Summer Updates - 017

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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby Anton Gaist » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:25 am

So if the Goyles are similar to Archons, and Skanks are knight-class Goyles, what's a knight-class Archon called?

When GK goes after TV, considering the description of the city in this update, it might be Gotti's strategy to launch a land based attack, no matter how many turns it takes to get the siege units to the walls. This way they play a reversal of the scenario used on Ansom. Either TV launches its air units to try to take out the siege, leaving said units vulnerable to ambushes by cloaked dwagons, or it lets the siege and land units get to the poorly defended walls.

TV's air combat capabilities are fearsome. Just their bats, with the leadership bonuses from their warlords and chief warlord, could spell DOOM for any attempt at an air strike. So to fight them, do the unexpected, the one thing that hasn't been tried for thousands of turns.
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby moose o death » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:44 am

keep in mind every tactic parson attempts will be used against him if the roles reverse. if they attempt siege units, the hit and run siege distruction tactic will arise.

parson needs to arise as the leader in battlefield tactics so he can maintain a one step ahead of the game angle....and hope no-one outsteps him. so far erfworlders seem to be as tactically advanced as "we have more, so we can't lose" but they will learn from him. he will lose battles.

also i doubt the pliers can re-de-crypt. i don't know if that's what one of the previous comments believes, but i doubt it for simple game balance reasons. so under that circumstance, gobwin knob only has dwagons as air units. the archons may not survive that long.

assuming GK brings the battle to TV.
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby BarGamer » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:02 am

moose o death wrote:also i doubt the pliers can re-de-crypt...


Ready-Crypt: For when you need uncroaked in a hurry! XD

No, seriously. If Decrypted get re-croaked, I doubt that they could be brought back again, for the simple reason that Stanley doesn't seem to be able to make more in a hurry, either. But if they're just scuffed up a bit, maybe "edge of death," then Healomancy or "start of next turn" should be able to work just fine on them. Then again, this is a Master-class Croakamancer holding the Croakamancy-aligned Arkentool, so who knows WHAT her limits are, if any.

Yeah, I wish you could vote for Skanks on the calender too, but eh.

Knight-class Archons? Charlie. XD
No, seriously. Probably Archangels, Demigods, Pantheons, or some other suitable thing.
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby Frogpop » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:27 am

The Golden Archons?
Maybe in classic drive-in rollergirl uniforms?

Synergy with a side of fries and a little shake.
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby BarGamer » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:27 am

Frogpop wrote:The Golden Archons? Maybe in classic drive-in rollergirl uniforms? Synergy with a side of fries and a little shake.


*Rolls a d20.* Oh good, I made my Save Vs Naughty Joke. I'm still allowed on these forums. ^_^
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby Binty » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:00 am

moose o death wrote:also i doubt the pliers can re-de-crypt. i don't know if that's what one of the previous comments believes, but i doubt it for simple game balance reasons.


If Erfworld were a game I would agree, but Elfworld is not a game; it is a world with game-like qualities. Game balance is therefore a very weak point to hang speculation from.

Actually I think simple re-decrypting is less likely because it is narratively uninteresting (imo). My prediction is that re-decrypting works but with a twist.
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby HandofShadows » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:35 am

moose o death wrote:keep in mind every tactic parson attempts will be used against him if the roles reverse. if they attempt siege units, the hit and run siege distruction tactic will arise.


For people to learn from Parson and try to turn his own tricks aganst him, they have to first survive him. And so far no one who has been with the forces has (every one who went to attack GK is croaked or decrypted). So while so reports got out no one really knows what happened.

I see the strong possibility of an airdrop in Erfworlds future or another kind of drop, maybe a bomb or three?). But I suspect Parson is going to put a twist on it that we don't see right now.
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby valce » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:33 am

Seems likely that the number of people a dwagon can carry is more limited by the size of its back (doesn't seem to be much in the way of available seats aside from the neck region) than its strength.

.: Some sort of multi-dragon harness could work for dropping large numbers of people. You could make them out of the corpses of dead teddy bears, for extra padding on the landing :P
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby Slowness » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:35 am

The aqueduct made me think of something parson said:
"I haven't tried to 'invent' anything from my world here yet,"

Then I tried to think of, given the nature of the comic, a solution that could be implemented in a "punny" way!

