Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

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Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby balder » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:18 pm

New One is up.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby drachefly » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:43 pm

I thought Wanda knew that Olive knew; and I thought that Delphie shared this information with her side. I'm guessing that I was mistaken.

Also, the illustration is pretty, but I have a hard time figuring out where non-reflected Wanda actually is. I see the other bedpost in the reflection at such an angle that I'd expect to see her on the left side of the foreground.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby Cobalt » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:57 pm

hm.... i just got an Idea who Charly realy is :shock:
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby PhantomFox » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:59 pm

Okay, so not everyone has a Fate? I guess that makes the Fated people special as the entire world revolves around them. Or at least the center of one gear in the machine. Other characters orbit around the Fated, and live or die depending on their interactions with other Fated characters?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby Urf » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:11 pm

Wanda thinks Fate works like as Precognition.

The latter is surfing, and the former is ocean temperature.

_

Wanda doesn't grasp the significance of her existence and the choices she'll make in her life... THAT's her Fate. Consider what we've seen her already do. She's cracked the dimensions of Erfworld and brought Parson to Gobwin Knob. She attuned to an Arkentool and has decrypted* hundreds, possibly thousands. She's fundamentally changed Erfworld more than any other character. In the words of Jean Grey: [Everyone else] is a firecracker, and [Wanda Firebaugh] is the atom bomb. Fate CANNOT look away.

*Has anyone started a thread to discuss and parse the heavily significant, chosen word "Decrypt"?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:42 pm

OMG, Wanda is a Player Character.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby 0beron » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:48 pm

Delphie wrote:"It was the only way Goodminton could survive you."

Note the "YOU". I read this as Goodminton being in jeopardy not BECAUSE of Wanda...but somehow FROM Wanda. WOW....this could be big, excellent foreshadowing....

Urf wrote:*Has anyone started a thread to discuss and parse the heavily significant, chosen word "Decrypt"?

I believe the wiki page on it has some pretty detailed analysis of the word.

And finally, WOW Rob :) not to sound like I'm whining, but its been a while since Inner Peace came out on schedule, really great to see 2 updates in a row on the days we'd expect them :)
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby Dunbar » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:52 pm

I'm liking the whole Fate angle less and less. I was hoping Wanda would go throw herself off the tower, just to see Fate intervene (she'd land on a random stack of hay or only be incapacitated no matter the height I suppose).

But now I wonder...is Parson a tactical genius? After all, there were close calls with tBfGK, and did Wanda's side only prevail because of her Fate? Would the whole uncroaking the volcano trick have even worked? Or did the rules bend because of Wanda's Fate?

Wanda survived a nasty fall in that battle when the Archons killed her mount, if she died there she wouldn't have been around to decrypt the volcano. Not luck, but Fate. Ansom fell for the bogroll-disguised-as-Parson trick. Clever ploy? Or Fate forcing Ansom (and the Archons, who did nothing to prevent it) to act as they did?

In essense, was the ending of Book 1 due to Parson's ability, or just due to Wanda's Fate? They could have brought in Joe the Plumber as their Ultimate Warlord, and still Wanda would have ended up with the Arkenpliers.

Heck, maybe that's the reason for every stroke of Luck for the RCC as well. To make sure Wanda would get the pliers. If they managed to defeat and drive back the RCC, Ansom may have retreated and no pliers for Wanda! So Ansom and the RCC had to get lucky with Plot Armor (we should call it Fate Armor) over and over so the story could end as it did, with the obliteration of the RCC so Wanda could get the artifact.

Bah, this sours all of Book 1 for me. No longer were those individuals making actual decisions that mattered. Everyone was just a puppet on a string, with only limited ability to make choices, as in the end the omnipotent hands of Fate were insuring the outcome. It taints all of Parson's cleverness...inspiration? Or Fate whispering in his ear?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:54 pm

0beron wrote:
Delphie wrote:"It was the only way Goodminton could survive you."

