Book 2 – Page 64

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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Dr Pepper » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:57 pm

jja wrote:Hippiemanchurian


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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Dr Pepper » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:04 pm

Oberon wrote:
Housellama wrote:It's easy to fuck up a technique in practice as is.
It's also really easy to hurt someone with completely correct form. At 18 I was in a karate (technically, Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo) class. As a white belt, I was pitted in sparring matches against more "advanced" students who were much younger and smaller than I. But advanced means having mastered the kata, not necessarily any ability in using the martial art in combat. Mass has a value that skill cannot gainsay... In one match I did exactly as I was taught: I pivoted my hind leg, and raised my fore leg in preparation for a snap kick which would have sent the 13 year old kid with a blue belt (who was 6" shorter and who I outweighed by at least 20 lbs) I was matched against into the wall behind him. The sensei and the two instructors next to him actually "ooh"ed, I presumed at my correct form. I then put my foot down. Sensei asked why I did not kick. I said I did not want to hurt my opponent. He was not impressed. After my payments were expired, I quit and never regretted it. If I had kicked the kid, it would have been in the head. I might have snapped his neck, and at the least I would have left him hurting, maybe with a busted lip, nose, or jaw. That wasn't something I had signed up for.


I was in a class once where the brown belts would go down the ranks during practice. I never held back when one stood in front of me because i figured if i could hit them, it was their fault. I never hit one.

I probably would have held back for blue, though.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Oberon » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:49 am

Dr Pepper wrote:I probably would have held back for blue, though.
Yeah. But it wasn't the belt, it was the size. I really don't care what belt a 13 year old kid has earned, they just aren't that formidable. I did enjoy sparring with opponents who were my size and above, as I knew that I had a much smaller chance of having their parent ask me why I had hurt their minor child...
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby I<3ChocolateMilk » Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:42 am

I can't remember if it's been mentioned before, but it looks like casters are able to recognise the purpose of a scroll on sight, or at least detect the branches of magic that were used in the creation of the scroll.
And now, of course, the big question on Janis and Marie's minds should be, "Who made that scroll?"
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Sieggy » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:11 am

That and "How did Jojo know to be waiting for Parson with this scroll? Who put him up to it? And why?". Bear in mind that there is a posse of Thinkamancers who are topside 'protecting' Parson (nice job, guys), and when Jojo emerges from the 'egress', I would suspect he's going to be put to the question rather quickly. And given their numbers, they'll get them. The fallout from all this should seriously rock the MK and Erf all the way around. If the Thinkamancers can't cover for Parson's passage through the MK, Parson's rep will spread throughout the entire world (or board), with suitable embellishments with each telling.

And Parson's getting back to GK might be something of an issue if he can't return by way of the MK . . . how many turns away is he . . ?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby drachefly » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:13 am

I<3ChocolateMilk wrote:I can't remember if it's been mentioned before, but it looks like casters are able to recognise the purpose of a scroll on sight, or at least detect the branches of magic that were used in the creation of the scroll.
And now, of course, the big question on Janis and Marie's minds should be, "Who made that scroll?"


Or Marie, being a predictamancer who has in the past made counterfactual predictions (discoveries of FAQ that never happened), made another one.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby auraseer » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:08 am

drachefly wrote:Or Marie, being a predictamancer who has in the past made counterfactual predictions (discoveries of FAQ that never happened), made another one.

I don't know that we have evidence of counterfactual predictions. Marie needn't have predicted "discoveries" of the cities in order to keep the kingdom hidden. She could have just predicted the approach of enemy units-- e.g., "Next turn, a Transylvitian scout bat will move within two hexes of FAQ." That would explain her successfully guiding Jack, without generating any messy paradoxes or self-invalidating prophecies.

Or are you referring to a specific reference that I am not remembering?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby drachefly » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:15 am

Fair enough. There are still ways Marie had of knowing that carnymancers offering scrolls aren't to be trusted. Like, the first half of the first word of that noun clause should be sufficient.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby I<3ChocolateMilk » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:11 pm

drachefly wrote:Or Marie, being a predictamancer who has in the past made counterfactual predictions (discoveries of FAQ that never happened), made another one.

I think we would have a clear indicator that she was using juice if this were the case.
Predictions are her magic speciality.
All the magic we've seen so far has been accompanied by some visual or auditory component.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby kouhoutek » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:29 pm

drachefly wrote:
I<3ChocolateMilk wrote:I can't remember if it's been mentioned before, but it looks like casters are able to recognise the purpose of a scroll on sight, or at least detect the branches of magic that were used in the creation of the scroll.
And now, of course, the big question on Janis and Marie's minds should be, "Who made that scroll?"


Or Marie, being a predictamancer who has in the past made counterfactual predictions (discoveries of FAQ that never happened), made another one.


Faq wasn't "discovered", its position was betrayed by Wanda.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Housellama » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:00 pm

Oberon wrote:
Housellama wrote:It's easy to fuck up a technique in practice as is.
It's also really easy to hurt someone with completely correct form. {stuff about sparring here} That wasn't something I had signed up for.


While I agree with your post and the choices that you made, it doesn't have any relevance to what my post was about. The PURPOSE of that technique was to do damage. The problem you faced wasn't the technique, it was the situation. You performed the technique correctly, but simply chose not to deal the damage.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby drachefly » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:25 pm

kouhoutek wrote:
drachefly wrote:
I<3ChocolateMilk wrote:I can't remember if it's been mentioned before, but it looks like casters are able to recognise the purpose of a scroll on sight, or at least detect the branches of magic that were used in the creation of the scroll.
And now, of course, the big question on Janis and Marie's minds should be, "Who made that scroll?"


