Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby Sieggy » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:35 pm

Given Wanda's reaction to the idea of Olive chained up in the dungeon, I'm wondering if there aren't 'hidden' or 'secret' magics . . . Her feelings would indicate a deep-rooted Kinkymancy . . .
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby Kaed » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:55 pm

Peep wrote:Isn't Charlie a caster overlord?


While it looks like that may be possible, as far as we know (or don't know, in this case) we have no evidence about anything regarding Charlie's true nature and identity. It may well be that the Arkendish provides the entirety of his vast powers.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby Orzel » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:05 pm

I think it's less "Caster can't be Rulers" and more "No one wants a Caster to be ruler". It seems most sides make their Chief Warlord heir because of the nature of casters.

There seem to be two types of casters. Casters that stay home, predictomancers, thinkamancers, and such. They probably level slowly and are thus too weak or inexperienced most of the time to be trusted as rulers. Then you have battle casters who are sent out the cities often. Make one of them ruler and you lose that ability (or risk the side falling during a lost battle such as an ambush).
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby Whispri » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:12 pm

Knight13 wrote:I dunno, it just seems to me that if casters could become Rulers, more sides would do it. Rulers generally don't leave their capital anyway, since getting croaked is such a danger to them, so why not have a Ruler that can be useful when not on the battlefield? To me, it's always seemed like casters kinda stand outside of the normal heirarchy a little bit, what with their ability to use magic and go to the Magic Kingdom when nobody else can.

Warlords can be be popped as a heir (though it apparently takes longer and costs more than popping them normally) or upgraded to heir later. So far we don't know if it's possible to have more than one heir at a time. Plus, we don't know what the distinction is between between warloads and casters that are considered family members and those that are not. Does it simply mean any warlords or casters that are popped under a particular ruler? Firebaugh sees Wanda as his daughter, but Slately doesn't seem to see his casters as sons. And it can't just be the difference between Royal and non-Royal, since Firebaugh is an Overlord rather than a King and therefore non-Royal.

There's no way to deliberately pop a Caster. It's rare for an heir to be designated from outside the family. And Overlords tend to get ganged up on.

Given the reason Slately gave for not popping Trathingy as 'an' heir here, multiple heirs is a good bet. Slately's family consists of the Royal Units he's popped, Overlord Firebaugh's family consists of Atomic Firebaugh and the Lady Wanda Firebaugh. Plenty of commanders unrelated to the boss in both sides.
Last edited by Whispri on Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby Knight13 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:26 pm

Isn't Charlie a caster overlord?

I suppose it's possible that Charlie is already a Thinkamancer and the dish just augments his abilities, kinda like what the pliers do for Wanda's Croakamancy. But, like Kaed said, we don't know enough about Charlie to say one way or another.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby mortissimus » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:30 pm

I don't think I have anything backing this up, but since Royal sides may pop Royal or Noble warlords, and as far as I know all Royal units we have seen where popped in the capital, I have assumed that when Royal sides order a commander to be popped it will be Royal if popped in the capital, and Noble otherwise.

But it could just as well be a choice as heir/non-heir is, and if so they may have the (probably rather worthless) option of popping a commoner commander.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby mortissimus » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:33 pm

Knight13 wrote:
Isn't Charlie a caster overlord?

I suppose it's possible that Charlie is already a Thinkamancer and the dish just augments his abilities, kinda like what the pliers do for Wanda's Croakamancy. But, like Kaed said, we don't know enough about Charlie to say one way or another.


Since that is one of the standard guesses about Charlie's nature, and Charlie's nature is a very deliberate mystery, I expect not to have the question of if Casters can be heirs answered for quite some time.

But if Casters can not be heirs, then a side can decide to have only warlords by popping them all as heirs. Though that appears expensive and stupid.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby MonteCristo » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:16 pm

Y'know i love the contrast in feelings I have towards Delphie and Olive in regards to this deal. Really the two seem to have the same goal, but how the two characters have been portayed makes me feel completely different about that goal. In the case of Delphie, she comes off as a manipulative bitch; even when knowing it would probably end badly for Wanda, i was always rooting for her fight fate and go against the deal just to spite Delphie... But with Olive, i can't help but feel as if she is much more of an honest broker, even if she is a bit loose. As such, i find myself wanting Wanda to take the deal feeling its all for the best. It really says much about the writing that I can feel so different about the same deal and its all because of the difference between how Olive and Delphie end up being portrayed.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby motorfirebox » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:41 pm

Oh, jesus. I just got it: "Wanda Firebaugh".
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby ftl » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:43 pm

If I could shout at past-wanda and past-Tommy, I'd shout at them to take the deal. Seriously. Otherwise they're all doooooomed. With lots of o's in the doom.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby name lips » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:28 pm

It shouldn't matter, if she loves me...

It's clear that Olive doesn't love Tommy. But I think he loves her.

And if he's right that loyalty doesn't matter if love is present, I think he's going to Turn. Because he is hopelessly in love with Olive (I still think it's Hippymancy at work, not natural attraction).

And then Wanda will be the highest ranking official representative of Goodminton in the city. And she will sign the treaty, so she can save her side and stay with Tommy.

