Book 2 – Page 64

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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby MarbitChow » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:42 pm

reignofevil wrote:People seem a bit confused, so a little refresher course on what stacking with a CWL actually means may be called for.
Being in the same hex as a chief warlord gives you (IIRC) half of his bonus, and being in the same stack as a chief warlord gives you his entire bonus. Caesar is a very high level warlord, and so his bonus means quite a lot when applied, even to something like bats.
Parson on the other hand, is a level two warlord, and so Sizemore is definitely getting SOMETHING from stacking with Parson, but I do not believe that it would have been nearly as useful as it was in Caesar's situation, Sizemore is not suddenly going to become a heavy just from stacking with Parson, however he already packs quite a punch on his own and should not be discounted.

It is also possible that stacking confers other benefits, like being able to screen attacks. Sizemore may be making it clear that he'll take a mystical bullet to protect Parson, and as a caster, he may also be better able to counter a spell.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby fjolnir » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:26 am

tigerusthegreat wrote:Due to reading Moby Dick in a class I will mention another MD reference...that of the caster's name Jojo...which is the wooden idol Queequeg carries around and worships as a god. Not sure if someone else mentioned it before.


It has been quite a while since Moby Dick was read by me so good catch!

So how many other Jojo references are we going to grab before he fully disappears?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby jja » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:52 am

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:And gee, Marie looked pretty scared/concerned about the prospect of the spell being cast, and she doesn't even know what it is or the discussion that Jojo and Parson have just had. Or does she? Predictamancer and all that (or again not, maybe it is a variable, something she hasn't seen). Could it be good for Parson, bad for them? Bad for Parson, bad for them?

If Parson goes home, it will ruin their carefully constructed plans. Of course she's scared. Marie can likely be considered the Voice of (Erfworld) Fate here.

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:It will probably be more revealing in the next update that deals with this scene - will Marie suggest Parson give the scroll to her?

I think that Marie will do more than 'suggest'. I will be interested to see the dialogue and actions that ensue from the 'peaceful' Hippiemancers as they try to 'convince' Parson to hand it over. They will no more allow him to depart through the portal with it than a mother would let her child wander off with a live hand grenade.

The resulting conflict should be quite revealing. Parson should gain more information about who his secret backers are and what their plans are for him. It may push him over the edge into using the scroll after all - or he may manage to preserve it as a lever to use against his would-be Hippiemanchurian controllers...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby auraseer » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:15 pm

jja wrote:
Dancing Cthulhu wrote:It will probably be more revealing in the next update that deals with this scene - will Marie suggest Parson give the scroll to her?

I think that Marie will do more than 'suggest'. I will be interested to see the dialogue and actions that ensue from the 'peaceful' Hippiemancers as they try to 'convince' Parson to hand it over. They will no more allow him to depart through the portal with it than a mother would let her child wander off with a live hand grenade.

Interesting thought. It could be significant, but in the end I doubt they'd manage to stop him. Parson still has the staff which means Janis won't be able to just repeat her Avedon spell on him. If she or Marie attempt to physically stop him, the Thinkamancers will have something to say about that.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby jja » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:57 pm

auraseer wrote:Interesting thought. It could be significant, but in the end I doubt they'd manage to stop him. Parson still has the staff which means Janis won't be able to just repeat her Avedon spell on him. If she or Marie attempt to physically stop him, the Thinkamancers will have something to say about that.

I agree that they may not succeed, but I think they will try their very best, and that this may involve some unexpected or extreme behavior. Gordon Dickson pointed out that even peaceful philosophers have their own brands of ruthlessness.

Speculation: Perhaps Jojo or his backer(s) had foreseen this as a possible outcome, and perhaps he was quite happy to leave the scroll with Parson, with the expectation that the attempt to confiscate it it would enlighten him as to the motives of the Hippiemancers. This could be a blow against fate even stronger than just sending Parson home, as it could result in his becoming an active and subversive agent seeking to thwart fate.

OTOH, Parson has shown disgust with the actual results of war, and has had thoughts of haxxing Erf to make it more peaceful. Assuming that this was his own feeling and not some influence of the summoning spell, he may find it most expedient to work with fate in this case. It doesn't mean he has to like it, and it doesn't mean that everything will turn out as planned.

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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby kouhoutek » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:23 pm

Interesting if slightly paranoid observation.

Janis knows Jojo on sight, and knows him well enough to use his nickname.