I say parson converts the aqueduct into a giant log flume, like, you know, the water park ride where you sit in a carved out log that flows down a steep aqueduct full of water... That'd be sweet... :D

EDIT:
Hmm, come to think of it, he might simply be able to increase the water flow from the aqueduct to an amount they can't contain or handle on the other end, thereby flooding the city...
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby SteveMB » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:48 am

valce wrote:Seems likely that the number of people a dwagon can carry is more limited by the size of its back (doesn't seem to be much in the way of available seats aside from the neck region) than its strength.

Given that Erfworld works by game-like rules, it probably boils down to "a dwagon can carry X units* (X is known to be at least 2, and may be higher) and probably "a dwagon may not carry such-and-such-type units" (e.g. probably not heavy units).

Some sort of multi-dragon harness could work for dropping large numbers of people. You could make them out of the corpses of dead teddy bears, for extra padding on the landing :P

Hmmm... we know that the Archons had a net to carry Parson (implying that they can carry him that way), and infer that they cannot normally carry another unit by themselves (if they could, everybody should have been able to get away from the lake hex after the battle with the wounded dwagons and avoid the ambush they were expecting -- as it was, some of them didn't have the move, and presumably those that did would not abandon those that didn't).
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby Anton Gaist » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:25 am

BarGamer wrote:
Frogpop wrote:The Golden Archons? Maybe in classic drive-in rollergirl uniforms? Synergy with a side of fries and a little shake.


*Rolls a d20.* Oh good, I made my Save Vs Naughty Joke. I'm still allowed on these forums. ^_^


*rolls d20* A ONE? Heh. LOL Nice... ROFL visual... ROFLMAO Heck, I'll be leaving now.
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby moose o death » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:58 pm

HandofShadows wrote:
moose o death wrote:keep in mind every tactic parson attempts will be used against him if the roles reverse. if they attempt siege units, the hit and run siege distruction tactic will arise.


For people to learn from Parson and try to turn his own tricks aganst him, they have to first survive him. And so far no one who has been with the forces has (every one who went to attack GK is croaked or decrypted). So while so reports got out no one really knows what happened.

your forgetting vinny, the one commander smart enough to work out parson's hit and run tactic as it happened. the guy currently downing jello shots and wearing glow sticks, whom just described the defensive position of his capital in such a way that implies gobwin knob is attacking it in the future.

parson didn't really use any intelligent tactics during the real battle, he murdered ansom, and then linked up some mancers in the hopes the combo could awaken the volcano.

so far his only unique plan was that hit and run thingy, and vinny picked up on what was happening that's why he and ansom tried to put an end to it. granted this was prior to vinny and ansom knowing of parson. but that i doubt will be much of an issue now. i think every force within charlies range knows about parson now and is likely being offered schmukers for his capture
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby RusVal » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:52 pm

Can units "capture" things like defense towers, or other building-like structures in a city during the "tactical phase" of battle? Reason I ask is the part where the walls are described as only being "mildly inconvenient" to infantry seems like it will be significant down the road.

If so, a possible strategy of conquering TV might include airdropping infantry near the walls, then have them attack with the express goal of turning all those anti-air defenses back on their old owners. While TV struggles to recapture its own towers, the heavy and siege units work their way towards the city...
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby vdragan » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:23 pm

moose o death wrote:your forgetting vinny, the one commander smart enough to work out parson's hit and run tactic as it happened.


took the reply right out of my mouth

parson didn't really use any intelligent tactics during the real battle, he murdered ansom, and then linked up some mancers in the hopes the combo could awaken the volcano.

i dunno..there were some pretty nifty things he pulled. leading jetstone into committing a large number of forces in the tunnels, then croaking them, uncroaking them, and using them to shore up the walls. the dance fighting. the fighting retreat (which even maggie seemed pretty puzzled by). not world-shattering, true.. that was just the trimancer link-up =p, but still.. pretty nifty.


i think every force within charlies range knows about parson now and is likely being offered schmukers for his capture

charlie didn't seem to me to be the type to get mad about stuff like that. remember how he reacted to Jaclyn dying. i mean, hell, he basically offered parson a job right after. if anything i think charlie's going to dole out the information he has about parson very very carefully. after all, he seems to be in the information 'business'
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby moose o death » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:22 am

no i meant he actually wants parson and his mathamancy trinket. he was forcing ansom to capture parson as part of the terms of a revised contract. i think parson is charlies personal goal. that's one very capable warlord.

