Book 2 - Text Updates 053

[Oberon]

Trapped, how? Either on-turn or off-turn, Parson can move between any two cities with a MK portal. Or just move into the MK to escape death (or capture), similar to the end of Book 1. How about exiting the same way he entered?

I believe we only have evidence of MK portals being in capital cities so far. I could be outdated on this. Not that I bring up this point to counter your argument in general, I'm just focusing on the "any city" part of it. Although Kreistor, as usual, already pointed out the biggest hole.

Infidel wins a cookie!

I fail to see how ignoring my qualifier "with a MK portal" wins someone a cookie. It's easy to score points when you can change the words around or just ignore them without being called on it. At least he admitted that he was focusing on the "any city" part while ignoring the "with a MK portal" part.

Well i would expect that something as awful as the Belgariad would be a lot faster to write than something as great as Erfworld.

Agreed. Eddings writes very one dimensional, "archetype" characters. The slim thief's nose twitches when he senses an opportunity to make a buck, he twirls his daggers dexterously, etc. Surprise! He's really a wealthy prince, but gets his thrills by bilking merchants out of a few coppers. *yawn*

[Kalak]

Yeah, I can't jive with Balerion's idea, either. It just wasn't shrewd enough for Charlie, too many unknowns. I'm convinced it was someone else.

On another note, is it fairly agreed upon that while Fate was technically acting against Stanley in all of the battles post-attunement & pre-Parson, that it was all so that Parson would get summoned? Then Fate was working for Stanley/Wanda/Parson at that point? So, it was working against him, but in a way that would ultimately benefit him.

So, question is, who is Fate working for (assuming there is only one Fate, and it isn't finicky)? Wanda? Parson? Stanley? Peace on Erf? Sizemore????

[Sieggy]

Fate was setting up the conditions that would make Stanley buy the SPW spell for Wanda to cast. Just because Fate has something in mind for you doesn't mean you're going to like it. Sometimes what Fate has in store for you involves a can of axle grease and a pair of opera length rubber gloves . . .

[Oberon]

Sometimes what Fate has in store for you involves a can of axle grease and a pair of opera length rubber gloves . . .

You must be speaking from personal experience...

[Housellama]

Sometimes what Fate has in store for you involves a can of axle grease and a pair of opera length rubber gloves . . .

You must be speaking from personal experience...

I can still hear that awful snapping sound... It haunts my nightmares

[Oberon]

I can still hear that awful snapping sound... It haunts my nightmares

I'm at the age where this....check....is a part of the annual review. I still remember my first....experience. I thought I was prepared, but you really cannot be. After the Dr. (Dr. Ball, which has a humor all its own) said "You're fine" my response was "WELL, THANK GOD! <skip a beat> Because I'd hate to have to seek a second opinion."

[BLANDCorporatio]

Well ok but was da poo poo eaten?

[effataigus]

And this seems to be exactly how far a forum conversation has to degenerate to provoke a new update. Though I suppose it's possible, if not likely, that ya'll overshot the mark.

[drachefly]

Sometimes what Fate has in store for you involves a can of axle grease and a pair of opera length rubber gloves . . .

You must be speaking from personal experience...

I can still hear that awful snapping sound... It haunts my nightmares

The funny thing is, I thought you meant that it was an *Oh SNAP* snap of unusual quality.

As for the exams, well, jeez. Be a bit more comfortable in your skin and you'll be fine.

[Housellama]

The funny thing is, I thought you meant that it was an *Oh SNAP* snap of unusual quality.

As for the exams, well, jeez. Be a bit more comfortable in your skin and you'll be fine.

It's not so much the social (heh) aspect. It's physically uncomfortable to have someone put something there when you aren't prepared. And O's right, there's really no way you can get prepared for the first one, mentally or physically. Even knowing what's coming, it's still a shock. Even if you are perfectly comfortable in your own skin.

