Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby gameboy1234 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:36 pm

Mrtyuh wrote:Larry Ansell. Like an ansul fire suppression system?


Considering Olive Branch and her Chillaxe, Haffaton seemed kinda hippie to me, so I made the association with Ansel Adams, a well known photographer and member of the Sierra Club for most of his life. The description of Larry Ansell seems to match a bit. "...shaggy mane of brown hair and a robust beard to match."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansel_Adams

However it's spelled differently, so that's kinda tenuous imo. The Larry part, I don't know.
"Do it?" Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby ParsonIsOP » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:13 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:
Raza wrote:ETA: Also, we know that Bunny spent the remainders of her juice at the end of turn on personal stuff, because that's the only juice duty allowed her to spend that way. I think that rules out saving it.


Vanna here says that the Kingworld spell used up "two turns' worth" of juice, and she has some juice remaining.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -02-24.jpg

I think that requires saving juice, up to a maximum limit. As for the comment about Bunny, I dunno, and it's a good point. Continuity error? Or maybe Bunny like Maggy is low level and can't save juice yet? I doubt Thinkmancers see a lot of action in the field, so I'd guess they just level up really slowly.

Beats me.

You can still account for it if a Thinkagram actually costs less Juice than you would get back at the start of your next turn. By this logic, a Caster could theoretically stay maxed by never spending more Juice in a day than they would get back. If a Thinkagram costs a tenth of a day's Juice, then it might be theoretically possible that Bunny spent less than a day's Juice on business.

We also don't exactly know how it is Thinkagrams work or if Bunny just so happens to be a stronger Thinkamancer than Maggie.

Or we can just chalk it up to artistic license. Whatever.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby gameboy1234 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:28 pm

Yes, right now I do think either artistic license or continuity error are the best explanations. It seems completely contradictory, no matter how you slice it, and despite others' best efforts.

Or maybe Bunny had an agreement with King Don that she could do what she wanted with her remaining juice? King Don seems the type to try to reign by dishing out rewards to his subjects. It seems his style.

I think Rob has to sort it out. I favor reconing the "fact" that low level casters don't store juice, and Bunny is low level. But it's up to the Titans, not me.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Kreistor » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:06 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:Or maybe Bunny had an agreement with King Don that she could do what she wanted with her remaining juice? King Don seems the type to try to reign by dishing out rewards to his subjects. It seems his style.


"Caesar sighed, wincing at a sudden new awareness of his wounds. Whatever spare juice Bunny had at night, she usually burned it with a voice call to him. These lasted as long as they lasted. They kept him sane."

That doesn't sound like a special deal with Don King. It sounds like casters usually get the dregs of their juice for personal use. To Caesar, at least, it isn't special that she uses it, but that she uses it to talk to him.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Lamech » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:54 pm

I still think Ceaser is just insane.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Neko » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:58 pm

Kreistor wrote:
gameboy1234 wrote:Or maybe Bunny had an agreement with King Don that she could do what she wanted with her remaining juice? King Don seems the type to try to reign by dishing out rewards to his subjects. It seems his style.


"Caesar sighed, wincing at a sudden new awareness of his wounds. Whatever spare juice Bunny had at night, she usually burned it with a voice call to him. These lasted as long as they lasted. They kept him sane."

That doesn't sound like a special deal with Don King. It sounds like casters usually get the dregs of their juice for personal use. To Caesar, at least, it isn't special that she uses it, but that she uses it to talk to him.



Or, to take a completely cynical view, Bunny contacts Caesar on Don King's orders. I think it's been alluded a couple places that Thinkamancers are the masters of Mindgame spells. It's not beyond reason to speculate that Bunny has used spells to influence Caesar's feelings for her so as to keep an eye on him for the Don.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Mrtyuh » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:07 am

Neko wrote:Or, to take a completely cynical view, Bunny contacts Caesar on Don King's orders. I think it's been alluded a couple places that Thinkamancers are the masters of Mindgame spells. It's not beyond reason to speculate that Bunny has used spells to influence Caesar's feelings for her so as to keep an eye on him for the Don.

