Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

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Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby balder » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:52 am

New One is up.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby gavinfoxx » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:03 am

Wow. And the characters see the dice rolled for them! Awesome!
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby Sixty » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:15 am

Wonder if seeing Parson play a tabletop game involving dice would stir up any memories for her.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby Whispri » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:58 am

What a nice spot of reconquering that girl's done. :)

Still two enemy sides unnamed...

Sixty wrote:Wonder if seeing Parson play a tabletop game involving dice would stir up any memories for her.

Odds on Clay roping her into gaming?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby Saladman » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:20 am

Clay was shaking his head. “No, no...I think it’s the opposite.” He smiled, as someone who was speaking on a topic of great familiarity. “The dice describe the world. They don’t determine it. A Mathamancer can tell you how many dice will be rolled, how many points’ll be lost when you’re wounded. He’ll tell you what’ll probably happen, and possibly happen, and what can’t happen. But your choices still make it happen.”


This, if correct (I assume it is, for a caster speaking about his discipline), answers a pretty fundamental question about Erfworld. Battle plans, tactical decisions, personality, and judgement do really matter, to the extent of determining outcomes. I have an idea that's been discussed on the board before, though I don't recall when. I happen to like this interpretation more than choice and strategy just being an illusory overlay on a wargame engine, but the other was more plausible until now.


Whispri wrote:
Sixty wrote:Wonder if seeing Parson play a tabletop game involving dice would stir up any memories for her.

Odds on Clay roping her into gaming?


Signamancy (hot girl, pale figure-painting guy in stained clothes living in a basement) says odds approach zero.
Last edited by Saladman on Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby OneHugeTuck » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:21 am

1. Can a Croakamancer ressurect a bad roll.....?


2. All hail Inner Peace and the update schedule!
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby OneHugeTuck » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:29 am

Hmm. So she's currently level 3 (novice class). I wonder if there's a tiered system, meaning she gets to level X, graduates from novice level to adept(?) level 1, then later after leveling up moves on to Master class level 1.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby Whispri » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:29 am

Saladman wrote:
Whispri wrote:
Sixty wrote:Wonder if seeing Parson play a tabletop game involving dice would stir up any memories for her.

Odds on Clay roping her into gaming?


Signamancy (hot girl, pale figure-painting guy in stained clothes living in a basement) says odds approach zero.

Tell that to Parson.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby cloudbreaker » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:20 am

OneHugeTuck wrote:Hmm. So she's currently level 3 (novice class). I wonder if there's a tiered system, meaning she gets to level X, graduates from novice level to adept(?) level 1, then later after leveling up moves on to Master class level 1.

A Sizemore update said a caster's class has nothing to do with level (although I'm sure masters are generally still higher levels than novices). So you could potentially have a level one master and a level ten novice, even though it would be unlikely.

Sizemore Rockwell wrote:Between the volcano link-up and his three recent levels (two from traps and combat, one from all of the city rebuilding), Sizemore was now a greater Dirtamancer than he ever imagined he could become. He had not actually crossed the threshold to Master class, but that could happen any time a caster gained powerful new insight into his discipline or major class.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby Whispri » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:54 am

I'm a bit surprised to learn that there was a night before she rode to war, in Episode 004, Overlord Firebough spoke of their plan being to 'sally now', which rather gave me the impression they'd be leaving that very turn.
Last edited by Whispri on Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby Dr Pepper » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:56 am

I'm guessing there's a Side called Transsopition. Or is it Roonerspism?
Read, like there won't be a movie
Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby Dr Pepper » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:03 am

cloudbreaker wrote:
OneHugeTuck wrote:Hmm. So she's currently level 3 (novice class). I wonder if there's a tiered system, meaning she gets to level X, graduates from novice level to adept(?) level 1, then later after leveling up moves on to Master class level 1.

A Sizemore update said a caster's class has nothing to do with level (although I'm sure masters are generally still higher levels than novices). So you could potentially have a level one master and a level ten novice, even though it would be unlikely.

Sizemore Rockwell wrote:Between the volcano link-up and his three recent levels (two from traps and combat, one from all of the city rebuilding), Sizemore was now a greater Dirtamancer than he ever imagined he could become. He had not actually crossed the threshold to Master class, but that could happen any time a caster gained powerful new insight into his discipline or major class.


2 Dimensional advancement. Level gives you raw power and/or casting skill, Class gives you depth of understanding. Effect of spell depends on both, but more on Class. Say E=J(L+C^2), where J is the amount of Juice used.
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Game, like the die rolls don't matter
Filk, like everyone is tone deaf anyway

10 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . Dr Pepper
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . .4
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby MonteCristo » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:03 am

The more and more I think that delphie will be the true cause to goodmitten's fall...
Like she already determined that it would fall, and rather than try to save it, she will actually be counter-productive and focus only on making sure wanda is ready to escape when everything falls apart.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby doran » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:23 am

Hmm I'm not sure if I'm understanding Clay's explanation here. Is it that if he boosts the luck of a unit, any choice they make is more likely to have better environmental factors (e.g. wind just right on an arrow shot etc.), or they are more likely to make the best choice to succeed, and the outcomes play out from there (parry instead of thrust etc.).

By his explanation I'm thinking the latter, with luckamancy granting units better intuition about the right choices. If the larger choices, (fire an arrow or do nothing), are easily determined by the units basic training, then the intuition effects the microdecisions - fire now instead of then, or fire at this vulnerable spot.

