Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Kaed » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:29 am

buncha people wrote:Math gibberish and wild postulation


Come on, do you guys have to overanalyze every single little thing? They may very well just be random numbers Rob pulled out of his Titan's Arse, or maybe he mashed the numpad and put some spaces and commas in. Every single detail in this comic does not have deep relevance, and even if it is a reference to something, that too is irrelevant - Bun-bun was in the last page of Part 2, but he's certainly not going to be a recurring character. Give it a rest and stop reaching for the tin foil hats every update. =/ Seriously, this junk fills up more of every thread than anything else. Can't we talk about reasonable, logical things for a change?

For instance, it seems that units are popped with innate knowledge of their surroundings and what they mean, but don't begin thinking about it until they see it. Wanda began identifying objects in the room as soon as she began examining it, but there was no reason for her to be able to do so. Are all Erfworld units possessed of locked away knowledge regarding their world that only occurs to them when they are 'reminded' it for the first time? Or are the Titans providing new units with a sort of data feed to ease their entry into their new world?

The difference would probably be that in the latter case, such instant knowledge would apply only to aspects of the unit's side. If, several dozen turns down the line, they encounter another side's units in battle, would they know instantly what they are at a glance? Or would they actually have to learn as we do in this world?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Goshen » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:53 pm

Kaed wrote:
buncha people wrote:Math gibberish and wild postulation

Come on, do you guys have to overanalyze every single little thing?

Yes. ;-) Anything worth doing, is worth OVER-doing. TWICE!

AND Again! And.................again..........
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby SteveMB » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:51 pm

drachefly wrote:
raphfrk wrote:In fairness, since they give a reason why every possible number is special, that isn't quite as impressive :).


By the 6000 range, they're only doing 2/5 of the numbers...


What's the smallest number that isn't in any way special?
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Raza » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:52 pm

Read this four times so far.

Still good stuff.

SteveMB wrote:What's the smallest number that isn't in any way special?

Are you trying to break innocent web-crawling AIs?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Saladman » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:04 pm

On the Overlord/royal/family topic, it's possible Overlord Firebaugh is Royal and therefore a King, but informal or practical about it, something like Vinny was, so he chooses to go by another form of address. Until we get more data I think that's the most parsimonious explanation given the only families we've seen have been royal.

Casters traditionally aren't thrown into the front lines of combat, so surprise and mild disappointment at having one pop at that moment, and when the side already has two casters, is to be expected.

And we've seen that units do have a moral sense, that Jetstone considers Uncroaked to be an abomination, and units using "daemon" as a pejorative when it's also a unit type. Imagine Jetstone popping a Croakamancer for instance; again, there's no great surprise in them receiving a chilly welcome.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:46 pm

SteveMB wrote:What's the smallest number that isn't in any way special?

391, according to the original website I linked to, although 42 grew up thinking it wasn't special until Douglas Adams came along.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Glome » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:09 pm

Saladman wrote:On the Overlord/royal/family topic, it's possible Overlord Firebaugh is

Casters traditionally aren't thrown into the front lines of combat, so surprise and mild disappointment at having one pop at that moment, and when the side already has two casters, is to be expected.


That reasoning can't apply to croakamancers though. Unlike most other caster types, they only seem to have a wartime function, that is uncroaking the dead, and people only die in battle in this world. A croakamancer left in the capital is all but useless.

Which is why it would have been odd had Wanda been popped in Faq instead of here. A bubble kingdom has no real need of a wartime caster like Wanda, and apparently casters are popped based partly on need in Erfworld. And since Faq is bubble kingdom, logically they can't be part of this battle. At some point Jillian will have to come along as a mercenary and capture Wanda for her(self) kingdom.