Note the "YOU". I read this as Goodminton being in jeopardy not BECAUSE of Wanda...but somehow FROM Wanda. WOW....this could be big, excellent foreshadowing....


You're probably right but allow me to suggest a more mundane hypothesis. Wanda, simply by being a Fated character, is a dangerous entity that must be excised. Because Delphie and all others are more used to units that are not fated, ie, the universe will not bend over backwards for, so as to ensure some nefarious purpose. Paradoxically, if none of your stabbers are Fated, then mere statistics make them quite predictable in the non-mancy sense. And the non-fated units follow the laws of the game(like world) as you'd expect them.

Fated units though are a spanner in the works for you may see where they're headed but who knows how they get there.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:00 pm

Dunbar wrote:Bah, this sours all of Book 1 for me. No longer were those individuals making actual decisions that mattered. Everyone was just a puppet on a string, with only limited ability to make choices, as in the end the omnipotent hands of Fate were insuring the outcome. It taints all of Parson's cleverness...inspiration? Or Fate whispering in his ear?


Before we start another weedosophy debate over the nature of determinism and free will, may I suggest an alternative interpretation of those words and see if you agree with it.

It would be fine actually if everyone was just puppets strung along by the laws of the universe, because those do not care for the goals of anyone and are ultimately fair. OTOH, it would appear as if Fate has Wanda's interests in mind, a situation which you find annoying.

Is this a fair summary/recast?
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby name lips » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:43 pm

Dunbar wrote:I'm liking the whole Fate angle less and less. I was hoping Wanda would go throw herself off the tower, just to see Fate intervene (she'd land on a random stack of hay or only be incapacitated no matter the height I suppose).

But now I wonder...is Parson a tactical genius? After all, there were close calls with tBfGK, and did Wanda's side only prevail because of her Fate? Would the whole uncroaking the volcano trick have even worked? Or did the rules bend because of Wanda's Fate?

Wanda survived a nasty fall in that battle when the Archons killed her mount, if she died there she wouldn't have been around to decrypt the volcano. Not luck, but Fate. Ansom fell for the bogroll-disguised-as-Parson trick. Clever ploy? Or Fate forcing Ansom (and the Archons, who did nothing to prevent it) to act as they did?

In essense, was the ending of Book 1 due to Parson's ability, or just due to Wanda's Fate? They could have brought in Joe the Plumber as their Ultimate Warlord, and still Wanda would have ended up with the Arkenpliers.

Heck, maybe that's the reason for every stroke of Luck for the RCC as well. To make sure Wanda would get the pliers. If they managed to defeat and drive back the RCC, Ansom may have retreated and no pliers for Wanda! So Ansom and the RCC had to get lucky with Plot Armor (we should call it Fate Armor) over and over so the story could end as it did, with the obliteration of the RCC so Wanda could get the artifact.

Bah, this sours all of Book 1 for me. No longer were those individuals making actual decisions that mattered. Everyone was just a puppet on a string, with only limited ability to make choices, as in the end the omnipotent hands of Fate were insuring the outcome. It taints all of Parson's cleverness...inspiration? Or Fate whispering in his ear?

In the end, they're all Fated to make the choices the writers have already decided.

From the present, the future looks like a dizzying array of almost limitless choices and decisions. But the past looks set, with only one set of possible choices and decisions that could possibly have been made.

Is there EVER more than one choice? Is free will just an illusion? Philosophers have been debating these things for millenia.

If some external force somehow could rewind time and watch events over again, we would still make the exact same choices, would we not? Our choices are not random after all, they're based on our thoughts and experiences. Given the same input, the same thoughts, the same experiences, would we not make the exact same choices every single time?

But the thought that free will is an illusion... is anathema to most people. If they come to believe it, they despair that nothing they do can ever matter, or make a difference. We have to believe our choices matter, or it drives us mad.