Either that, or when she destroys the Chillaxe, her side will lose the engagement, and she and Tommy will be captured. Then several dramatic turns happen before she and Tommy Turn.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby kefkakrazy » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:23 am

This one pretty much pushes forward something that's been in the back of my head for a while.

Tommy and his dad are not the sharpest knives in the box. Tommy is eager, and not a horrible leader, but he's a kid; a few hundred turns and he could be a real terror, but right now he just doesn't have the experience.

Papa Firebaugh isn't a terribly strong-willed leader; the fact that Delphie has pushed him around for so long says a lot about that. I was always amused by what Parson might refer to as "scrub mentality," too; his feelings towards magic in general, and "tricky" magics in particular, are kind of funny to see in a life-or-death setting like Erfworld (considering you see a lot of the same mentality in real life in any sort of competitive game).

Can anyone imagine what kind of apoplexy the guy would have gone through if Wanda had popped a Carnymancer instead of a Croakamancer? Lulz.

Wanda has a lot of blind spots, too, though she's at least a bit more cautious than Tommy and more pragmatic than the King.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby junovalkyrie » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:33 am

Sieggy wrote:Given Wanda's reaction to the idea of Olive chained up in the dungeon, I'm wondering if there aren't 'hidden' or 'secret' magics . . . Her feelings would indicate a deep-rooted Kinkymancy . . .


Well, she is a naughtymancer.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby Kreistor » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:34 am

kefkakrazy wrote:Tommy and his dad are not the sharpest knives in the box. Tommy is eager, and not a horrible leader, but he's a kid; a few hundred turns and he could be a real terror, but right now he just doesn't have the experience.


BS. Tommy has problems with diplomacy, and that's not uncommon in Generals. Sun Tzu thinks they all should be, but few really are.

Papa Firebaugh isn't a terribly strong-willed leader; the fact that Delphie has pushed him around for so long says a lot about that.


BS. Believing lies has nothing to do with willpower. That's Trust, Faith, and Naivety. Willpower resists habits and coercion, not unrecognized manipulation.

Wanda has a lot of blind spots, too, though she's at least a bit more cautious than Tommy and more pragmatic than the King.


Yes, strategy isn't her best feature, and that's in her Bio. Tommy told her how to use a spell against her enemy. Wanda is focused on her magic, not how to use what it produces.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby badninja » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:44 am

That was an interesting idea Tommy, why do I feel that Wanda will end up captures and her side ended if this keeps up with these type of plans? Tommy is about as bright as a brick and thick as one to it seems. Wanda's back story has been good so far but I want to know what else is hiding in her past maby some help from Charlie or some other side we know about?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby pSycHOtic chICkeN » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:23 am

junovalkyrie wrote:
Sieggy wrote:Given Wanda's reaction to the idea of Olive chained up in the dungeon, I'm wondering if there aren't 'hidden' or 'secret' magics . . . Her feelings would indicate a deep-rooted Kinkymancy . . .


Well, she is a naughtymancer.


There is shockamancy and carnymancy. We have already seen the flash mob and NSFW spell components in shockamancy. I think most things that could be labeled kinkamancy would fit in either carnymancy or shockamancy. The root word "carn" means flesh.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby Kreistor » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:08 pm

Okay, here's a scenario for you...

Goodminton captures Olive, and does NOT make her Chief Caster. Wanda stays Chief.

Suggests that they are both captured by a different Side much later.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby arkerpay » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:11 pm

Wonderful set up for the next installment. The rumbling of the hat reminds one of the rumbling of clouds before the storm finally comes.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby Lamech » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:03 pm

Orzel wrote:I think it's less "Caster can't be Rulers" and more "No one wants a Caster to be ruler". It seems most sides make their Chief Warlord heir because of the nature of casters.

There seem to be two types of casters. Casters that stay home, predictomancers, thinkamancers, and such. They probably level slowly and are thus too weak or inexperienced most of the time to be trusted as rulers. Then you have battle casters who are sent out the cities often. Make one of them ruler and you lose that ability (or risk the side falling during a lost battle such as an ambush).

I would make the stay at home caster the heir. They can hide in the MK off turn. It completely eliminates the chance of the other side succeeding on a decapitation strike. Plus even if you do succeed on eliminating all cities? Overlord is still there. Two thousand turns later that luckamancer overlord you annoyed? Now a master class trained up to level 10, just bought a new capital site after saving his paychecks (in gem form), has a couple thousand turns worth of scrolls and magic items. Plus the other escaped casters did the same? You are completely and absolutely screwed.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 016

Postby Arky » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:13 am

Kreistor wrote:Okay, here's a scenario for you...

Goodminton captures Olive, and does NOT make her Chief Caster. Wanda stays Chief.

Suggests that they are both captured by a different Side much later.


Yeah, I had a feeling after the previous strip that "Olive as Wanda's Chief Caster" is a prediction that will come to pass in "present" Erfworld, not this prequel. Perhaps Olive will be a gift from Janice to Stanley, and Stanley will install her as Chief Caster. Wanda somewhat controlled Stanley through sex appeal, and it looks like Olive is an ace at that tactic...
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