Casters are a small enough fraternity that recognition isn't a big surprise, but a nickname suggests a degree a cordial familiarity.

Or is it just Hippiemancer informality?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Sieggy » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:34 pm

Well, before anything else, Sizemore has a few introductions to make and some 'splainin' to do. The question is, do Parson and those awaiting him in JS have the time for it? Either Marie & Janis have to keep it REALLY short, or follow Parson through the Portal. Which ought to really blow Wanda & Jack's minds if he shows up with a Predictamancer and Hippymancer in tow . . .

Parson has GOT to know something funny is going on here - his trip through the MK was literally a spur of the moment thing, and yet there are THREE casters who not only knew he was on his way, but seem to have their own plans for him. Sizemore didn't have the time to spill the beans (even if he was so inclined), so Parson has to realize that his operational security seriously sucks. Either that, or he's playing someone else's game, not his own, and I think that would annoy him a great deal . . .
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby EricH » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:37 pm

kouhoutek wrote:Interesting if slightly paranoid observation.

Janis knows Jojo on sight, and knows him well enough to use his nickname.

Casters are a small enough fraternity that recognition isn't a big surprise, but a nickname suggests a degree a cordial familiarity.

Or is it just Hippiemancer informality?

Based on his introduction, he prefers the nickname; so I imagine most anyone who has met him knows him as Jojo...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Housellama » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:40 pm

Oberon wrote:
Housellama wrote:The most dangerous thing is not any kind of lethal technique. It's knowledge. [...] And then he had the tree trimmed.


And thus the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was denied to the students.


Killing someone because you intended to kill someone with a lethal technique because you knew that you had no other choice: Good.

Killing someone because you because you had the wrong idea from watching Sensei teaching more advanced students in secret: BAD.

Sensei wasn't denying knowledge from his students. He was preserving the progression of knowledge necessary for proper instruction. When teaching techniques that kill people, first you have to teach your students how NOT to kill people. Then you have to teach them how to tell when it has become an unavoidable necessity TO kill people. THEN you teach them how to kill people. Climbing a tree circumvents a very important part of the instruction. The part that teaches you reason and judgement.

That's why Sensei trimmed the tree.
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"The principle of strategy is to know ten thousand things by having one thing." - Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Earth, Go Rin No Sho
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:47 pm

Housellama wrote:
Killing someone because you intended to kill someone with a lethal technique because you knew that you had no other choice: Good.

Killing someone because you because you had the wrong idea from watching Sensei teaching more advanced students in secret: BAD.

Sensei wasn't denying knowledge from his students. He was preserving the progression of knowledge necessary for proper instruction. When teaching techniques that kill people, first you have to teach your students how NOT to kill people. Then you have to teach them how to tell when it has become an unavoidable necessity TO kill people. THEN you teach them how to kill people. Climbing a tree circumvents a very important part of the instruction. The part that teaches you reason and judgement.

That's why Sensei trimmed the tree.


Also, someone else witnessing the techniques might not have realized how dangerous they were to the opponent. Or might have overestimated his ability to safely be a sparring partner for someone practicing the technique.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Saladman » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:04 pm

Sieggy wrote:Well, before anything else, Sizemore has a few introductions to make and some 'splainin' to do. The question is, do Parson and those awaiting him in JS have the time for it? Either Marie & Janis have to keep it REALLY short, or follow Parson through the Portal. Which ought to really blow Wanda & Jack's minds if he shows up with a Predictamancer and Hippymancer in tow . . .

Parson has GOT to know something funny is going on here - his trip through the MK was literally a spur of the moment thing, and yet there are THREE casters who not only knew he was on his way, but seem to have their own plans for him. Sizemore didn't have the time to spill the beans (even if he was so inclined), so Parson has to realize that his operational security seriously sucks. Either that, or he's playing someone else's game, not his own, and I think that would annoy him a great deal . . .


If Parson takes his own premise seriously, then I'm guessing no, he heads straight for the portal and asks Sizemore what the boop later. And he does know Sizemore "has attracted some attention from other casters, and is attempting to divert it." Granted, diversion FAIL, but he may not leap immediately to "global conspiracy," at least not enough to stop and chat about it.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Housellama » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:25 pm

Chit Rule Railroad wrote:
Housellama wrote:
Killing someone because you intended to kill someone with a lethal technique because you knew that you had no other choice: Good.

Killing someone because you because you had the wrong idea from watching Sensei teaching more advanced students in secret: BAD.