Part of the problem is that it can only ever be a thought experiment. There's no way to test these things empirically -- not with only one universe available for us to observe. So it stays strictly in the realm of Philosophy due to being untestable and unprovable.

But you can see here that the very notion that she lacks free will is starting to drive Wanda mad. In a magical world, where certain people can observe the future, and when there is no way to avoid their Predictions, how can you believe what you do really matters? Wanda does not want to go with Olive, but apparently she doesn't have a choice. How can that be possible?

Most of us end up with the belief that our choices determine our fate, but Wanda is being faced with the prospect of the exact opposite -- that Fate determines her choices. Which is a strange and powerless thought. Are the choices she makes hers or not?

She summoned Parson, yes, perhaps because Fate decreed that she would decide to do so. Then Parson arrived, and made the decisions and choices that brought the Pliers to Wanda. Were those his choices, or Fates?

I can see why Wanda obsesses over Fate, now. When you are made aware it's controlling your life that directly, it's hard not to think about it. But largely it seems to be a completely pointless exercise... If your Fate is unavoidable, then really there's no reason to worry about it. Just do what you do, and do what you think is right.

Delphi is falling into the trap of trying to fulfill her own prophecies. I don't think they're meant to be self-fulfilling -- they'll happen on their own just fine.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby Mrtyuh » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:53 pm

When she'd boosted the tower, a few such nice little changes in design, decor, and accouterments had crept in from her mind's eye.

So, Wanda did guide the upgrade like a Dirtamancer, just not as consciously. Also, she only refers to boosting the tower, as opposed to upgrading the entire city. That still doesn't prove anything, though.

Wanda absently felt the lace trim of her boots with a gloved hand, trying to put her thoughts into words. She glanced at mirror-Wanda for strength. Oh, she did like this outfit, yes. It made Delphie nervous. It gave her new power.

As I said in the last update thread, Wanda has taken a step towards becoming the powerful woman her reflection shows. She has taken a step in another regard as well. She is enjoying Delphie's discomfort. Wanda is starting to become cold and mean. Also, I wonder if part of Delphie's nervousness comes from seeing the outfit in her visions. Is this the outfit Wanda will be wearing when Delphie croaks?

Delphie put her hand to her forehead, and smiled wistfully at the floor. "Oh, dear. I was making a choice of my own, I suppose. To ease your way into Olive's service." She looked up at Wanda with eyes resigned and sad, yet still accusing. "But your choices undid the effects of mine. You should have trusted me."

It seems like those with Fate are the one's who choices really matter. They're choices are the one that determine the road they'll take, and they override the choices of others.

"You lying ditch witch!" Wanda turned and stomped across the room, yelling to the air. "Loyal to what? To Fate? Not to Goodminton!"

It is interesting to see Wanda so irate when she thought Delphie might be loyal to Fate opposed to her side, since that is exactly what Wanda will be in the future. It highlights how much Wanda has changed.

"Yes! To Goodminton! It was the only way Goodminton could survive you," said Delphie, tears flowing freely down her face.

I'm glad that Delphie's Duty is to Goodminton. Delphie seemed to have intuited different paths Wanda could take to her Fate, so she was trying go guide her on one that would not have ended in Goodminton's imminent destruction. She saw Goodminton would temporarily be in possession of a highly valuable, highly volatile item, so she attempted to get the most benefit for the least risk.

She stopped in front of the mirror again. Mirror-Wanda and she both knew Delphie was right. Wanda was defiant. She would break her Fate somehow. But, she supposed, not today. Not that way. She took in a deep breath to calm herself.

Wanda is starting to accept her fatalistic view of Fate, but she isn't accepting it yet. She is still defiant. Judging from present Wanda, her defiance will be crushed, but I wonder if it will be completely extinguished. Is there still some tiny spark of it in present Wanda just waiting for the right moment to spit in Fate's face?

drachefly wrote:I thought Wanda knew that Olive knew; and I thought that Delphie shared this information with her side. I'm guessing that I was mistaken.

