlie, the tools and strategies early on in book 1.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby ftl » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:23 pm

Quimper wrote: conquering the world, which this game is fundamentally about.


If that's what you think, you're missing some pretty fundamental things about this world.

It's not a game to the people in it. It's a world that happens to be game-like in many respects, but it's not a game, and it's NOT fundamentally about conquering the world.

It's a very, very different story when the roles are reversed like this. Because the important thing is the *characters* and how they react to their situation. Parson's in a very different place now that he's on the other side of the unwinnable fight. Same with Wanda. (Actually, I'd like to thank you for your post a little, because I hadn't explicitly thought of this story that way. But now that you mention it, it makes a lot of sense! Parson, at the end of the last book, threw away his sword of ruthlessness and declared himself to be a player and not a gamepiece. But can he keep it up when he's on the other side of the army? )
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby MichaelR138 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:33 pm

Taken from Text update 50, where "Duty" is stated by this... 'the Countess' internal bowstring had already snapped' which happened as she was observing the restacks of the 1s... she already said to herself 'Don't worry about whose they are right now' meaning each of the troops have an assignment, now that Trem was already incapacitated before she moved, she could effectively resume command of 'her units', so you are saying that is derelction of duty? In the military you keep ALL members of the same side no matter which unit belongs to whom, even though they have their own specific identity.


What you are not getting either through intentional or unintentional means is that she abandoned her assigned post and assigned troops for this battle to run down and retake control of her favorite troops. She left her post without orders or notifying anyone of authority WHEN she saw Tremenis start giving orders to HER knights, and was nearly down to the tower by the time he was brought out incapacitated. Now her assigned archers are without leadership, which may play a pivotal role in the coming events and she is leading a suicidal charge on only her own authority with damaged elite units into the teeth of GK's forces. In the military, quitting your post without properly being relieved is dereliction of duty, in a battle it also carries the charge of gross negligence and the minimum you will get is a dishonorable discharge and a quick trip back to the home block. Artemis is chasing personal glory and justifying it that she is doing this for the good of her side. If it was to save Slately, why did she not send one single soldier up to apprise the king of the situation and to tell him how urgently he needs to get out of the tower? Because that would not bring Artemis the glory of the battle for her single handedly saving her side. She is a loose cannon and a hazard to all she commands and any plans made by those above her IMHO.

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby kreszantas » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:06 pm

MichaelR138 wrote:
Taken from Text update 50, where "Duty" is stated by this... 'the Countess' internal bowstring had already snapped' which happened as she was observing the restacks of the 1s... she already said to herself 'Don't worry about whose they are right now' meaning each of the troops have an assignment, now that Trem was already incapacitated before she moved, she could effectively resume command of 'her units', so you are saying that is derelction of duty? In the military you keep ALL members of the same side no matter which unit belongs to whom, even though they have their own specific identity.


What you are not getting either through intentional or unintentional means is that she abandoned her assigned post and assigned troops for this battle to run down and retake control of her favorite troops. She left her post without orders or notifying anyone of authority WHEN she saw Tremenis start giving orders to HER knights, and was nearly down to the tower by the time he was brought out incapacitated. Now her assigned archers are without leadership, which may play a pivotal role in the coming events and she is leading a suicidal charge on only her own authority with damaged elite units into the teeth of GK's forces. In the military, quitting your post without properly being relieved is dereliction of duty, in a battle it also carries the charge of gross negligence and the minimum you will get is a dishonorable discharge and a quick trip back to the home block. Artemis is chasing personal glory and justifying it that she is doing this for the good of her side. If it was to save Slately, why did she not send one single soldier up to apprise the king of the situation and to tell him how urgently he needs to get out of the tower? Because that would not bring Artemis the glory of the battle for her single handedly saving her side. She is a loose cannon and a hazard to all she commands and any plans made by those above her IMHO. Michael

