See ya, Erfworld

[Mourn]

I know I'm hardly the first to make one of these topics, but oh well.

I'm going to stop coming to erfworld.com and its forums completely. I've been following the comic since its first comics on giantitp.com. I've bought the books and other merchandise (dragon plushes and such) to support everybody involved, not even as much the fact I wanted them. Traveled to close-ish cons to see and support whoever was there and maybe buy something. I've sent multiple people the way of the comic. I try to go to the "plugs" and such that Rob, then Jamie, and now Xin put up. I am/was a tool on two different forum names. And up to now, I've kept quiet about the heavily degraded pacing and release rates on comics. I hope how much I tried to support the comic lets me be upset. I've been patient for quite some time, but it just hasn't changed for the better. I mean, jeez, I left the country for a month and a week and was almost ecstatic when there was a whopping three updates when I got home (where nothing even really happened).

I know Rob is off living his life and dream. I respect that, and more power to him. But it's at the point where I don't care anymore and am definitely not feeling at all rewarded for my effort to help the comic out (I.E. at least semi regular updates.) Hell, I don't even think the people who are coming to the site just to read the comic are really even being rewarded for it. Canceled my tool payments so I guess I'll see ya' guys around. Been good.

[Mourn]

Also, I know that post was written really awkwardly. I did it when I had free time over the day on my phone, so it's pretty bad haha

[BLANDCorporatio]

Hi Mourn. Or not, since you've said you aren't reading this anymore. But if you were, a question- why not reveal your forum ids? Why not use those to make a statement of "I'm leaving, good booping bye"?

It would make your statement of having been an ardent supporter, once, more credible. And it would have been slightly more honest and brave than hiding behind sock-puppet number >=2. As if burning bridges from a pseudonym were brave, but still.

Apart from that, more power to you. You did the almost right thing; if Erfworld is no longer an enjoyable webcomic, leave it behind. I say "almost" because there should be no shame in that decision or a need for sock-puppetry.

Fare well.

[JustMakingAPoint]

Hi, I'm Warder.

This is my first post here, and the reason for that is due to posts like the one I quoted. I've been reading Erfworld since day one. I have Erfworld merchandise. I am, for all intents and purposes, an 'ardent supporter'. But on these forums, that doesn't matter. The prevailing attitude is that unless you've been registered for a very long time and unless you have a Tool icon next to your name, your word means nothing, especially if that word consists of criticism.

Hi, I'm Justin.

I've just registered because of the post I just quoted. I own ALL the Erfworld Merchandise, and have setup 10 Tool accounts, just because I can. But I agree, the community here is incredibly boring, servile and stuck up.

Except for BLANDCorporatio, who is a fine, sensitive and strong gentleman, and happens to be totally right in this exchange.

Ok, if anyone didn't notice, this is BLAND speaking. See how easy it is to make a comment agreeing with someone, or claiming absolutely anything at all?

And Jesus Christ, if you want to criticize Erfworld or its pacing, do so. I do it as well. But for the love of whatever, especially if you claim to have established forum accounts, use those instead. You'll notice my beef with the OP was not the criticism, but their desire to hide behind a 2-post account. As if using their "proper" accounts would be any danger.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Ok, if anyone didn't notice, this is BLAND speaking.

And just so that there won't be a plague of 1-post wonders all claiming to be me and talking trash, I confirm that JustMakingAPoint is an account I've just set up.

Btw, is it just me or have the captchas become fiendishly hard? Is that a 3, an E, an F, WTF? Pretty soon, only the spambots will be able to read the captchas.

[MarbitChow]

This is also BLANDCorporatio. I just wanted to prove how easy it is to hack an existing account and post a response agreeing with myself. Seriously, security around here really needs to get beefed up! MarbitChow, I've reset your password for you. Next time, use something besides 'password', please.

[kagato23]

Bland, if that is you doing that... not cool. Irregardless of how secure a password is, doing that is going too far.

Hi Mourn. Or not, since you've said you aren't reading this anymore. But if you were, a question- why not reveal your forum ids? Why not use those to make a statement of "I'm leaving, good booping bye"?

It would make your statement of having been an ardent supporter, once, more credible. And it would have been slightly more honest and brave than hiding behind sock-puppet number >=2. As if burning bridges from a pseudonym were brave, but still.