Also, the illustration is pretty, but I have a hard time figuring out where non-reflected Wanda actually is. I see the other bedpost in the reflection at such an angle that I'd expect to see her on the left side of the foreground.

We aren't exactly sure what Olive knew. She told Wanda that Dephlie had only informed her that Wanda was very special and worth the price, and she claimed that she learned more about Delphie's Prediction from Tommy than from Delphie herself. It may be that when Delphie states here that Olive knew, she may mean that Olive understood the significance as opposed to knowing the details.

I also agree with your assessment of the illustration. Real Wanda may be behind Delphie. That is the only place I can think of, but it still looks a little off. Also, did anyone else notice Olive's flower on Wanda's hip? Despite the fact she wants nothing more to do with her old raiment, she kept the flower.

Dunbar wrote:But now I wonder...is Parson a tactical genius? After all, there were close calls with tBfGK, and did Wanda's side only prevail because of her Fate? Would the whole uncroaking the volcano trick have even worked? Or did the rules bend because of Wanda's Fate?

Wanda survived a nasty fall in that battle when the Archons killed her mount, if she died there she wouldn't have been around to decrypt the volcano. Not luck, but Fate. Ansom fell for the bogroll-disguised-as-Parson trick. Clever ploy? Or Fate forcing Ansom (and the Archons, who did nothing to prevent it) to act as they did?

In essense, was the ending of Book 1 due to Parson's ability, or just due to Wanda's Fate? They could have brought in Joe the Plumber as their Ultimate Warlord, and still Wanda would have ended up with the Arkenpliers.

Fate seems to determine what will happen, but not when or how it will happen. If the siege raid had captured Ansom and gotten the Arkenpliers, Stanley would have claimed them, and it may have been a thousand turns before Wanda had a chance to touch them and attune. Wanda may have fled to the Magic Kingdom or left on her uncroaked mounts, and she would have needed to await another opportunity to get her hands on them. Wanda's Fate means she won't croak before she accomplishes it, but it doesn't make it happen. As Wanda states, choices do matter. Choices determine how and when Fate happens. In my mind, that doesn't undercut Parson's role at all.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby CNagy » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:07 pm

0beron wrote:
Delphie wrote:"It was the only way Goodminton could survive you."

Note the "YOU". I read this as Goodminton being in jeopardy not BECAUSE of Wanda...but somehow FROM Wanda. WOW....this could be big, excellent foreshadowing....


The way I see it, the danger is not coming from Wanda or because of Wanda. Goodminton (being an unFated side that can either prosper or perish) was in dire straits, and the Predictamancer saw that a special unit would be popped that could turn the tide of war. The thing is that obtaining a powerful piece does not always mean that you change your fortunes by using it the way you imagine you should. Obtaining a magical sword does not mean that it is through battle that you will prosper by it, for example.

Wanda's Fate decrees that she will end up far from Goodminton. Goodminton could have secured its own fortunes (for however long) by trading her away and thus putting her one step closer to her fate, or Goodminton can burn around her and force her to take that step. They chose the latter against the advice of Delphie.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby Zeku » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:40 pm

I greatly enjoyed the notion that not everyone is Fated. In the real world, religious people sometimes assume that everything is predestined. The only thing you can find in religious books is the implication that certain people are predestined in certain ways.

Unrelated note, lets not lose sight of the fact that Charlie is using thinkamancy, not predictamancy. (I wouldn't be surprised at all if these two schools were at war with each other.)

Also, I don't remember anyone mentioning the Fate of Parson. He's still largely an unknown factor.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby Saladman » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:27 pm

0beron wrote:
Delphie wrote:"It was the only way Goodminton could survive you."

Note the "YOU". I read this as Goodminton being in jeopardy not BECAUSE of Wanda...but somehow FROM Wanda. WOW....this could be big, excellent foreshadowing....


