Book 2 – Page 68

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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby effataigus » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:20 am

This quote:

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Hah, if you're into alternative character interpretations, try this one for size. "V" (of "for Vendetta") is True Neutral, in the DnD sense.

The character does actions that are chaos-promoting, but distinguishes anarchy as a goal from "chaos" as an intermediary state. Further, we get the indication that the character who first wore the V mask was actually full-on lawful at some point, but, disgruntled with what Law became, took on the mantle of destroyer (chaos) so that the old system be brought down and a new one built instead by whoever will follow. A quest to balance chaos and order(/law), if you will.


In such close association with this quote:

The.Healing.Mage wrote:I have the same problem with Hipsters. If they're knee-jerk chaotic, doesn't that mean they're still defining themselves based on society? (Also, I hear breathing is pretty mainstream, brah. Not to tweak them or nuthin'.)


Is giving me a newfound respect for hipsters (as loosely defined by Healing Mage, since I have no clue what a hipster is outside of the music scene). Sounds to me like Hipsters are mini-V-for-Vendetta dudes but that limit themselves to attacking the subset of societal assumptions that don't directly improve public saftey. Assuming this will cause us to re-evaluate society's assumptions and eliminate some of the useless or harmful ones, I'm in! Goths, flamboyant gays, arguably even Amish and Vegans... this is a tried and tested way to protest against silly shared assumptions! This is not to imply that all of the people in the above demographics live their life the way the do as a form of protest... just that I'm guessing at least some do.

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Bawww, you revealed my hand. 'Coz yeah, when a series goes through several incarnations (and writers), things will change. Heck, I don't need to do much work to "prove" that Picard is Chaotic Evil. Movie Picard that is, not the one in TNG series.


C/L E/N/G... whatever. I'm drafting Picard for my team right after Mr. Rodgers.

MarbitChow wrote:Nazi-controlled Germany is an example of....


Arright folks. Show's over.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:10 am

effataigus wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:Nazi-controlled Germany is an example of....

Arright folks. Show's over.

Godwin's law only applies to Nazi analogies, not to actual historical examples. Examples of lawful evil societies would include Nazi Germany, and would also include America when slavery was legal, and the Aztec civilization (which included human sacrifices). The over-use of this meme kinda bugs me. I guess I'm a bit of a meme-Nazi.

... Crap. Ok, now it's over.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby effataigus » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:20 am

Your response to my shameless trolling was both informative and jokingly self-effacing.

+2 to internets!
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby drachefly » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:21 am

The.Healing.Mage wrote:There is a contignent of Archons scouting around GK itself at approximately the same time - which by by-product is helping Stanley stock up on Dwagons. Those Archons are definitely in addition to Wanda's war party. Plus, the Archon Barracks (Summer) text update made it seem like there are still a fair number back at GK. However, I also find 28 mentioned (the fireworks display, summer Updates), and can't find anywhere with a higher headcount.


There was such a contingent, but Ansom took them all. Stanley was griping about it in a text update.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby The.Healing.Mage » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:30 am

effataigus wrote:
The.Healing.Mage wrote:I have the same problem with Hipsters. If they're knee-jerk chaotic, doesn't that mean they're still defining themselves based on society? (Also, I hear breathing is pretty mainstream, brah. Not to tweak them or nuthin'.)


Is giving me a newfound respect for hipsters (as loosely defined by Healing Mage, since I have no clue what a hipster is outside of the music scene). Sounds to me like Hipsters are mini-V-for-Vendetta dudes but that limit themselves to attacking the subset of societal assumptions that don't directly improve public saftey. Assuming this will cause us to re-evaluate society's assumptions and eliminate some of the useless or harmful ones, I'm in! Goths, flamboyant gays, arguably even Amish and Vegans... this is a tried and tested way to protest against silly shared assumptions! This is not to imply that all of the people in the above demographics live their life the way the do as a form of protest... just that I'm guessing at least some do.


Hipsterism is the self-declared successor to Counterculture, insofar as I understand it. Hipsters are obsessed with social causes and rabidly against the mainstream, so much so that once something that they like becomes accepted by the mainstream, they reject it. This leads to the "I liked [x] before it was cool" line that is most used to parody hipsters. (And, if you're really meta, nesting "before it was cool" is pretty much the highest form of trolling them, which I was doing before it was cool.;)) Hipsters also feel the need to dress bizarrely for the expressed purpose of expressing themselves - but how torn shorts, tight pink shirts, fancy hats, big fake black plastic glasses, and earrings is expressing themselves is up to you to decide.

