Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby raphfrk » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:49 pm

Another question is why would the overlord be furious that a caster popped, since they are generally much more valuable than standard warlords.

Maybe casters take longer to actually become powerful, and a level 1 warlord is better in a fight than a level 1 caster.

Also, she got an even larger negative response to being a croakamancer. They really don't seem to be popular caster types. I guess if your army is losing, then most of the targets of a croakamancer would be friendlies.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Glome » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:16 pm

raphfrk wrote:Another question is why would the overlord be furious that a caster popped, since they are generally much more valuable than standard warlords.

Maybe casters take longer to actually become powerful, and a level 1 warlord is better in a fight than a level 1 caster.


I was going to ask the same question. It seems unlikely that they would take that long to become powerful, since we haven't really even seen any weak casters so far, even ones that normally stay in the back like Sizemore and Cubbins have been shown to do some serious damage. Seems like the overlord has an irrational bias against casters since all the evidence points to her being a more valuable addition then a level 1 warlord would likely be.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby raphfrk » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:33 pm

Zeku wrote:"One day in the country of zero, someone paid a price."

This was the creation of Wanda. What does it mean?


I think that one was the creation of Erfworld itself. In the beginning, there was nothing, then the "Grandiocosmic string" was formed. Presumably, in the end, everything will return to all zeros.

Alternatively, it was the Titans who paid the price required for Erfworld to exist. Maybe the world of all zero's is a blank white page before art is added or before any writing has been entered.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Dr Pepper » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:39 pm

joosy wrote:Hmm.. I have always wondered about the concept of 'family' in a world without pregnancy/dna/natural death (as far as we know). I had always assumed it was a byproduct of popping a Royal unit but now we have such a scenario in a side headed by an Overlord. Hmm again.

Now I wonder are all popped (not promoted) warlords considered brothers or just royal ones? I also assumed that royalty was just another stat that would lengthen the time of production, increase upkeep, but have a unit that levels faster and has better stats. That would mean there would be non-royal Warlords and even non-royal casters. I noticed that no one referes to Maggie or Sizemore as Lord or Lady so I (once more) assumed they were not royal.

My guess? Sides run by Overlords can pop units with the 'royal 'stat.


I postulated some time ago that a commoner Side that lasts long enough will gain the option to buy a promotion to noble. Likewise noble Sides eventual can buy themselves up to royal.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby raphfrk » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:56 pm

Dr Pepper wrote:I postulated some time ago that a commoner Side that lasts long enough will gain the option to buy a promotion to noble. Likewise noble Sides eventual can buy themselves up to royal.


This would also allow Erfworld to have started like civilisation, with a few warlords roaming around. Eventually, some of them would find city sites and found cities, which would eventually become Royal sides.

Another option is that when a new overlord takes over, there is a chance that they will be promoted to Noble and then to Royal. A site with a line of rulers that they can trace back very far would be a Royal side. That is how it happens in RL too, the more generations that a line has been in existence, the higher the prestige for that monarchy.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby querzis » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:30 pm

raphfrk wrote:Another question is why would the overlord be furious that a caster popped, since they are generally much more valuable than standard warlords.


That depends, firstly maybe they dont Pop with their juice full, they could even be empty at first making them quite useless in this situation where their side will fall in a few turn. Secondly, we know that Caster have a huge upkeep so maybe they quite simply cannot afford another caster right now and will have to conquer another city fast to pay her upkeep. Or maybe Caster are indeed useless at low-level, after all, we never saw a level 1 caster until now. Sure, Sizemore never fought before Parson came in but I really dont think that matter at all. After all, he made lots of Golems and those were actually brought into battle which is supposed to be his job. I very highly doubt casters have to fight or kill anything to level up, otherwise caster like Mathamancer or Moneymancer who arent even supposed to fight anything would be useless. Caster arent warlords after all, while I'm sure they get XP from killing stuff, I'm also quite sure they get XP simply from, you know, casting stuff.

Also, as to why his smile faded when she said she was a croakamancer, I really dont think it has anything to do with how usefull they are compared to other caster, its probably just out of a general hatred/fear of undead which most people in Erfworld (or in the real world for that matter) seems to have for obvious reasons.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Kreistor » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:57 pm

Dr Pepper wrote:I postulated some time ago that a commoner Side that lasts long enough will gain the option to buy a promotion to noble. Likewise noble Sides eventual can buy themselves up to royal.