It doesn't have to be that profound. Delphie Predicted Wanda would pop and be passed on. And the usual and likely manner of losing a caster is a critical battle lost, if not your Capitol captured. So Delphie laid her own scheme to get Wanda passed on as quickly and safely as possible. But Delphie doesn't actually know, she's got no read on Goodminton at all, she's just drawing her own conclusions. Wanda doesn't have to be inherently dangerous to her side at all, except that the blind threat of losing a caster is justly ominous to an Erfworlder.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby Dunbar » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:52 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:It would be fine actually if everyone was just puppets strung along by the laws of the universe, because those do not care for the goals of anyone and are ultimately fair. OTOH, it would appear as if Fate has Wanda's interests in mind, a situation which you find annoying.

Is this a fair summary/recast?


No, absolutely not. The laws of the universe set the rules of the game. Gravity pulls you towards earth. The sun's rays provide heat and light. Etc. etc. It's not about fair and not fair, it's about being able to choose.

Fate doesn't allow the characters to choose. Fate bends the rules of the universe. Wanda fell once in tBfGK and again recently in the dragon harvest maneuver. Both times, the dice were loaded: there was 0 chance of her dying. Fate twisted the laws of the universe to get the desired outcome.

And Fate doesn't have Wanda's interests in mind. Fate doesn't give a boop what Wanda or anyone else wants or desires. Fate has decreed certain events will happen in Wanda's life, though so far as we know has set no timeline on those events (maybe the predictamancers just can't see that?).

Fate has decided what is going to happen to Wanda, and nothing will change it. We are given to believe then that Fate controls the actions of everyone and everything around her. If she did something crazy, like say fell off a mount from a height that would kill her, well, she would only be incapacitated and a dirtamancer with a healing scroll would pop out of the ground and save her.

Basically it taints all of the actions of Book 1, because it's impossible to know what actions were taken that were strokes of luck or brilliant strategy, and what actions were driven because Fate was pulling the strings to make sure Wanda gets the pliers. Maybe if Wanda wasn't fated, the dragon harvest strategy would have resulted in a couple of splatted casters and an easy win for Slately. Maybe we could replace Parson with Balrdick from Black Adder and his "cunning plans" and he would have been just as successful, because Fate is doing all the heavy lifting here.

So no, to sum up, my problem isn't that Fate is protecting Wanda. My problem is that this reads like Fate is the driving force behind most of the events seen in the comic from the start. And nothing anyone said or did had any impact.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby Whispri » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:58 pm

If Goodminton (well I say if) is doomed, it's Delphie who doomed them. Her actions made certain that the peace offer was refused. On both occasions, if she'd stopped pushing after her demotion, if she hadn't gotten Tommy so worried... he wouldn't have been so desperate to turn Olive, which is where the problems started. Never mind that the Kiloton ambush was a direct result of her plot. Delphie's 'help' was worse than useless, at every stage.

Wait, Wanda has duties, but there's been no fighting, what's she up to these days?

0beron wrote:
Delphie wrote:"It was the only way Goodminton could survive you."

Note the "YOU". I read this as Goodminton being in jeopardy not BECAUSE of Wanda...but somehow FROM Wanda. WOW....this could be big, excellent foreshadowing....

Fate... it may be that Wanda's 'chosen one' status draws in predators, perhaps Faq, to destroy her side and claim her as a prize. If Wanda's destiny is to be taken to Faq by force of arms, any side she stands with must surely fall. Even if she's away from the Capital at the time, her defeat and capture would necessitate a serious reverse and for a Side as tiny as Goodminton, well...

Mrtyuh wrote:
"You lying ditch witch!" Wanda turned and stomped across the room, yelling to the air. "Loyal to what? To Fate? Not to Goodminton!"

It is interesting to see Wanda so irate when she thought Delphie might be loyal to Fate opposed to her side, since that is exactly what Wanda will be in the future. It highlights how much Wanda has changed.