Also, MarbitChow, I see effataigus's +2 internets and I raise him another. I was considering saying something, but it wouldn't have been half as epic as your response.

EDIT:

drachefly wrote:
The.Healing.Mage wrote:There is a contignent of Archons scouting around GK itself at approximately the same time - which by by-product is helping Stanley stock up on Dwagons. Those Archons are definitely in addition to Wanda's war party. Plus, the Archon Barracks (Summer) text update made it seem like there are still a fair number back at GK. However, I also find 28 mentioned (the fireworks display, summer Updates), and can't find anywhere with a higher headcount.


There was such a contingent, but Ansom took them all. Stanley was griping about it in a text update.


Good spot! I think that also more or less conclusively states that Wanda and Ansom brought all of the Archons. Yikes. Hope Slately doesn't have a secret volcano under his city. I actually kind of like them! They make Parson suuuuper awkward, which is hirarious. And the "flash mob" gambit was an excellent pun that I'm actually a little disappointed that nobody has made before. Also, Xin's artwork. Need I say more? (Say no more, say no more.) ;)
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby Decorus » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:58 pm

Disband yourself was directed at the lowly trooper who doesn't understand why they are waiting for Lord Hamster given his low level.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby gazes_also » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:06 pm

The.Healing.Mage wrote:
Hipsterism is the self-declared successor to Counterculture, insofar as I understand it. Hipsters are obsessed with social causes and rabidly against the mainstream, so much so that once something that they like becomes accepted by the mainstream, they reject it. ...
Hipsters also feel the need to dress bizarrely for the expressed purpose of expressing themselves - but how torn shorts, tight pink shirts, fancy hats, big fake black plastic glasses, and earrings is expressing themselves is up to you to decide.

)


Pretty much the same could be said of any "contercultural" group. Over the last 100 years there has been the jazz age 'lost generation', the Beats, the Mods, Hippies, Punks, New Romantics, young fogeys, Hip Hop, to name but a few. Hipsters seem to combine recognizable elements of Mod and Young Fogey cultures. It's a great way to annoy your parents' generation to reject their values and style and embrace your grandparents' style ( or even you great grandparents).
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby splintermute » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:20 pm

Decorus wrote:Disband yourself was directed at the lowly trooper who doesn't understand why they are waiting for Lord Hamster given his low level.

It had to be directed at Jack (for ribbing Wanda about losing Ansom). If it were directed at Antium, he would have actually been compelled to disband himself.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby drachefly » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:51 pm

Plus, that's a high level warlord, not a grunt.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby Housellama » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:22 pm

drachefly wrote:Plus, that's a high level warlord, not a grunt.


And she's threatened Jack like that before. This is just a verbal rebuke rather than a physical one, as she's distracted.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby Oberon » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:26 pm

Kreistor wrote:"Kreistor, for example, has only red eyes. And the closer one is always much bigger proportionally than the few inches would indicate for perspective. Maybe he is Charlie! Or related to Parson!"
The bold parts attack my efforts, not the subject matter of my message. They mock the attempt to find pattern and explanation, not the irony of my avatar selection.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby drachefly » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:38 pm

Sigh. It was a 'take something out of the context to which it applies' joke, not a 'this is dumb' joke. So was this one. Just so we don't have a second round of this.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby Squall83 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:30 am

With every page I love Erfworld more and more. So many main characters, so many interactions happening at the same time. And therefore the war goes on sooo slowly. It's really amazing that the 2nd book started at the end of October 2009, so there's two turns which took 1 year and 9 months, even though we have plot-dense text-updates.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby sleepymancer » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:55 am

splintermute wrote:
Decorus wrote:Disband yourself was directed at the lowly trooper who doesn't understand why they are waiting for Lord Hamster given his low level.

It had to be directed at Jack (for ribbing Wanda about losing Ansom). If it were directed at Antium, he would have actually been compelled to disband himself.