Sorry, but no.

Klog 9 wrote:Royals claim to trace their lineage back to days of Titans.


If a Side could promote itself to Royal, that statement couldn't be made, and the obsession with ending non-Royal Sides would be unnecessary since any Side could become Royal.

I also started looking into that number sequence. It isn't a log, ln, square or cube sequence.

But you know... I recognize it. I know I've seen it before. It may be from a novel.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby drachefly » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:16 pm

Glome wrote:It seems unlikely that they would take that long to become powerful, since we haven't really even seen any weak casters so far, even ones that normally stay in the back like Sizemore and Cubbins have been shown to do some serious damage. Seems like the overlord has an irrational bias against casters since all the evidence points to her being a more valuable addition then a level 1 warlord would likely be.


Ther's another theory that explains that one - each side has a maximum number of casters based in some nontrivial way on its size and advancement and even temperament. If one dies or the limit rises, another caster can pop. That explains Holly Shortcake's prompt replacement, and the general absence of low-level casters.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby thaco4 » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:27 pm

[quote=Wanda]“I’ve never expected...a thing,”[/quote]
Never expected that out of Wanda's mouth. What with her whole god complex now.

And first tin foil hat of book 0.
[equip=/tinfoil_hat-1/book0/erfworld]
Based on the current setting and what we know about Croakmancers I have come to the following conclusion.
A. Goodminton's forces are the least on the map
1. Using a necromancer strategy suggests that Goodminton should have their allies attack first hold back until the greater whole of the enemy and allies are dead. (mass raise)
then make sure own forces stay greater than the allied whole. Meaning let their allies take most of the hits and doing point attacks against the enemy stacks.
2. Uncroaked leadership - book 1 showed us that does work they take direct orders. Use previously allied and enemy uncroaked leadership to target enemy leadership and hit weak
stacks. Have allied units attack the strong stacks, heavy stacks, and special stacks. Pushing into main leadership.
3. Once main leadership is reached push uncroaked enemy units into allied units and hit main stack with allied uncroaked.

Conclusion-Goodminton doesn't have to lose a live unit. And Goodminton comes out the victor.
[unequip=/tinfoil_hat-1/book0/erfworld]

I think I found the winning strategy for Goodminton using Wanda to her fullest extent. This would also give Wanda the rep for winning unimaginable situations (of course there has to be tragedy so...)
[equip=/tinfoil_hat-2/book0/erfworld]
Some how Overlord Firebaugh and Atomic go out in a blaze of glory.

sad day :.(
Goodminton ends as side
Allied units pick up Wanda.
[unequip=/tinfoil_hat-2/book0/erfworld]

:roll: :roll: :ugeek: :shock: :D

Now feel free to tear them apart. (but I think I win)
Last edited by thaco4 on Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:42 pm

From "What's Special About This Number?":

0 is the additive identity.
1 is the multiplicative identity.
5 is the number of Platonic solids.
48 is the smallest number with 10 divisors.
112 is the side of the smallest square that can be tiled with distinct integer-sided squares.
6379 is a value of n for which |cos(n)| is smaller than any previous integer.

Add them up and you get 6545, which is a tetrahedral number. A Tetrahedron is a Platonic Solid.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Dr Pepper » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:06 pm

MarbitChow wrote:From "What's Special About This Number?":

0 is the additive identity.
1 is the multiplicative identity.
5 is the number of Platonic solids.
48 is the smallest number with 10 divisors.
112 is the side of the smallest square that can be tiled with distinct integer-sided squares.
6379 is a value of n for which |cos(n)| is smaller than any previous integer.

Add them up and you get 6545, which is a tetrahedral number. A Tetrahedron is a Platonic Solid.


Yikes. I think Erfworld just experienced a midflight collision with XKCD!

Not that that's a bad thing.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Kreistor » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:17 pm

MarbitChow wrote:From "What's Special About This Number?":

0 is the additive identity.
1 is the multiplicative identity.
5 is the number of Platonic solids.
48 is the smallest number with 10 divisors.
112 is the side of the smallest square that can be tiled with distinct integer-sided squares.
6379 is a value of n for which |cos(n)| is smaller than any previous integer.