Apart from that, more power to you. You did the almost right thing; if Erfworld is no longer an enjoyable webcomic, leave it behind. I say "almost" because there should be no shame in that decision or a need for sock-puppetry.

Fare well.

Hi, I'm Warder.

This is my first post here, and the reason for that is due to posts like the one I quoted. I've been reading Erfworld since day one. I have Erfworld merchandise. I am, for all intents and purposes, an 'ardent supporter'. But on these forums, that doesn't matter. The prevailing attitude is that unless you've been registered for a very long time and unless you have a Tool icon next to your name, your word means nothing, especially if that word consists of criticism. It has made me wholly unwilling of contributing to this community - thus why I have not signed up prior to this post - but as I echo the original poster's sentiments, I thought I'd speak up about the issue and perhaps - at the very least - make you aware of it before I depart this community I have lurked in since its inception.

As for Erfworld's pacing and lack of updates, there's not much I can say that others haven't already said, except that we were promised almost a year ago that the update schedule would improve - not soon, but at least in the foreseeable future. It has steadily gotten worse since then, and there is no light at the end of the tunnel. I wish Rob and Xin all the best in their endeavours, but it'll have to be without my support; I don't have the patience to follow a story that doesn't move forward.

Finally, to the Erfworld community - I know you think you're serving Rob's best interests by squelching dissidents and saying "it's okay, have patience". I know you are doing what you think is right. I really, really don't think it is. Any business - and yes, Erfworld is now a business - needs to hear complaints in order to prosper - even if Rob himself has implied otherwise. Without these complaints from customers - and yes, we are customers - this dream that Rob has will undoubtedly crash and burn. Every word of feedback, positive and negative, is essential. I wish you'd treat the negative feedback with the same respect you do the positive.

Thank you and farewell,

Warder

Warder, I hope your still on, you said a lot of good things, but while I just disagreed with BLand for entirely unrelated issues, he's right on the one count. I don't think your lack of previous posts means anything, but mourns does. Because he admits he's somebody else and made a new account to leave. That is lame and somewhat cowardly. One should own their departure. If he has problems, he should post them as himself. His actions suggest he's either afraid of being judged, has no intentions of leaving but is hoping his "depature" results in actions, or more likely is thinking of coming back to check in the future and doesn't want to burn his bridges. Which means he shouldn't be posting about burning his bridges. Just say your out, or simply stop posting. I've been away from posting for a while, I just never thought it deserved a thread.

Feedback is important. Doing what you want in terms of deciding to support things or not is fine. But doing so in this sort of way will invite a measure of scorn.

[ftl]

This is MarbitChow. Since apparently my account is not secure from BLANDCorporatio, I've taken ftl's. I'm pretty sure this one is safe.

[Sixty]

This is Rob Balder, due to an epidemic of account thefts I have seized Sixty's account to secure myself a backup account.

[Atomic]

Hi, I'm Atomic.

This topic made my day. I could detail the many ways in which it made me laugh; of how I shook with a fit of giggles similar to that of a teenaged girl. Of how I began to shake with mirth when images of sock puppetry were conjured into my brain... or of the seizure-esque convulsions I entered into by the end of the topic. But I won't talk about any of that. 'Cause that'd be creepy.

Regardless of sock puppets/BLAND's uncontrolled hacking skillz (AND I KNOW!! THOSE CAPTCHAS ARE SO FRIGGIN' HARD!), I think people are confusing the right to free speech with the fact that I don't care. Hold on, that sounds douche-ish. I rephrase. Warder is right on at least one point: the prevailing attitude is that you need to have been registered for a while/ need to be a regular poster for us to value what you have to say... but why should it be any different? This isn't the first time people have complained about their opinions not being respected simply because they're new, and I find myself agreeing. Opinions are like dead bodies... we all have one. Maybe more than one, if we're special. Most of us hide 'em away, but some people like to flaunt them. I forget where I was heading with this, but I feel like it's too enjoyable of a simile to delete. I digress.

