Summer Updates - 014

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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby moose o death » Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:29 am

nice points, once again we've completely wandered off the updates though.

still i don't think charlie would know right now. we also don't know how useful the decrypted are for info. ansom mentioned he remembered most things, but it's plausible his original city information may be amongst the stuff lost to his death. if that were the case the archons would probably be in the same situation. remember the events that lead them there. but not specific's of their previous side.

i was also thinking maybe they are still loyal to their old sides which would be a pretty hefty spanner in the gearbox, a huge army that has limted attack options wouldn't be much use. bt they could easily get around that by splitting main army by tribes and sending one after each city if they were shared amongst the coalition. we don't know much about erfworld but it seems only one side could occupy a city. an alliance doesn't appear like it can.

last thought before i give up until the next update, why didn't stanley occupy faq's 3 cities? if he DID conquer them (and i still doubt he did) then why didn't he claim them as well? i think there's more to it than wanda revealed. jack has no particular reason to be more loyal to stanley than jillian yet he is. transylvito hasn't found faq, and jillians reasoning makes no sense if the foolamancer was one of their targets at the pass. so 3 cities are"conquered" and awaiting an overlord someplace within 4-6 turns of transylvito's capital. i call BS. FAQ is hiding something...apart from themselves. [speculative] maybe they cut a deal with stanley, leave us be, the following casters will be yours, and they took said oppurtunity to cut jillian loose. maybe disbanding an heir createse a barbarian?[/speculative]
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby insanenoodlyguy » Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:24 am

If we are speculating, I'd remind everyone that it was previously stated that there'd be some narrative distance. I don't think we are going to see parson conquering then see some snag. Rather, I think we are going to see some time later, where as theorized, they at least have their old territories back, if not even moreso. They will definitly be a threat.

We won't then see a spanner in the works. rather, the story will be about the spanner in the works.

The lookamancers and the findamancers will no doubt have spread (or had spread for them) the fact that their "Perfect Warlord" spell packs the serious punch.

We have been introduced to people who have actually fought parson before.

What do you think happens when a desperate (or at least concerned) city uses the spell and asks for "The perfect warriors/warlords/one who has beaten lord hamster?" I think the story is going to be about the one/ones that spell PLOTs into Erfworld next.

Also, it makes for a new look at erfworld itself. We've seen the dungeon master and his rules. Now lets see what the PC's look like. Quests! Upkeep! Item get! CUTE THINGS THAT YOU LAUGH AT BUT WILL KILL YOU.

Fingers crossed.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby moose o death » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:56 am

i'm not so sure about narrative distance. everything seems to be pointing at your more typical lots of words little progress webcomic setup. narratve distance is a years worth of material to a webcomic. look at goblins for an example i think that gate has taken 2-3months to open, our time, and about an hour goblins time.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby HandofShadows » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:35 am

Rosa Vernal wrote:
Anton Gaist wrote:their lack of leadership.... That's GK's main weakness now, the lack of leadership. Sure, Ansom's there, but that's just one warlord


You sure on that? We don't know the composition of the forces. It's possible that they've got some casters and warlords out of the giant Decrypted force.

Plus, given that Stanley has promoted people to warlord, he can just follow Ansom/Parson's advice on who to designate Warlords.


I think when Lack of leadership was mentioned it was not a lack of warloeds, but the Overlord (Stanley the Tool Fool) that's the problem. However good G's warlords are, they have a boss who is an idiot much of the time. In real life situation like this the miltary leadership spends way to much time doing sill/stupid things to keep the boss happy instead of going and winning battles.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Kreistor » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:33 am

The lookamancers and the findamancers will no doubt have spread (or had spread for them) the fact that their "Perfect Warlord" spell packs the serious punch.


Or... they created it with Parson in mind (knowing he or someone was like him by predictamancy) and are in league with the Hippiemancers to break the world and end the war, so you'll never see another Summoning spell ever. I don't like the assumption that this spell was created purely for profit. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if someday we learn that it really cost a whole lot more, and the MK lost big on its sale price, in order to just get the right person to cast it at the right time for the wrong reason.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby moose o death » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:46 am

i'm willing to say that's the likely circumstance. not to mention the sums involved only seem trivial from GK's perspective. if defending a city against tv is likley to run expenses above 40,000, thus making paying protection more sensible. then finding 350,000 and an appropriately skilled caster, or 500,000 and a MK caster is possible stretching the budget for sides NOT sitting on top of so many gemstones. the tunnel system was pretty extensive so sizemore had harvested a fair bit in all likelihood. GK may have just been really wealthy and thus ansom's main driving force to capture it. he was wiling to throw loads of troops at something based on the principal of it. that's not very likely all things considered.

GK was probably already a desirable target for jetstone, the regicide may have been their opening to get to the treasury.

the perfect warlord spell is possibly a one off thing that the magic kingdom cooked up for a secondary purpose. janis certainly seems like she knows more.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Maldeus » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:09 pm

Throwing loads of troops at a persistent threat to your existence in order to finish him off once and for all and never again have to worry about being menaced by him? Sounds like a good deal to me. I always finish off an enemy faction after I've seized all their important territories in a war game, even if the individual city/base isn't worth the troops needed to seize it.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby DevilDan » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:52 pm

Maldeus wrote:Throwing loads of troops at a persistent threat to your existence in order to finish him off once and for all and never again have to worry about being menaced by him? Sounds like a good deal to me. I always finish off an enemy faction after I've seized all their important territories in a war game, even if the individual city/base isn't worth the troops needed to seize it.

Just as the coalition did during the first Gulf War?