I have seen others express that view, or something similiar, so you are certainly not alone, but I do have a problem with that theory. Don feels "Caesar [has] Duty and Loyalty in abundance, but he [lacks] the subtlety and finesse that sitting upon the throne [calls] for...At least having a blind spot for subtlety [makes] him easy to deal with most of the time." Given Don's opinion of Caesar, I don't think he would feel the need to have Bunny spy on him. Don believes he has Caesar figured out and Caesar is incapable of surprising him. So while it is possible Bunny is acting on Don's orders, I just don't see it being the case.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby multilis » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:10 pm

Mrtyuh wrote:
Neko wrote:Or, to take a completely cynical view, Bunny contacts Caesar on Don King's orders. I think it's been alluded a couple places that Thinkamancers are the masters of Mindgame spells. It's not beyond reason to speculate that Bunny has used spells to influence Caesar's feelings for her so as to keep an eye on him for the Don.

I have seen others express that view, or something similiar, so you are certainly not alone, but I do have a problem with that theory. Don feels "Caesar [has] Duty and Loyalty in abundance, but he [lacks] the subtlety and finesse that sitting upon the throne [calls] for...At least having a blind spot for subtlety [makes] him easy to deal with most of the time." Given Don's opinion of Caesar, I don't think he would feel the need to have Bunny spy on him. Don believes he has Caesar figured out and Caesar is incapable of surprising him. So while it is possible Bunny is acting on Don's orders, I just don't see it being the case.

Caesar is #2 guy in kingdom, one with most power to make a play for #1. Don has had several children already try to backstab him.

So if Don was to spy on someone, likely would be Caesar as he would likely be at least a pawn in any revolt as his the heir. (No point replacing Don if the Heir isn't better puppet for you).

Whole thing is rather complicated. Even if Don ordered Bunny to play spy, there is still risk she could still go native (become more loyal to Caesar while spying on him then to Don). A thinkomancer is better at playing puppet master in a revolt then almost anyone else including a chief warlord... she has hints on where *everyone's* loyalties lie, and she controls communication. So there is always possibility that Bunny is the real rebel, carefully putting Don and Caesar in conflict, so that Caesar takes over as her puppet. Does Don trust her, and if so for good reason?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Lamech » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:29 pm

For extra bunny flavored paranoia consider the thing on her neck. Is not that a GMtTA amulet? "Hey, Don may I suggest something?" "Sure" *suggestion* "Sir, Charlie is the much bigger threat, and he is the only one with an arkentool to cancel out the hammer and pliers. We should support GK in a battle against Charlie, instead of stopping GK" "Change of plans! We help GK!"
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby kagato23 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:46 pm

There is a factoid people arguing about juice seem to be missing here: Vanna was linked at the time.

We know she was linked to at least one person, and that person was using a very powerful thinkamancy artifact. Even assuming there's not a third caster involved (and I wouldn't be surprised if carnamancy had a hand in it, after everything), it's theoretical that an artifact thinkamancy link might give one more working juice within the link.

Vanna, however, had to channel all of it as the person on sight. I imagine spending more juice then your normally even capable of is quite exhausting, likely moreso from a remote link setup such as they had. It's plausible however, that Vanna would have some little amount of Juice in the aftermath of such a link.

I hold to the theory that it was three casters, all of whom already had to expend some juice in the various communications and the like, and in the end, after the remaining juice was distrubuted, everybody had a little left but not a lot, having expended what would amount to about two turns worth a juice from any one of them on the one last spell.

But either way (2 + artifact or 3 + artifact), there are many more explanations then "storing" or "borrowing" juice across turns, though I concede that if anybody could do something like that it'd probably be a turnanamcer.