Again read the part about duty earlier on, "Regardless, she jumped to her Duty." So when does abandoning duty to do ones free will become an act of dereliction of that very same duty, which is preservation of the side? Who was there to GIVE those orders to which put it your light as "abandoning her post"? She gave the orders to her archery troops before departing. She has every responsiblity to Jetstone to do what she can to ensure the side exists. Things happen on the ground that the grunt troops experience, that most officers or commanders will never hear about. Hence, the disconnect between Ansom and Artemis is magnified even further. Trem stacked for max protection would be my best guess and he used her troops to provide him that, not that it did any good mind you. If Trem had not done HIS actions would Artemis's even be necessary?
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby Musrum » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:12 pm

Raza wrote:
BLANDCorporatio wrote:Ossomer full-on turning to Jetstone is, imo, less probable, or rather, less probable to have a "happy" outcome. As far as Jetsonians are concerned, Ossomer is dead, and there's a weird lump of Erf-flesh which sorta looks like him floating above their city.


Naw, dude. Ossomer has to turn, to lead Jetstone's final stand in Dhrystone. This has been certain from the moment it first seemed like it would never happen.
I'd love Ossomer to turn ... barbarian. A zero upkeep barbarian who is only bound by lower-case duty and loyalty is probably the free-est a non-caster could get in Erfworld.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby The.Healing.Mage » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:33 am

Quimper wrote:Wow. Simply wow! I post one reply stating that i don't like the fact that book 2 has become a total repeat of book 1, i.e one side winning without any opposition to speak of, and then possibly a 180 in the end. And suddenly all the fanbois come out of the closet holding hands. If you don't agree, thats fine. I haven't attacked anyone before they attacked my opinion, which i'm sure i'm entitled to have. But then again. It's difficult to not tear your hair in anger if 100% of the readers aren't totally agreeing with you, having purple stars for eyes of a complete 100% boring winstreak, yes?


I mean, you stated your opinion, we stated ours. We both had a right to. If you can't appreciate that there are people who disagree with your interpretation when you criticize the work of art, then we can't have a calm discussion. Unless you're trolling, in which case calm discussions are off the table altogether.

Quimper wrote:Facts: NO, they HAVEN'T lost a single important unit. Plotarmor protects characters from getting (rightfully) killed in the enemys turn, having crit-arrows strike them, dying from falling damage, etc etc ad nauseam. Yes, Ansom has been captured. He's protected from the "not even if he's killed, he's actually killed" deus ex so he's not likely to die anytime soon.


And who from RCC died in tBfGK until the end? Ansom didn't die until RCC's last turn in the faux parley, Vinny survived, Jillian survived (despite being captured at one point), Webinar didn't die until the tunnel action, Sylvia didn't die until TPK. That's, including Webinar, the last two turns of a siege. A single turn if you don't count him. In book two, we've seen two turns total, and that only because of Kingworld. Sylvia has been bucking the odds, yeah, but both she and Wanda got incapped by the airdrop, and we only know of three living units to survive the landing without being incapacitated (one of four possible options, those being no effect, damage, incapacitation of some sort, or croaking), the Gobwin Heavy, Captain Archer, and Jack. Wanda was incapacitated (unconscious) and Lady Lazarus was incapacitated (pinned). The probability that none were croaked/dusted was low, but entirely plausible. After all, Parson weighed it as acceptably likely to work. And that's assuming that all options are weighted equally. My guess is that there's a bell-curve of damage probability. Unlikely to do a lot or a little, very likely to do some. Plus, as described, Wanda's armor took a lot of damage for her, as well as (my guess) her dead Plated Red.

Quimper wrote:For me. Book 1 was perfectly fine. The feeling of hopelessness until the end. I shared the Knob-fans sense of irritation when it seemed like the attacking side avoided every single one of Parsons plans by sheer plotwall. Book 2 on the other hand seems like a complete repeat of book 1, but with the sides switched. Thats not really interresting or new. To make up for the lack of allies, Goblin Knob instead gets an obnoixious item of "every time we win, we get their units as well" that seems like a broken game mechanic. Not even the veery handy satellite dish or the hammer (especially the hammer) seem to come close to it in terms of conquering the world, which this game is fundamentally about.