Or Marie, being a predictamancer who has in the past made counterfactual predictions (discoveries of FAQ that never happened), made another one.


Faq wasn't "discovered", its position was betrayed by Wanda.


Before that. The ones that never happened, not the one that did. That's kind of the whole point of what I was talking about? Moot anyway, since she could have just been predicting the dangerous circumstance, not an event which could be prevented.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Sieggy » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:48 pm

Housellama wrote:While I agree with your post and the choices that you made, it doesn't have any relevance to what my post was about. The PURPOSE of that technique was to do damage. The problem you faced wasn't the technique, it was the situation. You performed the technique correctly, but simply chose not to deal the damage.

Thinking back, I've seen far more injuries from novices tagging the higher ranks than the other way around. Some of the worst hits I've ever taken have been from tyros, people who were very new and who didn't do/react as an experienced opponent would. I have a major owie right now under my left armpit where a newbie slid under my guard and tagged me with a totally wild shot. I thought he was going to go high, and instead he went low. I've never ganked a newbie, as my control is such that it's unlikely, but I've been tagged hard by people who had no idea what they were doing. The one man the greatest swordsman fears is the worst . . .
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:06 pm

Ups wrong thread.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Oberon » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:53 pm

Sieggy wrote:That and "How did Jojo know to be waiting for Parson with this scroll? Who put him up to it? And why?". Bear in mind that there is a posse of Thinkamancers who are topside 'protecting' Parson (nice job, guys), and when Jojo emerges from the 'egress', I would suspect he's going to be put to the question rather quickly. And given their numbers, they'll get them.
This is a logical conclusion, so let us hope that this or something very similar actually happens. I'm hoping that Chewie doesn't manage to throw down a ninja smoke grenade and just vanish, but I'm not really betting against something like this happening, sadly enough.
Sieggy wrote:And Parson's getting back to GK might be something of an issue if he can't return by way of the MK . . . how many turns away is he . . ?
Parson is one turn away from GK. Once the dwagon relay is set up, that is. There are a pile of dwagons at Jetstone (and it only takes two) to provide the first leg of that relay.
Housellama wrote:You performed the technique correctly, but simply chose not to deal the damage.
True enough. Although I stand 6' and have fairly broad shoulders, I'm no fighter. (And no, I don't count 6 months of martial arts as being training towards being a fighter...) I rely upon my simple presence/mass/whatever to dissuade anyone from f-ing with me, and I don't look for trouble. (My friends and I developed a code of sorts for parties when we were in our late teens/early twenties: When the knife fighting starts, we all walk to/out the front door and watch each other's backs/make sure we're all out of there. Sadly, we had to use this on more than a few occasions. Maybe we went to the wrong parties.) I've been in one fistfight since high school, and that was just a few years after HS and was with an Uncle who decided that he didn't like me telling him that he wasn't my father and couldn't tell me what to do. That fight drew with a bloody lip apiece, and he never again tried to pull authority over me, so I call it a win.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby drachefly » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:05 am

Oberon wrote:Parson is one turn away from GK. Once the dwagon relay is set up, that is. There are a pile of dwagons at Jetstone (and it only takes two) to provide the first leg of that relay.


Do we have confirmation on this from somewhere? It's highly plausible that two dwagons could carry Parson in a net, but this is Erfworld we're talking about, here.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby jja » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:17 am

Dr Pepper wrote:
jja wrote:Hippiemanchurian


You win the Internet. And an autographed picture of Spiro Agnew. He came out of his grave just to sign it for you.

Cool! Did he use a Biro?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Housellama » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:16 pm

Sieggy wrote:
Housellama wrote:While I agree with your post and the choices that you made, it doesn't have any relevance to what my post was about. The PURPOSE of that technique was to do damage. The problem you faced wasn't the technique, it was the situation. You performed the technique correctly, but simply chose not to deal the damage.

Thinking back, I've seen far more injuries from novices tagging the higher ranks than the other way around. Some of the worst hits I've ever taken have been from tyros, people who were very new and who didn't do/react as an experienced opponent would. I have a major owie right now under my left armpit where a newbie slid under my guard and tagged me with a totally wild shot. I thought he was going to go high, and instead he went low. I've never ganked a newbie, as my control is such that it's unlikely, but I've been tagged hard by people who had no idea what they were doing. The one man the greatest swordsman fears is the worst . . .


It's the Titan's honest truth. I can't count the number of times I've heard stories about black belts getting their butts whipped in bar fights against drunken rednecks.

You can predict a professional (for a given value of predict). That makes him less dangerous. You can never predict a newbie. That makes him the most dangerous opponent out there: the wild card.
"All warfare is based on deception" - Sun Tzu, Chapter 1, Line 18, The Art of War

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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby drachefly » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:08 pm

Housellama wrote:It's the Titan's honest truth. I can't count the number of times I've heard stories about black belts getting their butts whipped in bar fights against drunken rednecks.

You can predict a professional (for a given value of predict). That makes him less dangerous. You can never predict a newbie. That makes him the most dangerous opponent out there: the wild card.


It could be that, or it could be that what black belts get taught isn't necessarily the most useful things in a practical fighting situation in a busy environment like a bar. My martial Tai Chi / Maori stick fighting / English pugilism instructor was careful to emphasize fight structure in addition to attack and defensive forms.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 64

Postby Beeskee » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:42 pm

I imagine a skilled fighter, knowing what they are capable of and wanting to avoid any deaths in that kind of situation, would probably be holding back a fair bit. Also, I think there's laws in the US and maybe other places where, if a person knows lethal combat techniques and uses them unnecessarily, it's the same kind of criminal charge as using a lethal weapon.
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