Lamech wrote:I still think Caeser is just insane.
Only because to him the side's going nuts.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Kreistor » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:42 pm

kagato23 wrote:There is a factoid people arguing about juice seem to be missing here: Vanna was linked at the time.


No, I mentioned it.

We know she was linked to at least one person, and that person was using a very powerful thinkamancy artifact. Even assuming there's not a third caster involved (and I wouldn't be surprised if carnamancy had a hand in it, after everything), it's theoretical that an artifact thinkamancy link might give one more working juice within the link.


Except that is inconsistent with the question that was asked. That the spell consumed someone else's juice is irrelevant to Jillian's question which was about how much Vanna had remaining.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby ParsonIsOP » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:06 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:Yes, right now I do think either artistic license or continuity error are the best explanations. It seems completely contradictory, no matter how you slice it, and despite others' best efforts.

Or maybe Bunny had an agreement with King Don that she could do what she wanted with her remaining juice? King Don seems the type to try to reign by dishing out rewards to his subjects. It seems his style.

I think Rob has to sort it out. I favor reconing the "fact" that low level casters don't store juice, and Bunny is low level. But it's up to the Titans, not me.

I'm inclined to agree, but for different reasons.

I still maintain that the best explanation is that Bunny is just trying to stay on an Juice budget so that she's at a state of readiness from turn-to-turn. She won't spend more than she gets back because it would be bad for her Side and she's essentially very dutiful and loyal. Speculating that at special abilities or exceptions based on some item or special condition is unnecessary because we have a current understanding of Juice which can already account for any oddity in the statement about "two turns' Juice."

It also implies something illicit in the relationship between Bunny and Caesar. She really shouldn't be spending Juice on personal calls, but she's willing to break the rules in small ways out of consideration to Caesar. It's the kind of faux-pas similar to a coworker relationship.

That said, I think there's the possibility that Rob doesn't have the geeky attention to these details that we do because he's more interested in writing the story than making the game rules explicit or entirely consistent. Basically, he might be yelling at his computer screen going, "How the hell do you people even care that much about this bullshit?!"

We're like Star Wars nerds arguing about whether Boba Fett's expanded background story is really canon or not. He's like . . . a guy who played a minor role in two of the movies who then fell into a hole the last we saw of him.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Housellama » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:19 pm

Goshen wrote:
badninja wrote:Ok what exactly happened here?! Why do I feel that Olive just mind raped Wanda and she has no clue? Something else is going on here and Wanda and her brother are in a lot of trouble but are in no condition or any condition to stop it. Scary up date, so how and why will Wanda switch sides here?

Could be. Or it could just be good old fashioned seduction. Just like Cathryn DeNeuve seducing Susan Serandon in "The Hunger", a fun movie from the eighties. DeNeuve plays an ancient vampire who didn't even need to use her mind powers in any obvious way. She's just really good at the game after a few millennia of practice. Their love scene is very very hot....


This. Wanda got played alright, but not with magic. She was like a guppy facing down a shark.

Olive's technique was practically perfect. She took her time, letting the target get a good look at her on approach, making sure that her sensuality was implicit (by the waves and blushes). Then she didn't focus on Wanda at all. Instead she moved close to Tommy, turning her focus on someone near and dear the target instead of the target herself, heightening the need and creating that sense of tension inside Wanda. 'Why isn't she talking and looking at me?'

Then she cut that tension by subtly including Wanda. By doing so she gave Wanda a chance to show off, which she promptly took making her Fellow into a grinning fool. Being included and allowed to make a difference, not to mention Olive's approval, just intensified Wanda's desire for this beautiful new stranger. Only at the very end of the meeting did Olive make a direct connection, and when that connection was made it was made in a very familiar way. By doing so she cut through all of the new person/stranger sensation by treating her as a close friend with a mouthed thanks and a wink. That familiarity short circuited all of Wanda's defenses, so when the connection was made all that pent up desire was released straight into her core.

