Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby gameboy1234 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:07 pm

MonteCristo wrote:There would have to be some kind of loop hole in the spell... like the amount of juice the spell requires...


I'm guessing juice is one of the restrictions. Another would be range; it seems to be limited to one hex. What's the point of preventing combat in one hex if the rest of your side is ground into the dust?

Another might be siege. We know farms exist in Erfworld. Usually if an enemy occupies the hex your farm is in, you don't get production from it. Combat might not be needed, just occupation. Your city(ies) will eventually fall from lack of resources. Eventually you couldn't afford to pay the upkeep of a high level Florist.

Treachery and assassination might be another "loophole." There are probably other things we don't know about.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Namegduf » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:08 pm

MonteCristo wrote:ok NOW i'm rather concerned with Olive's level of power with that no-combat spell. Namely that it has the potential to make it impossible for a side to fall. I mean if you can stop all combat EVERY turn in a city then that means that you could make it impossible for combat to occur within the capitol which means keeping the side alive. There would have to be some kind of loop hole in the spell... like the amount of juice the spell requires is based on the number of troops in the battle space; that way the spell can only be cast every turn if the number of troops in the area is limited; bring enough troops into the battle space and then the spell costs too much for a caster to cast each turn, you need to use two turn's worth of juice and thus can only cast it once every two turns.


http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F013.jpg says "Even a Grand Abbie couldn't hope to quiet the coming battle", so presumably there's some limits based on the scale, duration, or such of the potential battle. It's also only said it can be cast again, not that it can be cast indefinitely; if other caster types than Turnamancers can save juice, maybe Olive Branch has already saved up enough juice for two (or some other finite number) of turns.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Kreistor » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:20 pm

BanzaiJoe wrote:2) I'm a regular reader, but not hardcore myth junkie. Has Farrah Fawcett been represented yet, because that's who I say Olive is similar too. The description matches nicely. /onthe record


Her eyes are wrong. Farah's were blue (though some people seem to think there's a slight green tint). She may have worn contacts to make them more green for some movies.

Further, when I think of Flower Power, Farah isn't the first person to mind. I think you should be looking more towards musicians than actresses. I would think of Farah more as a Date-o-mancer than Florist. Maybe a Signamancer, given actors capacity to symbolize via actions and make-up.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby SteveMB » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:32 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:
MonteCristo wrote:There would have to be some kind of loop hole in the spell... like the amount of juice the spell requires...


I'm guessing juice is one of the restrictions. Another would be range; it seems to be limited to one hex. What's the point of preventing combat in one hex if the rest of your side is ground into the dust?

One hex seems to be a general limit -- when the reports came in about "some kinda single Dirtamancy trap. Across multiple hexes", the reaction was to dismiss it as impossible.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby sleepymancer » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:59 pm

SteveMB wrote:
gameboy1234 wrote:
MonteCristo wrote:There would have to be some kind of loop hole in the spell... like the amount of juice the spell requires...


I'm guessing juice is one of the restrictions. Another would be range; it seems to be limited to one hex. What's the point of preventing combat in one hex if the rest of your side is ground into the dust?

One hex seems to be a general limit -- when the reports came in about "some kinda single Dirtamancy trap. Across multiple hexes", the reaction was to dismiss it as impossible.


Yeah, I'm with the one hex limit. ranged siege from outside could be deadly. Poisons can still be drunk so that kind of subterfuge attack could be doable. in fact mix them and fling the old cow in the drinking water??

As to multiple hex attacks, yes I got the sense that those were forces of nature rather than anything player controllable. Of course, If Parson is a hippiemancer too then he may do another multiple hex casting in the future and organise Woodstock. Love truly is a Battlefield :p

Oh, as to the story I am loving this so much!! Everything is good and shiny, and it is wonderful to see Wanda falling in love, but then I'm just an old romantic :p :p :p
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Gorky » Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:49 pm

I'm interested in these pink flowers. What do they represent? Cause whatever it is, they still seem to be some of Wanda's Signamancy in the "present."
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby ParsonIsOP » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:20 pm

Namegduf wrote:http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F013.jpg says "Even a Grand Abbie couldn't hope to quiet the coming battle", so presumably there's some limits based on the scale, duration, or such of the potential battle. It's also only said it can be cast again, not that it can be cast indefinitely; if other caster types than Turnamancers can save juice, maybe Olive Branch has already saved up enough juice for two (or some other finite number) of turns.