Add them up and you get 6545, which is a tetrahedral number. A Tetrahedron is a Platonic Solid.


No consistency there. You could randomly pick a half dozen numbers and find something special about them.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby The.Healing.Mage » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:30 pm

raphfrk wrote:Maybe casters take longer to actually become powerful, and a level 1 warlord is better in a fight than a level 1 caster.


Does Erfworld have Linear Fighters (Warlords)/Quadratic Wizards (Casters) going on?

raphfrk wrote:Also, she got an even larger negative response to being a croakamancer. They really don't seem to be popular caster types. I guess if your army is losing, then most of the targets of a croakamancer would be friendlies.


Wanda tends to get into these defensive-zombie situations, doesn't she?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby raphfrk » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:25 pm

The.Healing.Mage wrote:
raphfrk wrote:Maybe casters take longer to actually become powerful, and a level 1 warlord is better in a fight than a level 1 caster.


Does Erfworld have Linear Fighters (Warlords)/Quadratic Wizards (Casters) going on?


Yeah, that is what I was thinking. If they can level her up, then she would be much more valuable, but a caster who will be valuable in 100+ turns is useless if you have less than 10.

Actually, maybe they give her to another side as part of the peace deal. That could explain some of her attitude, one of her earliest memories was being sold.

Kreistor wrote:If a Side could promote itself to Royal, that statement couldn't be made, and the obsession with ending non-Royal Sides would be unnecessary since any Side could become Royal.


If the process happened slowly over time, then it would still work. If you needed a line that was 100,000 turns long and at least 20 Rulers, then for all practical purposes, Royal sides would all have existed for as long as the living memory of any unit.

It would be good PR for them to claim that they existed forever.

MarbitChow wrote:From "What's Special About This Number?":

0 is the additive identity.
1 is the multiplicative identity.
5 is the number of Platonic solids.
48 is the smallest number with 10 divisors.
112 is the side of the smallest square that can be tiled with distinct integer-sided squares.
6379 is a value of n for which |cos(n)| is smaller than any previous integer.

Add them up and you get 6545, which is a tetrahedral number. A Tetrahedron is a Platonic Solid.



In fairness, since they give a reason why every possible number is special, that isn't quite as impressive :).
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby drachefly » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:51 pm

raphfrk wrote:In fairness, since they give a reason why every possible number is special, that isn't quite as impressive :).


By the 6000 range, they're only doing 2/5 of the numbers...
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:54 pm

Kreistor wrote:No consistency there. You could randomly pick a half dozen numbers and find something special about them.

raphfrk wrote:In fairness, since they give a reason why every possible number is special, that isn't quite as impressive :).

I know. I'm pretty sure they're just arbitrary numbers picked to represent a rapidly-increasing quantity. I just figured it might be fun to try to create a Lost-like conspiracy theory, but I couldn't come up with a good one at work. Damn clients and their constant demands for working software... :D
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Drakonite » Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:15 pm

I am pretty sure that the reason Atom is so, well, worried about Wanda being a Croackamancer is what it means in the big picture.

Remember in the Summer updates when Jillian wanted a caster, yet all she kept getting were Warlords? We were told that you pop what you need, not so much what you want; and Jillian at that time needed warlords. If Goodminton wanted a warlord and instead got a Croackamancer... well it probably means that a lot of units are going to die, very very soon.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Matthew Wildstar » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:53 pm

For what it's worth, all of the numbers appear in a table of common logarithms.

So... logarithmic progression?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Morthe » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:52 am

0, 1, 5, 48, 112, 6379 also comprises of all numerals: 0 1 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

or with a connection to genesis from nothing to something...
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:25 am

So Wanda is born under a sign, as it were.

And numbers, numbers ... Well, rather than look for special properties of the individual numbers (ALL numbers have "peculiar" properties), how about looking in something like an encyclopedia of integer sequences.

(I did. No luck in the one I linked to).

And NO, the sequence is not logarithmic (it would increase by smaller and smaller amounts) nor exponential (112 breaks the pattern; 48/5 >> 112/48, 6379/112 >> 112/48). It could be combinatorial (like this one), but of what I do not know. Any other guess is welcome.

I do not wish to pursue numerology for more than a few minutes, but if I were to give a hunch, badminton may be a place to look for connections, rather than math.
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