It is, quite literally, a pain in the boop.

You youngins... This is what you have to look forward to in your middle age.

[sleepymancer]

I believe we only have evidence of MK portals being in capital cities so far. I could be outdated on this. Not that I bring up this point to counter your argument in general, I'm just focusing on the "any city" part of it. Although Kreistor, as usual, already pointed out the biggest hole.

Infidel wins a cookie!

I fail to see how ignoring my qualifier "with a MK portal" wins someone a cookie. It's easy to score points when you can change the words around or just ignore them without being called on it. At least he admitted that he was focusing on the "any city" part while ignoring the "with a MK portal" part.

I'll be honest, when I first read that I assumed that Kreistor wasn't giving the cookie for the rules observation, but as a reward for the compliment in Infidel's final sentence (which I've stuck in bold)...

[drachefly]

And O's right, there's really no way you can get prepared for the first one, mentally or physically. Even knowing what's coming, it's still a shock. Even if you are perfectly comfortable in your own skin.

Well, I'm not middle-aged, but I did have such an exam. It was very odd, and somewhat uncomfortable. Not scary.

[Hiai]

Why would any gobwin or hobgobwin rebellion expect to take Wanda out? Wanda was in FAQ with her side until Stanley came along. The rebellion took Saline IV out only because Stanley wasn't there. Obviously, if the rebellion was engineered by anyone, Charlie included, it was specifically done because Stanley was gone at the time. As events later proved, Stanley was a much less efficient ruler than Saline IV was, and only by Wanda pulling boop out of her ass in the form of an uber summoning spell was GK ever saved from falling. Stanley was and always will be a piker at heart, and hadn't the capability to hold on to his side. He has the might, but not the brains. The rebellion, no matter who engineered it, was incredibly effective and did what it was meant to do. It's just that no one ever paid a Predictomancer to tell them about the Ultimate Warlord's arrival.

Also, I'm pretty sure some people pay very good money to get the opportunity to hear that special latex snap. Even if it's only the costume money investment- leather is expensive.

[oslecamo2_temp]

As events later proved, Stanley was a much less efficient ruler than Saline IV was, and only by Wanda pulling boop out of her ass in the form of an uber summoning spell was GK ever saved from falling. Stanley was and always will be a piker at heart, and hadn't the capability to hold on to his side.

Wanda better pull boop out of her ass, because it was her fault Gk got in so much trouble to begin with.

Most people around here seem to forget that it was WANDA WHO FEEDED STANLEY WITH TOOLISM DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR TO BEGIN WITH! GK got the coalition after their ass because they attacked a lot of sides picking a lot of enemies, and it was Wanda the one actually behind that strategy.

"Along the way, I have encouraged his ambition to quest for the other arkentools, knowing that I would I wield one. Eventually."

And from here just to further refresh your rusty memories.
"Of, for these I have wrecked and ruined more than you have. It's not a contest. And for this, it was worthwhile."

So just to leave things clear, Wanda isn't some misunderstood cute necromancer that just wants the best to her side.

Wanda's a complete monster that betrayed her previous kingdom, personally murdered her previous ruler, and left a literal mountain of corpses of enemies and allies on her path so she could get her own arkentool. And then said she didn't regret anything.


You can't put all the blame on Stanley when that kind of person has been his main advisor for titans know how much turns!

[Oberon]

You can't put all the blame on Stanley when that kind of person has been his main advisor for titans know how much turns!

In any reasonable hierarchy, isn't the leader the one who is held responsible for success or failure? Would Bush be any less of a failure if he could just blame Cheney and claim that he wasn't responsible for starting a war with no exit strategy? I think not. The leader is the one who bears the responsibility, regardless of the failures or duplicity of their underlings.

[Kreistor]

You can't put all the blame on Stanley when that kind of person has been his main advisor for titans know how much turns!