It does not effect environmental factors directly, such as the wind itself, or random debris, although potentially it could setup a chain of one unit effecting the environment to effect another units chances. That's left to Fate, perhaps - decides all the things units can't directly?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby cloudbreaker » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:27 am

I have this strange feeling that Delphie may have recalled Wanda (at least in part) so that the Croakamancer doesn't gain more levels and replace Delphie as Goodminton's Chief Caster. Anyone else think this is likely?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby Kreistor » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:33 am

This is a mechanical update. What Clay is describing is the fundamental mechanics of the conflict system. I say conflict instead of combat, because combat is a sub-set of conflict, allowing the system to extend beyond mere battle.

This may have been the most important update... ever.

It's tought to wrap your head around what's happening, because Clay doesn't really talk about enough for some people, I'm sure.

So, two soldiers (A and B) approach each other. They decide on how to attack and defend against the other and moments later, B lies dead. What happened? There were no rolls. Well, it's like this. The thought of what to do that occurs is the actual roll. There is no environmental dice rolling and then forcing them to action: the dice rolls are the thoughts that guide their actions.

So, Leadership now makes more sense. If you are in the stack of a Warlord, you can have better thoughts and increase your chances of winning. The same with other bonuses. They all increase the quality of your chosen methods of attack and defense.

How is this different from our world? Well, superficially, it will appear to be similar, but in the midst of combat, having a leader near can't help you. You're concentrating, looking for openings, moving, predicting... but what you aren't doing is listening to your boss. You can't devote your attention to someone''s voice, or you'll get skewered. That means with or without an Officer near, you'll fight the same way, because you ignore him. In Erfworld, having that Officer beside you allows you to make better choices, wihtout paying any attention to him.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby Whispri » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:35 am

cloudbreaker wrote:I have this strange feeling that Delphie may have recalled Wanda (at least in part) so that the Croakamancer doesn't gain more levels and replace Delphie as Goodminton's Chief Caster. Anyone else think this is likely?

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. At the very least to talk to Wanda before it happened. It's hard to see what the argument is against Wanda being made Chief Caster even now though, Atomic isn't the highest level Warlord in the side, plus Wanda's leadership bonus would be handy to have applied 'Chief' style.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby sleepymancer » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:10 am

Whispri wrote:
cloudbreaker wrote:I have this strange feeling that Delphie may have recalled Wanda (at least in part) so that the Croakamancer doesn't gain more levels and replace Delphie as Goodminton's Chief Caster. Anyone else think this is likely?

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. At the very least to talk to Wanda before it happened. It's hard to see what the argument is against Wanda being made Chief Caster even now though, Atomic isn't the highest level Warlord in the side, plus Wanda's leadership bonus would be handy to have applied 'Chief' style.


Politically, yes, I think it makes sense. It was the first thing that popped in my head when I read it. But then I started reflecting, if it was any other type of caster I think I would agree entirely, but with Delphie being a Predictamancer I am not quite so sure. In a lovely piece of irony, predictamancers are quite difficult to predict! I guess they like it that way, or Rob does :D
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby Tathar » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:37 am

doran wrote:Hmm I'm not sure if I'm understanding Clay's explanation here. Is it that if he boosts the luck of a unit, any choice they make is more likely to have better environmental factors (e.g. wind just right on an arrow shot etc.), or they are more likely to make the best choice to succeed, and the outcomes play out from there (parry instead of thrust etc.).

By his explanation I'm thinking the latter, with luckamancy granting units better intuition about the right choices. If the larger choices, (fire an arrow or do nothing), are easily determined by the units basic training, then the intuition effects the microdecisions - fire now instead of then, or fire at this vulnerable spot.

It does not effect environmental factors directly, such as the wind itself, or random debris, although potentially it could setup a chain of one unit effecting the environment to effect another units chances. That's left to Fate, perhaps - decides all the things units can't directly?

Well, if we're talking intuition, we've already been told that a Thinkamancer can share a unit's intuition with another. I forget the actual update, but it was around the time the GMTTA was introduced.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 007

Postby Tathar » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:50 am

Kreistor wrote:This is a mechanical update. What Clay is describing is the fundamental mechanics of the conflict system. I say conflict instead of combat, because combat is a sub-set of conflict, allowing the system to extend beyond mere battle.

This may have been the most important update... ever.

It's tought to wrap your head around what's happening, because Clay doesn't really talk about enough for some people, I'm sure.

So, two soldiers (A and B) approach each other. They decide on how to attack and defend against the other and moments later, B lies dead. What happened? There were no rolls. Well, it's like this. The thought of what to do that occurs is the actual roll. There is no environmental dice rolling and then forcing them to action: the dice rolls are the thoughts that guide their actions.

So, Leadership now makes more sense. If you are in the stack of a Warlord, you can have better thoughts and increase your chances of winning. The same with other bonuses. They all increase the quality of your chosen methods of attack and defense.

How is this different from our world? Well, superficially, it will appear to be similar, but in the midst of combat, having a leader near can't help you. You're concentrating, looking for openings, moving, predicting... but what you aren't doing is listening to your boss. You can't devote your attention to someone''s voice, or you'll get skewered. That means with or without an Officer near, you'll fight the same way, because you ignore him. In Erfworld, having that Officer beside you allows you to make better choices, wihtout paying any attention to him.

This also raises the question of whether Parson can improve the personal Luckamancy of casters by playing wargame simulations like he did with Jack. Theoretically, if the wargames are similar enough to Erf, then Parson can give Jack the tactical experience -- and therefore better decision-making -- of a thousand battles as commander without putting anyone at risk.
Beeskee wrote:I was reluctant to assume Charlie was the Wizard, since it seems like if a butterfly farts in an unmapped hex, we're all ready to assume it's somehow part of Charlie's grand schemes to control the wind or whatever.
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