Sensei wasn't denying knowledge from his students. He was preserving the progression of knowledge necessary for proper instruction. When teaching techniques that kill people, first you have to teach your students how NOT to kill people. Then you have to teach them how to tell when it has become an unavoidable necessity TO kill people. THEN you teach them how to kill people. Climbing a tree circumvents a very important part of the instruction. The part that teaches you reason and judgement.

That's why Sensei trimmed the tree.


Also, someone else witnessing the techniques might not have realized how dangerous they were to the opponent. Or might have overestimated his ability to safely be a sparring partner for someone practicing the technique.


And that's the second part. It's easy to fuck up a technique in practice as is. That's why you practice. And fucking up a technique designed to kill someone is REALLY not a good thing.
"All warfare is based on deception" - Sun Tzu, Chapter 1, Line 18, The Art of War

"The principle of strategy is to know ten thousand things by having one thing." - Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Earth, Go Rin No Sho
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Goshen » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:09 pm

Sieggy wrote:Huh. I just noticed that Marie is wearing a Phrygian cap (aka 'Cap of Freedom'). Since Signamancy abounds in Erf, I think we can take it that Marie is a velvet revolutionary . . .

Good catch! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygian_cap
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby the_tick_rules » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:05 pm

Here's a question that's probably been asked. Who thinks JoJo's scroll actually was going to do what he said it did? Janis and them would sure be motivated to stop him like they did if that was the spell's function.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby kouhoutek » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:40 pm

the_tick_rules wrote:Here's a question that's probably been asked. Who thinks JoJo's scroll actually was going to do what he said it did? Janis and them would sure be motivated to stop him like they did if that was the spell's function.


I think it probably does what Jojo said.

The problem is what he said ("make a wild card disappear", "get you back to where you once belonged") is incredibly vague. A lot of people are assuming it will send him home, and Jojo clearly wants Parson to think that. But it could send him to GK as well, and still fulfill what Jojo's been saying. Hell, it could send him to *Charlie* without Jojo being a liar.

So what it actually does in anyone's guess.

The one thing I am sure of, is that if and when it gets used, what Jojo said will be technically true.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby ftl » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:35 am

And the carnymancer wins without even casting any spell.

We've made assumptions about what the scroll does, and we even talk about what it does, based on INCREDIBLY vague statements. And what he says will be true, and it will end up screwing over the "customer" badly without technically lying.

So goes a carnymancer.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Oberon » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:20 am

Housellama wrote:It's easy to fuck up a technique in practice as is.
It's also really easy to hurt someone with completely correct form. At 18 I was in a karate (technically, Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo) class. As a white belt, I was pitted in sparring matches against more "advanced" students who were much younger and smaller than I. But advanced means having mastered the kata, not necessarily any ability in using the martial art in combat. Mass has a value that skill cannot gainsay... In one match I did exactly as I was taught: I pivoted my hind leg, and raised my fore leg in preparation for a snap kick which would have sent the 13 year old kid with a blue belt (who was 6" shorter and who I outweighed by at least 20 lbs) I was matched against into the wall behind him. The sensei and the two instructors next to him actually "ooh"ed, I presumed at my correct form. I then put my foot down. Sensei asked why I did not kick. I said I did not want to hurt my opponent. He was not impressed. After my payments were expired, I quit and never regretted it. If I had kicked the kid, it would have been in the head. I might have snapped his neck, and at the least I would have left him hurting, maybe with a busted lip, nose, or jaw. That wasn't something I had signed up for.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby ZippyTheBookWorm » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:22 pm

Dancing Cthulhu wrote:It would be a shame if [] she got some hippiemancer goons to ruff him up for trying to interfere in their plans.


The idea of Hippiemancie goons just makes me smile.

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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby gazes_also » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:28 pm

ftl wrote:And the carnymancer wins without even casting any spell.

We've made assumptions about what the scroll does, and we even talk about what it does, based on INCREDIBLY vague statements. And what he says will be true, and it will end up screwing over the "customer" badly without technically lying.

So goes a carnymancer.


Yup, con accomplished, carney escaped, and the mark has no clue what just happened.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby bladestorm » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:10 pm

Maybe where Parson belonged was among his RP group, so the scroll could be used to summon the rest of his gaming group to continue playing out the game Parson had set up.

You are about to command armies in a desperate final struggle for survival......
between all that is noble and decent...
and all that is vile and unholy, not to mention unspeakable.

Sounds like he's set himself up in a good position to GM Gobwin Knob against the other players.
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