Also, if croakamancers are always close to battle so they can revive the croaked, they probably have a much lower life expectancy than most other casters. This might partly explain Wanda's abiding belief in Fate, as she may reason she should have been dead a dozen times over if another hand wasn't at work.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Saladman » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:25 pm

Glome wrote:
Saladman wrote:On the Overlord/royal/family topic, it's possible Overlord Firebaugh is

Casters traditionally aren't thrown into the front lines of combat, so surprise and mild disappointment at having one pop at that moment, and when the side already has two casters, is to be expected.


That reasoning can't apply to croakamancers though. Unlike most other caster types, they only seem to have a wartime function, that is uncroaking the dead, and people only die in battle in this world. A croakamancer left in the capital is all but useless.


Sure... but Tommy noticed she was a caster then had to ask her what kind of caster she was, and after he'd done so the bigger problem of telling Father they had a Croakamancer took over. So I'm not sure what the objection is, and I'm not the only one to pick up on the surprise at a caster.

I'll note in passing that in battles on your turn and close to your capitol you could send a croakamancer out on a mount if you won to animate the dead, keeping her safe at the cost of passing on the tactical edge of immediate animation, but that's a special case and I agree Croakamancers need to be fielded. It's been pointed out that alone probably explains why Wanda is Chief Caster/highest level for Gobwin Knob, and I imagine it played a role in her reaching Master Class as well.

Glome wrote:Which is why it would have been odd had Wanda been popped in Faq instead of here. A bubble kingdom has no real need of a wartime caster like Wanda, and apparently casters are popped based partly on need in Erfworld. And since Faq is bubble kingdom, logically they can't be part of this battle. At some point Jillian will have to come along as a mercenary and capture Wanda for her(self) kingdom.

Also, if croakamancers are always close to battle so they can revive the croaked, they probably have a much lower life expectancy than most other casters. This might partly explain Wanda's abiding belief in Fate, as she may reason she should have been dead a dozen times over if another hand wasn't at work.


I like these points better. Especially about Faq, that's a much more likely vector than some other ideas posted.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Glome » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:52 pm

Another thing I just thought of. If Jillian was popped by Banhammer because Faq was predicted to fall, and Jillian captures Wanda who is responsible for the fall of Faq, Banhammer just created a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby happyturtle » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:54 pm

Zero is a balance, an equilibrium. Zero is a flat country, neither far away nor near. You can travel there any time, at the cost of your life. And perhaps, if someone were to pay the price to the exact number, you could even return again.


A hint about decryption! Where is the price coming from? Is this why Wanda is such an expensive unit?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby wrecan » Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:24 pm

I would be surprised to find out that Goodminton is not located in the Minty Mountains
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby DoctorJest » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:00 pm

sleepymancer wrote:Still, I reckon the mechanics here strongly imply that had he been a king then she would have been a royal caster. What do you reckon?


I reckon that's a pretty good example of the Begging The Question Logical Fallacy.

"If her Father had been a duck, she would have been a duck caster, so obviously ducks can pop casters!"

The ability for a non-royal side to pop casters "related" to their non-royal ruler answers nothing if royal sides can pop casters who are also royals.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby raphfrk » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:22 pm

happyturtle wrote:
Zero is a balance, an equilibrium. Zero is a flat country, neither far away nor near. You can travel there any time, at the cost of your life. And perhaps, if someone were to pay the price to the exact number, you could even return again.


A hint about decryption! Where is the price coming from? Is this why Wanda is such an expensive unit?


Also, decrypted don't have to pay upkeep, is that because they have already been paid for exactly :).

Maybe the price for decrypted units is that they can be turned, en mass.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby depricated » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:21 pm

Zero being my favorite number, I took particular delight in the first half of this page :D
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby SteveMB » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:47 pm

Raza wrote:Are you trying to break innocent web-crawling AIs?

If I wanted to break inncoent web-crawling AIs, I'd ask whether the smallest number that isn't in any way special is greater than or less than the least integer not nameable in fewer than nineteen syllables. :P

Back on topic, I wonder whether there are some Faq mercenaries in the attacking forces (the obvious explanation for how Wanda would end up there).
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Akkristor » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:01 pm

DoctorJest wrote:
sleepymancer wrote:Still, I reckon the mechanics here strongly imply that had he been a king then she would have been a royal caster. What do you reckon?