In any reasonable hierarchy, isn't the leader the one who is held responsible for success or failure? Would Bush be any less of a failure if he could just blame Cheney and claim that he wasn't responsible for starting a war with no exit strategy? I think not. The leader is the one who bears the responsibility, regardless of the failures or duplicity of their underlings.

Only to a certain extent. The US government produces enough intelligence every single day that if Bush was required to read all of it, it would take 10 years. In all hierarchical structures, the Leader bears overall responsibility, but not sole responsibility. But, ultimately, he reads only what those beneath him decides he should, and they read what their subordinates decide, etc. down the food chain. That three layers below Bush someone stopped a report about someone taking pilot lessons that might have lead to 9/11 being stopped does not mean Bush is responsible for 9/11. he never saw the report, and no amount of Rules could make one person think this report is more important than the other.

And not all things are under his control.

For instance, on 9/11, Bush wanted to go to DC. The Secret Service refused and took him to Louisiana, and then Nevada, far from the danger. We cannot hold Bush responsible for not having the power to ensure he could go to New York that day: it was simply beyond his power.

So, yes, he carries more responsibility, but not all responsibility. Those below him still retain responsibility for the decisions they make for him.

[oslecamo2_temp]

You can't put all the blame on Stanley when that kind of person has been his main advisor for titans know how much turns!

In any reasonable hierarchy, isn't the leader the one who is held responsible for success or failure? Would Bush be any less of a failure if he could just blame Cheney and claim that he wasn't responsible for starting a war with no exit strategy? I think not. The leader is the one who bears the responsibility, regardless of the failures or duplicity of their underlings.

And now you're playing a double standard.

When Wanda feeds Stanley with delusions of grandeur and manipulates him into random attacks, it's aparently all his fault but...

When Wanda sugests the CWL and Stanley acepts and even saves some money doing so, why doesn't Stanley gets full responsability as well? You can't just be supreme leader for the bad things.

In particular because Stanley did have an exit strategy after all!

Or to keep your modern politics example, if some soldiers had managed to kill Bin Landen a week after Bush orders the attacks on the middle east, it would be Bush geting on the newspapers and geting the glory (or most of it), not the soldiers, and certainly not the key officers and advisors between the president and the soldiers.

[drachefly]

That three layers below Bush someone stopped a report about someone taking pilot lessons that might have lead to 9/11 being stopped does not mean Bush is responsible for 9/11.

On the other hand, suspending the frequent security briefings, demoting/dismissing the people who were concerned with terrorism and generally acting as if it wasn't a concern… well. Let's just say that Stanley could have chosen a better main advisor.

[Kreistor]

That three layers below Bush someone stopped a report about someone taking pilot lessons that might have lead to 9/11 being stopped does not mean Bush is responsible for 9/11.

On the other hand, suspending the frequent security briefings, demoting/dismissing the people who were concerned with terrorism and generally acting as if it wasn't a concern… well. Let's just say that Stanley could have chosen a better main advisor.

And none of that could change the fundamental fact that the report died many layers below, in the FBI. They could have had security briefings 24/7, and it still wouldn't have mattered one little bit. It was one report, with no substantiation from other sources, no evidence the plan would happen on US soil (rather than Africa or the Middle East, where Muslims had hijacked before), no indication that anyone was planning an Op on US soil... no, nothing anyone did at the Executive level could have detected and stopped 9/11.

[Sieggy]

Except that a few weeks before the WTC attacks, Bush had been briefed by the NSC that bin Laden was determined to attack the US (again, going after the same targets he had before), and that intel indicated a high probability of using aircraft to do so. He blew off the report, telling the briefers 'Well, now you've covered your asses', and ignored it.

I think that it was the guilt and shame he felt in realizing down deep inside that he HAD been warned and ignored it that caused him to overreact in as extreme a manner as he did. Of course, he was enabled in this by advisers who saw a golden opportunity to remake the middle east in a manner more to their liking and pushed him along that fateful path.