Why should I respect a word coming out of your mouth when I don't know you from John Doe? I can't see your credit card history, or your internet history, or even talk to your friends/family... so when it comes down to it, what all do I have to go off of? A Toolbox subscription, and how active a poster a person is. Anything else is just begging us to accept whatever sob story PlotArmour wants to weave out of his magical web of magic.

So yeah. I'm a little all over the place in this post, 'cause I'm just typing what I think, when I think it. But I'll try to sum it up:

It's not that I don't respect the two of you (or, as BLAND speculates, you being a single entity), or your views, or the fact you've purchased a flock of Dwagons from the store. You'd be hard pressed to find a single person who'd hold that against you in a begrudging away... but until you have an ounce of factual credibility behind your name? You'll get no sympathy, or support, from my side of things.

Go away, you squatter hobbits.

[Mal]

This is Rob Balder, due to an epidemic of account thefts I have seized Sixty's account to secure myself a backup account.

My fellow Americans, this is your President addressing you. Due to these sensitive and troubling times, I have instructed to FBI to seize Mal's account for my own use. Rest assured, I shall not allow this Account hacking scourge to tear this nation apart. We must band together, or the Hackers have already won. Buy war bonds. God bless America.

[Beeskee]

Quoting Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation, "I'm not into ongoing comics because, to my mind, a good story is like good bowel movement. It's only really satisfying once it's ended. Because if you just keep going, then eventually your body runs out of shit and moves on to pushing all your internal organs out your sphincter until only a foul-smelling shell remains. Anyone who wants to get in on your incredibly long poo gets turned off, because they need to have gone through all the poo up to that point to have the necessary context."


In other words, take a break for a decade and there will be two or three finished books to read. Pretend the website doesn't exist. If you stick around, be aware of what you're signing up for: A never-ending story, which, while being completely awesome, updates only slightly more frequently than VGCats.

I'm sticking around because I like the story and I can deal with the slow updates even though the speed is starting to bug me. Who knows, maybe I'll be starting one of these threads in a year or so.

[Steve-D]

The slow pace of updates has bugged me to the point where I've decided to drop my sub until things improve.

We've had what; 2 strips and one text update in the past four weeks? And the most recent strip was largely filler with no new developments in the story.

[Tensor]

I've learned a few things from erfworld:

1) Supporting as a tool does not entitle you to anything

2) This comic has been in a state of "don't worry, it'll get better" for two years now

3) Your books are in the mail

4) Rob is living the dream

Oh yeah...

5) Steve-D, you are clearly a dissident and need to be squelched immediately. Don't worry, you will be ridiculed and disparaged by the tool-gestapo very soon. How rude of you to have an opinion and how DARE you state it publicly. Criticism is unacceptable nein! nein! nein!

[drachefly]

3) Your books are in the mail

Or, looking over the thread you're talking about:
Tensor: I don't have my books
Rob: Well, it's probably on the way. The guy you need to talk to is Mal
(This being a small operation, Mal is really the only one, and he is out of contact for the eternity of THREE WEEKS, ZOMG)
Mal: Oh, fixed it.

That's not quite the same thing, is it?

4) Rob is living the dream

Citation?

5) Steve-D, you are clearly a dissident and need to be squelched immediately. Don't worry, you will be ridiculed and disparaged by the tool-gestapo very soon. How rude of you to have an opinion and how DARE you state it publicly. Criticism is unacceptable nein! nein! nein!

In, say, the 'moan about pacing' thread, how many people actually disagreed with Steve-D?
msb allowed that his position was valid, so long as he meant X and not Y (when X was Steve-D's main point).
(X = updates are slow. Y = each page does too little to advance the plot)
ftl only disagreed with Y
Tensor (that's you) piped in with a bitter pill aimed at msb
Sieggy essentially agreed with Steve-D on half of X, though, only obliquely referenced Y but seemed to disagree
Beeskee agreed on X, again disagreeing on Y, and made light of the notion that Steve-D was being shunned
Steve-D reiterated X, downplayed Y.
I criticized a claim that opposed X
Godsire agreed outright.

So, the rate of agreement was around 60%; only one comment could even be vaguely interpreted as 'get out of here', which was 'I wonder why you're still here'. Which is to say, a QUESTION, not a COMMAND, INSULT, or even a SUGGESTION.

[Beeskee]

4) Rob is living the dream

Citation?