Wanda never had a chance. Girl knew EXACTLY what she was doing. She played Wanda like a finely tuned instrument and from the sound of it, Wanda enjoyed the boop out of it.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Whispri » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:27 pm

Mrtyuh wrote:
Whispri wrote:I hope those aren't prophetic dreams, some of them sound nasty.

They very well may be prophetic. The being worshipped by all like a Titan may be the decypted and their devotion to her. The leading a huge army of uncroaked but being unable to talk could refer to when she uncroaked the Jetstone forces in the tunnels, and the recent snapping of the suggestion spell made speech difficult for her.

If so, I fear Wanda will have a miserable time of it at Faq. Or wherever, but Faq's the most likely suspect.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby drachefly » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:53 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:
MonteCristo wrote:There would have to be some kind of loop hole in the spell... like the amount of juice the spell requires...


I'm guessing juice is one of the restrictions. Another would be range; it seems to be limited to one hex. What's the point of preventing combat in one hex if the rest of your side is ground into the dust?

Another might be siege. We know farms exist in Erfworld. Usually if an enemy occupies the hex your farm is in, you don't get production from it. Combat might not be needed, just occupation. Your city(ies) will eventually fall from lack of resources. Eventually you couldn't afford to pay the upkeep of a high level Florist.

Treachery and assassination might be another "loophole." There are probably other things we don't know about.



I'm guessing another restriction is sincerity. The caster and her allies have to really mean it. No tricks, no traps.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Kreistor » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:49 am

gameboy1234 wrote:However it's spelled differently, so that's kinda tenuous imo. The Larry part, I don't know.


Okay, I'll say it again.

Larry Ansell

Ansell, Larry

Ancillary.

It means subordinate.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby kagato23 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:36 pm

Kreistor wrote:[
No, I mentioned it.
...
Except that is inconsistent with the question that was asked. That the spell consumed someone else's juice is irrelevant to Jillian's question which was about how much Vanna had remaining.


Whoops! you're right, I managed to miss that part. I'm not sure I can agree with the idea of multiple turns storage though. It would, of course, work with the "percentage or x amount" juice restored a turn idea, and needs to, But at the same time, health appears to be restored from whatever to full, and generally in most systems HP and MP work the same. So I'd find it odd that a world as ordered as this would have different rules for hits and juice. Whispri's theory that it was doable through a turnamancy trick makes sense to me (and it's one that helps balance kingworld and turnamancy a bit if it's part of the rule), that this more seemingly game breaking spell only can be done on a full pot, which means nothing before and very little useable after the spell is cast. It would also mean the spell could only be cast every other turn, ensuring it couldn't be a true game breaker.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby rlc » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:38 pm

Kreistor wrote:
Except that is inconsistent with the question that was asked. That the spell consumed someone else's juice is irrelevant to Jillian's question which was about how much Vanna had remaining.


Everyone you know always answers all questions consistently, never giving extraneous information that doesnt apply to the situation?

Weird.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby Kreistor » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:53 pm

rlc wrote:
Kreistor wrote:Except that is inconsistent with the question that was asked. That the spell consumed someone else's juice is irrelevant to Jillian's question which was about how much Vanna had remaining.


Everyone you know always answers all questions consistently, never giving extraneous information that doesnt apply to the situation?

Weird.


It's not extraneous, it's misleading. It would initially indicate that if her tank equals her daily juice, that she definitely couldn't cast, followed by as statement that she could. It can't resolve the way you want it to.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 013

Postby ParsonIsOP » Tue Dec 06, 2011 3:59 pm

Kreistor wrote:
gameboy1234 wrote:However it's spelled differently, so that's kinda tenuous imo. The Larry part, I don't know.


Okay, I'll say it again.

Larry Ansell

Ansell, Larry

Ancillary.

It means subordinate.

Actually it's closer to being in a supportive role or being an adjunct to some other process or person.

If we're going to read into this, I'd guess it means that she's playing a role in Wanda's Fate.
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