In real politics and planning as in our everyday life, many people find it difficult to pay (or suffer) more in the short term if its the wisest course of action in the long term.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Maldeus » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:18 am

That doesn't mean Ansom and the Royal Crown Coalition wouldn't do it. Keep in mind that in the Gulf War, Saddam Hussein was never a threat to the allied force that defeated him. They were just there to help out Kuwait. If Kuwait was fighting that war with their own forces (meaning, if they had the forces to fight it) they probably would've gone further to ensure the war wouldn't repeat itself.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Binty » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:25 am

DevilDan wrote:Just as the coalition did during the first Gulf War?

In real politics and planning as in our everyday life, many people find it difficult to pay (or suffer) more in the short term if its the wisest course of action in the long term.


Not so sure about your example here...
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Maldeus » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:52 am

Let's not bring real world politics into this. It's irrelevant because there's no indication that the Royal Crown Coalition wouldn't bite the bullet and take out Stanley even if the individual battle wouldn't be worth it, especially considering that Stanley will be striking back in a matter of Turns, not a matter of years.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby DevilDan » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:11 am

Maldeus wrote:Let's not bring real world politics into this. It's irrelevant because there's no indication that the Royal Crown Coalition wouldn't bite the bullet and take out Stanley even if the individual battle wouldn't be worth it, especially considering that Stanley will be striking back in a matter of Turns, not a matter of years.

There are plenty of reasons to suppose that the nations that joined forces to form the former RCC will be at least somewhat reticent to commit further forces and are unlikely to do so in short order. Don't forget that Stanley not only survived what should have been a rout but destroyed the RCC in a single trap action, a dirtamancy superweapon across multiple hexes. Parson has already started breaking Erf, and that will give Erf rulers pause.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Joe22c. » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:13 am

wow, she's got a really well toned ass
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby moose o death » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:38 am

maldeus, your suggesting genocide is perfectly acceptable to stop one man who seems to be about as dangerous as a toddler. in erfworld that's what your doing.

these are real, albeit tiny/cutesy, people. you don't commit thousands of troops to killing one man. you send an assassin. you commit thousands of troops to killing an army of thousands of troops. everything ansom did was suspect.

even vinny had reservations as to why ansom and jetstone were getting involved.

but not only did they get involved..they led the push. they break off alliances with allies. heck ansom even refused outside help from stronger warlords in the tunnels because he wanted jetstone forces to take the tunnels. keep in mind the tunnels were always his planned entry. with the walls acting as a feint. when gobwin knob fell, ansom wanted the victory for jetstone. alliance or not. no matter who knew it before GK used to have 500,000 schmukers in the treasury, now it has millions (or at least soonish it will at any rate. it's a rich side and crushing it and claiming the treasury would have been the real reason jetstone showed up. they probably bankrolled the other cities, and gave tem to other alliance members, just to get GK's purse.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby DevilDan » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:51 am

I like the idea of a profit motive behind the RCC--it certainly rings more true than some of the other explanations. But if GK was such a prize, why would Vinny even question Ansom and Jetstone's participation? That a smart, worldly character such as Vinny wonders about Ansom's motivation suggests that he has reason to believe that it won't be such a profitable venture for Jetstone even if things go to plan.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby moose o death » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:03 am

to be honest vinny seemed smarter than ansom through most of the story. if it weren't for vinny ansom would've run into one of parson's three(?) traps. but vinny was clearly unsure of jetstones true motives which is why he asked. now the immediate danger is dealt with i see alot more politics happening in story two. the charlie/stanley angle, the wanda/jack/jillian relationship. the true happenings of faq. wanda's story sounds like half truths. and i'm hesitant to believe stanley conquered faq at all.

so mnay arcs to explore, and that's without new chracters or story progression
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby LordDarksea » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:13 am

moose o death wrote:i'm not so sure about narrative distance. everything seems to be pointing at your more typical lots of words little progress webcomic setup. narratve distance is a years worth of material to a webcomic. look at goblins for an example i think that gate has taken 2-3months to open, our time, and about an hour goblins time.



Well, this is the second of two epilogues. It's sort of meant to focus on the details of the aftershocks of the comic. I think by the time this one is through the narrative distance might be longer than you think.

As to your other point, hurrah for the gate but... I've been waiting months to know what happens with Saves a Fox and with Dies. months i tell you :D
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby DevilDan » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:42 am

LordDarksea wrote:Well, this is the second of two epilogues. It's sort of meant to focus on the details of the aftershocks of the comic. I think by the time this one is through the narrative distance might be longer than you think.


Ummm... about "Narrative Distance."I do not think it means what you think it means."

LordDarksea wrote:As to your other point, hurrah for the gate but... I've been waiting months to know what happens with Saves a Fox and with Dies. months i tell you :D


Saves a Fox eventually saves a fox (or something like a fox) and Dies eventually Dies. Horribly. (Maybe he becomes an inept hairdresser with poor spelling.)
Last edited by DevilDan on Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Cmdr I. Heartly Noah » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:48 pm

she already saved a fox... or, well its tail... as a souvenir!
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Re: Summer Updates - 014

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:58 pm

DevilDan wrote:I like the idea of a profit motive behind the RCC--it certainly rings more true than some of the other explanations. But if GK was such a prize, why would Vinny even question Ansom and Jetstone's participation? That a smart, worldly character such as Vinny wonders about Ansom's motivation suggests that he has reason to believe that it won't be such a profitable venture for Jetstone even if things go to plan.


I don't think profit was the main motive. As Vinnie guessed, they didn't liked that Stanley wasn't royal. But the campaign would have had some additional perks: they would have got rid of an aspiring new nation (at least it was with Saline as King and Stanley as chief warlord), they could expand and they could make themselves the hegemony power in this region as leader of the coalition. The capital with the treasure was probably only the cherry on the cake to even the cost of the war.
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