On Juice:

I don't think Turnamancers are able to save juice above a maximum. What seems more plausible is that it takes multiple turns for all Casters to come back to their maximum capacity.

If it took our hypothetical Turnamancer three turns to max out, then using two turns of Juice would be a lot to use all at once.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Raza » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:35 pm

ParsonIsOP wrote:
Namegduf wrote:http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F013.jpg says "Even a Grand Abbie couldn't hope to quiet the coming battle", so presumably there's some limits based on the scale, duration, or such of the potential battle. It's also only said it can be cast again, not that it can be cast indefinitely; if other caster types than Turnamancers can save juice, maybe Olive Branch has already saved up enough juice for two (or some other finite number) of turns.

On Juice:

I don't think Turnamancers are able to save juice above a maximum. What seems more plausible is that it takes multiple turns for all Casters to come back to their maximum capacity.

That's really just a more intuitive portrayal of what'd be essentially the same mechanic.

Which is an improvement, but I don't think any caster type can save juice beyond what they regain daily - no other erfworld stat seems to recharge to anything less than maximum on the start of turn. I imagine Vanna could spend two turns worth because her spell, by virtue of its own effect, spanned across two turns - not exactly an elegant explanation, but it beats the alternatives at this point.

ETA: Also, we know that Bunny spent the remainders of her juice at the end of turn on personal stuff, because that's the only juice duty allowed her to spend that way. I think that rules out saving it.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby chefsotero » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:03 pm

[equiptinfoilhat]Is Olive Branch and nick name for young janis? That would explain Wanda working for her (even thou unknowingly) with the whole bringing parson to the game and breaking thigs. And the power level seens to fit quite nicely[/equiptinfoilhat]

This poped in my head and I had to share :P Now I really wanto to see Olive
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby gameboy1234 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:07 pm

Raza wrote:ETA: Also, we know that Bunny spent the remainders of her juice at the end of turn on personal stuff, because that's the only juice duty allowed her to spend that way. I think that rules out saving it.


Vanna here says that the Kingworld spell used up "two turns' worth" of juice, and she has some juice remaining.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -02-24.jpg

I think that requires saving juice, up to a maximum limit. As for the comment about Bunny, I dunno, and it's a good point. Continuity error? Or maybe Bunny like Maggy is low level and can't save juice yet? I doubt Thinkmancers see a lot of action in the field, so I'd guess they just level up really slowly.

Beats me.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Phoenix1 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:10 pm

Just had a thought, what if Vanna wasn't saying the spell used two turns worth as in, "My total pool of juice for the next two turns," but rather, "Twice the amount of juice it would take to cast the spell to turn an opponent"? So like if Maggie were saying "two thinkagrams worth" or Jack saying "two veils worth." It fits fairly well, her next spell, attempting to turn Ansom, wipes the remainder of her juice, so about 1/3 of her juice for a turn attempt, the other 2/3 from Kingworld.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby chefsotero » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:21 pm

Phoenix1 wrote:Just had a thought, what if Vanna wasn't saying the spell used two turns worth as in, "My total pool of juice for the next two turns," but rather, "Twice the amount of juice it would take to cast the spell to turn an opponent"?


That or while linked the casters share a pool of juice, and charlie got a whole booping bunch. So the speel costed 2 turns (as in as much juice she would get in a turn) worth of her juice, but most of it came from charlie.