I reckon that's a pretty good example of the Begging The Question Logical Fallacy.

"If her Father had been a duck, she would have been a duck caster, so obviously ducks can pop casters!"

The ability for a non-royal side to pop casters "related" to their non-royal ruler answers nothing if royal sides can pop casters who are also royals.


I think it's more of "Royal sides have the option of popping units as Royal, Noble, or normal, Noble sides as Noble or normal, and Overlord-led sides as just normal units".

Remember when Ceaser got word that Don ordered a "Royal Heir" to be popped? If all units popped by Royal sides were Royal, then why specify? Also, Stanley was a non-royal Stabber, popped under a Royal King.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Saladman » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:20 pm

This may help.

Tribal affiliation seems pointless, like a cultural thing I think. But royalty is different. Royal and noble units have slightly stronger stats, and level faster. Cities ruled by royals pop nobles (and more royals). Royal empires split off sometimes into new sides. Royals claim to trace their lineage back to days of Titans.


http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F079a.jpg
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby Saladman » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:47 pm

Akkristor wrote:I think it's more of "Royal sides have the option of popping units as Royal, Noble, or normal, Noble sides as Noble or normal, and Overlord-led sides as just normal units".

Remember when Ceaser got word that Don ordered a "Royal Heir" to be popped? If all units popped by Royal sides were Royal, then why specify? Also, Stanley was a non-royal Stabber, popped under a Royal King.


Too complicated, and unsupported in the comic. My strong impression has been that Royal sides pop Royal warlords in their capitols, and Noble warlords in their non-Capitol cities. I realize that's not spelled out in the link above, but that was early days still in Parson figuring things out under a deadline, and it's compatible with every unit's starting city I can think of - Vinnie and Lady Artemis for example, versus every heir we know who's starting site was mentioned.

Stanley popped as common infantry and was promoted to Warlord. In fact the whole question around royal casters turns on whether it's non-warlords or just non-commanders. Common infantry need not apply.

The whole deal with the major plot points of Tramennis and of Faq's taking extra turns to pop an Heir, is there's a choice between a non-Heir Royal and a Royal Heir. Heir/non-heir is it's own toggle switch separate for royals, not a royal/noble/common thing.

...

Wanda being Tommie's "sister" tells me the royal caster question is settled in the affirmative, if Slately thinking of a non-Royal caster weren't enough. Though in their current circumstances I can't imagine they took the extra time to pop Wanda as an heir, it seems like an unsupported leap to say Royal Heirs can't also pop as casters, or casters can't be promoted.

"My sister, the caster. How bizarre!" does imply it's a rare occurrence though. I don't know if it's especially rare, as in weighted against for royal commanders, or if sides just pop so many warlords compared to casters that's how it works out.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby gameboy1234 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:54 pm

Lamech wrote:Also note: When Ansom was talking to Parson he specifically called out the title of "Lord" as just being made up IIRC. This would mean that Lord and presumably its female equivilant "Lady" are in fact noble titles and therefore we ahve a noble caster. (Which would strangely fit the world view of old-Ansom for Wanda being an okay ruler.) Also if Wanda makes an okay ruler, and as Ossomer just showed the decrypted are NOT her puppets I see a wonderful friendship forming.



Just thought I'd point out that one of the first characters we meet is Lord Manpower the Temporary, on Stanley's side. Could be a left over from Saline IV, but I kind of doubt it. After Ossomer, I can't see any royalty serving any side but their own.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) - Episode 001

Postby KiltedNinja » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:45 am

For the numerologist-types who are trying to investigate these numbers, if you google the string "0,1,5,48,112,6379" one of the first few results contains the text "8150 1 biological_process 7610 1,0 behavior 30534 1,0,0 adult ..."

I have no idea what the relevance is, I just thought it was amusing :D
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