And that was what the summer updates were about. In Book Two, the decryption pwn-train derailed pretty damn hard. Queen Jillian was the immovable object to Wanda's unstoppable force, which is what Duncan sensed in the "titans are laughing" update. Besides, Trammenis acknowledges that GK's new riches (as we know, courtesy of Sizemore) could have beaten RCC2 without the 'pliers. Remember that before the food drop, (incidentally, that's the greatest metapun of all time,) most of those dwagons were living. The Archons and some other units couldn't have been obtained the normal way, nor Ansom, but they already had Parson. Ansom's leadership worked out real well compared to Parson's genius, didn't it?

Quimper wrote:So keep your opinions about how fun it is to see the story repeat and one side singlehandedly winning all the important battles without fear of plans being messed up. But keep the trashtalk to yourself when someone doesn't agree that this is interresting.


Glass houses, stones.

Quimper wrote:Yes, i will hang around to the inevitable 90% mark when the Knob will start to loose. I just hoped for a new story with a good twist. Not a rehasch of the last one.


This story is rapidly diverging from the last one. We're about to have open warfare in the Magic Kingdom, we've seen two exploits deployed in the last few hours, Parson is leading superior forces with artifact bonuses in a risky Fool's Mate, and paying for it by having Jillian torch some of his cities. Before, he fought like a guerrilla. Now he's fighting like General Patton.

Quimper wrote:And no, this is a new account, but by no means a new reader. Im guessing the old account timed out or got lost if the forum changed, since the same name has analyzed and disected conspiracy theories about Charlie, the tools and strategies early on in book 1.


Bummer about your loss of Name, dude.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby MichaelR138 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:50 am

again read the part about duty earlier on, "Regardless, she jumped to her Duty." So when does abandoning duty to do ones free will become an act of dereliction of that very same duty, which is preservation of the side? Who was there to GIVE those orders to which put it your light as "abandoning her post"? She gave the orders to her archery troops before departing. She has every responsiblity to Jetstone to do what she can to ensure the side exists. Things happen on the ground that the grunt troops experience, that most officers or commanders will never hear about. Hence, the disconnect between Ansom and Artemis is magnified even further. Trem stacked for max protection would be my best guess and he used her troops to provide him that, not that it did any good mind you. If Trem had not done HIS actions would Artemis's even be necessary?


Okay, by the numbers then

Do you think Artemis placed herself on the wall in charge of the archers there?

Was she ordered to leave that post?

Did she inform her superiors she abandoned her assigned post?

What part of her duty was it to see that no one but her stacked with her knights? That is implicitly stated as her reason for leaving her assigned battle station, which is defined as Dereliction of Duty.

That it puts her in position to now lead the charge is irrellevant to the fact she left her assigned battle station without relief and without telling anyone above her or making provisions for a lower level warlord to replace her. She left her duty station for a spurious reason as well, because someone else was playing with her toys and she did not like the ones she had been given to command nearly as much anyway. We have already seen from internal monologue that Artemis can justify just about any action of hers as "duty" but from firm observation it appears her "duty" is more to find personal glory then to following orders. Her actions have been rash and ill thought out. She has shown no concern for the main battle plan or her place in it and instead has moved off on a personal glory hunt where she can try and fight in a more small scale skirmish that more suits her disposition. I would not at all be surprised if something similar is how ForTheWin met an untimely end. Artemis is a terrible leader in the sense she is great at giving orders, but lousey at following ones that she does not like. She should either be on the wall or have sent someone up there. She should have gone after Slately or sent someone up there. She should have led a larger less damaged force against the purples, but that would not have brought her near as much glory as doing it with only the knights she personally trained. Artemis is the kind of glory hound that usually gets good soldiers killed chasing their own objectives and often fails at the ones they are assigned. As a higher commander you often just hope they don't get too many good troops killed when they die on some wild adventure instead of doing their duty as ordered.

Michael
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 051

Postby The.Healing.Mage » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:08 am

MichaelR138 wrote:What part of her duty was it to see that no one but her stacked with her knights? That is implicitly stated as her reason for leaving her assigned battle station, which is defined as Dereliction of Duty.


No. No it isn't. Not in Erfworld. Your Duty is a force that compels you to defend your side, even if that means disobeying orders. A Paladin would feel the pull of Duty much more than a bureaucrat, if Erfworld has them. She's derelicting her orders, yes, but she's acting in her idea of the interests of her side. Thus, she's doing her Duty.
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