Speculation: Linked casters always give amounts of juice to a speel in direct proportion of their own juice.

ex. If given spell A will cost 10% of the total juice of all the casters in the link, every caster will put in 10% of it's own juice.

that way the link will always run out of juice exectly at the same time that all single casters in the link will.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby JustDoug » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:51 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:
Raza wrote:ETA: Also, we know that Bunny spent the remainders of her juice at the end of turn on personal stuff, because that's the only juice duty allowed her to spend that way. I think that rules out saving it.


Vanna here says that the Kingworld spell used up "two turns' worth" of juice, and she has some juice remaining.



Going blind on this one, but I recall Vanna being in a Caster Link, which enabled her to cast the Kingworld spell in the first place. There was no Word of God on this (again, as I recall), but it was bruted about that was the reason that she was able to expend more than double of what would be a single day's worth of Juice all at once, and still have some of her "natural" charge left over.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Whispri » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:49 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:
Raza wrote:ETA: Also, we know that Bunny spent the remainders of her juice at the end of turn on personal stuff, because that's the only juice duty allowed her to spend that way. I think that rules out saving it.


Vanna here says that the Kingworld spell used up "two turns' worth" of juice, and she has some juice remaining.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -02-24.jpg

I think that requires saving juice, up to a maximum limit. As for the comment about Bunny, I dunno, and it's a good point. Continuity error? Or maybe Bunny like Maggy is low level and can't save juice yet? I doubt Thinkmancers see a lot of action in the field, so I'd guess they just level up really slowly.

Beats me.

The most simple explanation for the Turnawitches comment is this: She has full juice as she starts casting the spell, she powers the spell with this. Her turn starts as a result, refreshing her juice. The spell then drains most of this as well, thus taking two turns worth of the stuff and preventing her from casting the spell for free.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Lamech » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:20 pm

Phoenix1 wrote:Just had a thought, what if Vanna wasn't saying the spell used two turns worth as in, "My total pool of juice for the next two turns," but rather, "Twice the amount of juice it would take to cast the spell to turn an opponent"? So like if Maggie were saying "two thinkagrams worth" or Jack saying "two veils worth." It fits fairly well, her next spell, attempting to turn Ansom, wipes the remainder of her juice, so about 1/3 of her juice for a turn attempt, the other 2/3 from Kingworld.
I think what happened was that she used nearly all her juice and she didn't recover any. That would keep the "basically" from being pointless. She actually used a turn of juice and recovered none, but that is basically two turns worth. Also as further evidence* we can note that we have talk of saving remaining arrows and no one had rations pop for them. Hence, I suspect that Kingworld must screw over a lot of things that recover at the start of turn.

*not very good evidence

P.S. Or what whispri said.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Dr Pepper » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:35 am

BanzaiJoe wrote: Has Farrah Fawcett been represented yet


As an original member of Charlie's Angels, she's been implicitly referenced many times.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Raza » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:25 am

gameboy1234 wrote:
Raza wrote:ETA: Also, we know that Bunny spent the remainders of her juice at the end of turn on personal stuff, because that's the only juice duty allowed her to spend that way. I think that rules out saving it.


Vanna here says that the Kingworld spell used up "two turns' worth" of juice, and she has some juice remaining.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -02-24.jpg

I think that requires saving juice, up to a maximum limit. As for the comment about Bunny, I dunno, and it's a good point. Continuity error? Or maybe Bunny like Maggy is low level and can't save juice yet? I doubt Thinkmancers see a lot of action in the field, so I'd guess they just level up really slowly.

Beats me.

If you take it strictly literally, yes. I think she said it took "Basically two turns worth", though, which doesn't feel like it rules out having a little bit left over from the second turn's worth... more as if it's intended to explain how she could be low at the start of turn at all.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Kreistor » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:40 am

Raza wrote:If you take it strictly literally, yes. I think she said it took "Basically two turns worth", though, which doesn't feel like it rules out having a little bit left over from the second turn's worth... more as if it's intended to explain how she could be low at the start of turn at all.


We know that the amount of Juice available changes in a Link. Wanda was bone dry and Sizemore heavily used up during the final battle in Book 1, but were able to cast a massive spell with, seemingly, only Maggie's Juice (who had been ordered from the start to Conserve).