Definitely aimed at Jack, that's ?friendly banter that is. However, if it had been aimed at Antium he wouldn't necessarily have had to disband himself. If she intended him to, then yes he would, if it was just a figure of speech he would have recognised/known that. The natural thinkamancy of (especially experienced) leaders to units would convey it, the arkensituation would just amplify that, i think.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby effataigus » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:15 pm

sleepymancer wrote: the arkensituation


The fourth known Arkentool is a 6 pack??
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby Feyrauth » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:16 pm

gotmer wrote:
True, Slately is about to flee


No I think Slately is about to hunt. The text updates made it clear he wanted to hurt someone, likely his son on the carpet. GK suffered when they thought his other son was contained and he hunted. I would not count the little man out.


IIRC, last we saw of Slately, Ace was making a lightsabre for him. Which suggests hunting rather than fleeing. Lightsabre + jetpack makes an awkward combination, which makes me believe the jetpack will be used by Tram.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby Feyrauth » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:19 pm

splintermute wrote:
Decorus wrote:Disband yourself was directed at the lowly trooper who doesn't understand why they are waiting for Lord Hamster given his low level.

It had to be directed at Jack (for ribbing Wanda about losing Ansom). If it were directed at Antium, he would have actually been compelled to disband himself.


Not sure about the compulsion there. Wanda is a caster, and for some reason erfworlders assume casters can't be warlords (exception being Parson). So Antium should have higher command, even if Wanda is making the tactical decisions.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby ftl » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:25 pm

Feyrauth wrote:
splintermute wrote:
Decorus wrote:Disband yourself was directed at the lowly trooper who doesn't understand why they are waiting for Lord Hamster given his low level.

It had to be directed at Jack (for ribbing Wanda about losing Ansom). If it were directed at Antium, he would have actually been compelled to disband himself.


Not sure about the compulsion there. Wanda is a caster, and for some reason erfworlders assume casters can't be warlords (exception being Parson). So Antium should have higher command, even if Wanda is making the tactical decisions.


Yes, but he's decrypted, and Wanda has dominion over all her decrypted soldiers. Remember her discussion with Ansom from earlier in this book?
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby Kreistor » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:18 pm

Feyrauth wrote:Not sure about the compulsion there. Wanda is a caster, and for some reason erfworlders assume casters can't be warlords (exception being Parson). So Antium should have higher command, even if Wanda is making the tactical decisions.


It's not an assumption. From Klog #10:

"[Sizemore] told me that Casters are Commanders and can lead stacks, but they almost never do. Casters are too rare and valuable to risk, and they give no leadership bonus to the stack anyway. Only Warlords have leadership."

But there are exceptions:

"Or the huge [bonus] to Uncroaked units lead by a Croakamancer(!)."

It isn't a big reach to recognize that Decrypted are getting that same bonus from Wanda. It doesn't say specifically that this bonus is leadership, but the context doesn't change, so it should be.

It's obvious why Ansom leads during the early part of Book 2. His bonus extends to all units, including the Hobgoblins, Twolls, and Dwagons that are not Decrypted. Wanda's does not. After losing Ansom, the few units that will not gain Wanda's bonus remaining in Jetstone don't justify her not being Chief Warlord, and Parson doesn't even suggest her. That may still be tradition talking, but it may also be a consideration that there are non-Decrypted troops across the GK side that would not gain any bonus from her. Jetstone is important, but it's not everything GK has to worry about.
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Re: Book 2 – Page 68

Postby Sieggy » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:09 pm

Has anyone else wondered about the fact that Wanda is sending Hamster an Eyebook message? I doubt seriously if tGMMTA are prepared for what Parson can come up with if he can double team them from both sides. If he's alerting Wanda to the current situation, life can get really interesting for the Thinkas REALLY fast.

Consider, they think they have Parson where they want him . . . however, he has 3 casters he can stack with down in the tunnel with him, as well as two more (one of whom is swinging an Arkentool) who can pop through from the other side. And this might be a great opportunity to find out whether or not the decrypted can pass through portals. As I said before, if they can, this changes the balance of power radically - for the first time, the MK could face military forces entering it.

Also, if Charlie is hacking their messages, at this point he has to be ready to pop a cork, though he may see this as a golden opportunity to assault GK. With the CWL and all casters away, it leaves him with a pretty good chance of success, especially if he's massed his currently-unemployed Archons for one big push.
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