The current Erfworld newspost:

Yes, it's worth it. I'm kinda living my dreams right now, so I've got to give everything I have to keep making it happen. Thanks for continuing to understand and support that. Xin and I will see you at GenCon!

Beeskee agreed on X, again disagreeing on Y, and made light of the notion that Steve-D was being shunned

I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings with my link, it was intended as a joke. Completely spoiling the joke: partway through the linked video one of the unicorns says "Shun the nonbeliever! Shun! Shhhhuuuuuuunnnnnnn-a!" in response to Charlie saying there's no such thing as Candy Mountain. I hope folks that watched it understood I was agreeing with Tensor on both points: that overzealotry doesn't particularly help Rob make a better comic, and that folks can be critics of one aspect (in this case, the update speed) while still being fans of the comic as a whole. Constructive criticism does have a place here, but we have to make sure it's constructive. I suggested a buffer. It's not a perfect solution and it will take time to implement. It isn't magic either, Rob can't just go "I wish for a buffer!" and have one appear.

I didn't really respond to Y, neither agreeing or disagreeing. I don't have a specific opinion either way on whether an individual page advances the plot enough for everyone, since it's a rather personal opinion. I have my own personal opinions on individual pages, I'm just saying I don't think my opinion is other people's opinion. A page one person feels could have been skipped will be another reader's dream update.



Being a Tool entitles you to a special avatar accessory and access to the Toolbox, and that's it. No faster updates for members, no secret comics, just some wallpapers and stuff. And that's fine as long as everyone understands what they're getting. Think of it as a donation so Rob can keep making Erfworld full-time. All the books and tshirts and stuff aren't going to make him rich. Neither are Tool donations. I don't think he's cruising in Ferraris and buying million dollar houses off our $3 a month. (Rob: If you are, I want in on some of that. ) Also remember he had to buy all those books, the book sales are taking him out of the negative not putting him in the positive. Consider your own finances before signing up, if you can't afford $3 a month, don't sign up, or unsubscribe if your situation has changed. That isn't meant to be insulting, $3 doesn't sound like a lot to some folks but it can represent half a month's worth of food to someone else. Mmn. Ramen.


(Edited due to confusion over who I was quoting. Oops.)

[Tensor]

the linked video...of the unicorns

...was probably my favorite video of the year. I thank you for that.

[Beeskee]

There's 2 more.


Edit: Gawd, I try and make a short post and all of the white space stares at me, accusingly. So this has some actual content: All of the above being said, I do hope Rob updates more frequently. I've been reading webcomics since the origin of webcomics, and I've seen some damn good ones vanish because the updates slowed down, the comic lost readers and slowed down even more, lost more readers, and eventually stopped updating and all their readers vanished. I really, really hope that doesn't happen to Erfworld.


Edit2: BOOOOORED. And all the new posts here are spam. Oooh. A pony maker!

[BLANDCorporatio]

5) Steve-D, you are clearly a dissident and need to be squelched immediately. Don't worry, you will be ridiculed and disparaged by the tool-gestapo very soon. How rude of you to have an opinion and how DARE you state it publicly. Criticism is unacceptable nein! nein! nein!

Ok, 5) is kinda over the top, don't you think? Steve-D made a thread about this topic, and as drachefly summarized, most people tended to agree to the sentiment.

Want my 2 cents? Erfworld IS updating infrequently, and there are several updates that are filler (they do not move the story briskly forward; acceptable they would be in a book where pauses for breath and context are welcome, but a book is not a webcomic but a very different medium). At least half of the previous sentence is a fact.

So where's the Gestool police?

[Kreistor]

WEll, first, no one is making a living off this comic. It's just not that popular. Rob's efforts on the comic itself would take no more than 2 hours of his week.

Xin's time investment is much larger. There's a lot more than 2 hours of art. But for her, it's experience and practice.

I will not complain about the release rate on this comic. Had it picked up the tens of thousands of readers it needed, well, we could complain. But it didn't. It has enough to keep it going for Book 2. Maybe Book 3, but we'll see.

If Rob can't keep it up as a Webcomic... I'd like him to try turning it into a text-only serial. That's what Sherlock Holmes was. Why not?