I think the only way everything resolves is if Casters have a Tnak deeper than one Turn's Juice, and normally they only allow themselves to burn down to one Turn's Juice from Maximum, to ensure they have a Full Tank each day.

So when Bunny cuts off her conversation with Caesar, it's not because she is completely out of Juice, but because she has reached the point where she will return to maximum with one day's production.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Mrtyuh » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:17 pm

Larry Ansell. Like an ansul fire suppression system? Haffaton does use firemen, and they did just extinguish the flames of Goodminton aggression. Sorry, I'm just trying to pick out the themes/puns/jokes.

Whispri wrote:I hope those aren't prophetic dreams, some of them sound nasty.

They very well may be prophetic. The being worshipped by all like a Titan may be the decypted and their devotion to her. The leading a huge army of uncroaked but being unable to talk could refer to when she uncroaked the Jetstone forces in the tunnels, and the recent snapping of the suggestion spell made speech difficult for her.

gameboy1234 wrote:
Zeku wrote:She's falling in love with Olive.


That's what I got too. Wanda likes pretty blonde girls.

Thirded or fourthed or whatever. If, indeed, Wanda does end up in a long-term, meaningful relationship with Olive Branch, it does raise some questions about her relationship with Jillian. Does she really love Jillian, or is she simply trying to stick a Jillian-shaped peg in an Olive-shaped hole. I need to stop speculating.

kreszantas wrote:
Saladman wrote:Interesting.

Date-a-mancy and Signamancy are Hippiemancy's additional disciplines to Flower Power, and this Florist could have some natural or casting ability in one or both of those as well. (Date-a-mancy's "those spells" for the blushes, and reading Tommy's aura if she literally did and it wasn't a figure of speech.) Between that and a full city peace spell she might well be a master class Hippiemancer, though I'm not saying it's necessary for what we know so far.

I guess I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop - a fair and charitable peace treaty seems unlikely in Erfworld to begin with, and hard to square with Haffaton earlier pushing Goodminton to the brink of extinction, but with their Hippiemancer taking the lead now I suppose it's possible.


Hippiemancer is the name of those three individual classes already combined. Its the only caster type we have seen that actually can cast in this manner. All the others are merely one of the classes. So by merely being a hippiemancer according to the chart. For Wanda if she was all three she would be the naughtymancer... now that would be some fanservice. :lol:

He loved her, as he loved them all. You couldn't help it. Now, this could simply be Sizemore's perspective, or it could be interpretted that Hippiemancers have something that make you want to love them. Maybe they all have a bit of Date-a-mancy, even if they aren't Date-a-mancers. I know, I'm stretching a bit.

chefsotero wrote:[equiptinfoilhat]Is Olive Branch and nick name for young janis? That would explain Wanda working for her (even thou unknowingly) with the whole bringing parson to the game and breaking thigs. And the power level seens to fit quite nicely[/equiptinfoilhat]

This poped in my head and I had to share :P Now I really wanto to see Olive

I doubt it. Janis doesn't seem to know Wanda too well, while it seems Olive will be getting to know Wanda extremely well. All Janis thinks about Wanda is that she was a loveless woman from a hopeless side, and Marie is hung up on her. If they had a history together, I think it would have been mentioned.

Whispri wrote:The most simple explanation for the Turnawitches comment is this: She has full juice as she starts casting the spell, she powers the spell with this. Her turn starts as a result, refreshing her juice. The spell then drains most of this as well, thus taking two turns worth of the stuff and preventing her from casting the spell for free.

This is how I interpretted the statement.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Kreistor » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:56 pm

Mrtyuh wrote:Larry Ansell. Like an ansul fire suppression system? Haffaton does use firemen, and they did just extinguish the flames of Goodminton aggression. Sorry, I'm just trying to pick out the themes/puns/jokes.


Larry Ansell.

Ansell, Larry.

Ancillary

1. subordinate; subsidiary.
2. auxiliary; assisting.
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