and while i agree, parson did a a good job of winning an unwinnable battle whenever they popped up. his tactics were'nt really "new" essentially they were take out leadership to reduce defensive position of the remaining troops. both in the tunnels and prior to the dance fighting. once in the dance fight it was still target leadership. post dance fight they targeted ansom seemingly at random and sacrificed bogroll just as arbitrarily.

but it seems the battle for GK was fought by ignoring non warlords. too gradually reduce force strength to the raw 8/stack bonus.

whatever happens from here i want to keep sizemore and parson on the same team.
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby Sieggy » Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:54 pm

RusVal wrote:
Non-fliers could only reach the city by this trail, and the move penalty was murder. Low-move units (like, say, most siege engines) might need three or even four turns just to climb the mountain. The capital had not been seriously assaulted by ground in thousands of turns.

So the defenses were mainly towers, oriented for airspace fights. The outer walls were almost ornamental, and would barely inconvenience an attacking infantry, a fact which technically made the city a Level 4.


Mm, mm. Tastes like foreshadowing. :D

Why do I get the feeling that Erfworld is about to experience its first major combat airdrop in history?

I'm thinking more like Sizemore with the Arkenshovel (assuming he gets it or it even exists, mind you) tunneling up . . . the TV side would be utterly defenseless against such a tactic. If it takes a dozen turns or more, no biggy, as it's not likely to be detected, and if detected, what could they do about it?
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby Infidel » Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:00 pm

No one's even made a passing reference to this so I'll do it.

Popped 200 turns ago. Vinnie is ANCIENT! 200 turns = 200 days, which doesn't sound like much, but for a unit to survive 200 turns in a turn based game? Well, usually it's an obsolete unit tucked away in a back corner of an empire that was forgotten, otherwise it would have been disbanded or upgraded. "The capital had not been seriously assaulted by ground in thousands of turns" again, we have confirmation that this is a really long time. Thousands of turns = years, not decades, centuries, or millennia, so it may not sound like a long time IRL, but turn based games, thousands of turns IS a very long time.
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby Justyn » Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:35 pm

Infidel wrote:No one's even made a passing reference to this so I'll do it.

Popped 200 turns ago. Vinnie is ANCIENT! 200 turns = 200 days, which doesn't sound like much, but for a unit to survive 200 turns in a turn based game? Well, usually it's an obsolete unit tucked away in a back corner of an empire that was forgotten, otherwise it would have been disbanded or upgraded. "The capital had not been seriously assaulted by ground in thousands of turns" again, we have confirmation that this is a really long time. Thousands of turns = years, not decades, centuries, or millennia, so it may not sound like a long time IRL, but turn based games, thousands of turns IS a very long time.


No, that doesn't mean that he's 200 turns old, it means that 200 turns passed between when he popped and when he first saw Transylvito.
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby Infidel » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:43 pm

Justyn wrote:
Infidel wrote:No one's even made a passing reference to this so I'll do it.

Popped 200 turns ago. Vinnie is ANCIENT! 200 turns = 200 days, which doesn't sound like much, but for a unit to survive 200 turns in a turn based game? Well, usually it's an obsolete unit tucked away in a back corner of an empire that was forgotten, otherwise it would have been disbanded or upgraded. "The capital had not been seriously assaulted by ground in thousands of turns" again, we have confirmation that this is a really long time. Thousands of turns = years, not decades, centuries, or millennia, so it may not sound like a long time IRL, but turn based games, thousands of turns IS a very long time.


No, that doesn't mean that he's 200 turns old, it means that 200 turns passed between when he popped and when he first saw Transylvito.


Quite right, but that doesn't change my point that a character over 200 turns old is OLD.
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Re: Summer Updates - 017

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:23 pm

Infidel wrote:Quite right, but that doesn't change my point that a character over 200 turns old is OLD.


I don't think 200 turns is old. It took the RCC 5 turns to march from Warchalking to Gobwin Knob. The RCC destroyed 10 cities during the campaign, and I think it took them 5 turns to move from city to city. It took them 50 turns to take all of Stanley's city if they marched in one column, or 25 when they marched in two columns. More clumns aren't likely, because in that case Stanley could have attacked them with his one 50+ dwagons. It also took some time to gather the troops of the different factions, maybe additional 20-30 turns. The whole campaign took about 50 to 80 turns. But that would be about 1/4 or 1/3 of a timespan that you consider "old", and that is for me not likely. Experienced characters should have seen at least two or three wars.
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