There's a crucial difference. Gobwin Knob is not the side to which Wanda was popped. It's not part of her Tribe. She owes them nothing, no debt she hasn't repayed in spades, the Side would have fallen long ago without her. Also: Stanley, an idiot to whom she's reduced to serving as a concubine.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby Dunbar » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:23 pm

name lips wrote:In the end, they're all Fated to make the choices the writers have already decided.


Ah but there is a difference, and it's not just semantics. The characters have to be faced with choices and appear to choose. Sure the writer has already decided, but good writing gives the characters motivations, beliefs, personality, etc. that make sense with the choices they make. But now all of that is undercut by the idea that they didn't choose based on any of those things, Fate just forced them to do it.

From the present, the future looks like a dizzying array of almost limitless choices and decisions. But the past looks set, with only one set of possible choices and decisions that could possibly have been made.


That's not true or people would never have regrets, or wonder how life would be different if they had chosen differently. The past is set because of choices we made, but those were hardly the only possible choices.

Is there EVER more than one choice? Is free will just an illusion? Philosophers have been debating these things for millenia.


They do, and I'm familiar with determinism, but here's the rub. Let's say there is no free will. And it's plausible...all our thoughts and actions are determined by our brains, which are made of chemicals, and those chemical reactions are determined by the laws of the universe. So it's entirely possible that we have no free will, everything is determined. We have no responsibility for any of our actions, no matter how noble or heinous. Meaning those actions aren't worthy of praise or derision, but will receive same because of other people whose actions are also determined. And so on until the universe ends.

Well, if that is the case, then nothing I do matters. But there's nothing I can do about it, as even thinking that nothing I do matters was already determined. Anything I might do or think about it is already determined. Nothing I do matters or is a meaningful choice, but I'll do it anyway as it's already set in stone. This results in a logical dead end.

So it's only reasonable to reject the above hypothesis. It may well be true after all, but if so it's already been determined that I'll reject it, so there's not much I can do about that. But it could be false, and I could have free will and the ability to make choices, and thus it's possible to have a meaningful life. And it makes more sense to try to live to that standard, as if the alternative is true you have no choices anyways.

So yes it is untestable and unprovable. However, logical analysis leads to the conclusion that rejecting that hypothesis is the more reasonable course. After all, if it turns out to be true, I had no choice in deciding to reject it anyways.

She summoned Parson, yes, perhaps because Fate decreed that she would decide to do so. Then Parson arrived, and made the decisions and choices that brought the Pliers to Wanda. Were those his choices, or Fates?


Many of Parson's choices, the big ones the comics were about, had to do with preserving Gobwin Knob. That includes keeping Wanda safe, as it is her side. Thus Fate had a hand in the success or failure in all of Parson's and RCC's plans, as the success or failure of those plans had a direct impact on Wanda and the Pliers.

Sure, small choices about what to eat each day (wait that pops for him) or what to wear each day or whatever were up to him. But the big choices? The "perfect warlord" choices? The strategies he tried out? All tainted by Fate now. It's like the wizard of Oz...Parson is a floating head and Fate is there behind the curtain.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby doran » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:47 pm

I wonder if this means Fate only happens to units who aren't determined enough to kill themselves.
Also maybe Wanda's casual cruelty nowdays is because she sees units without Fate as lower or less sentient - better to sacrifice.
This could explain a lot of her cruelty with frustration that she can't lash out against Stanley, so she takes it out on others.

Oh! Guys! I just realised remembered something really relevant http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F013.jpg - Panel 6 - I guess that implies Sizemore has Fate as well - perhaps to wield a certain Arkentool - could be why Wanda has never mentioned sacrificing him like Jack? She could recognise that knowing her own Fate has severely messed her up and knows Sizemore's but doesn't tell him.

I wonder what she means by the seemingly redudant ours - either our meaning Everyone's, or The Worlds, or their shared Fate - To wield the Arkenpliers? For one to kill the other? To interact in some other way?

I find it interesting that the Summoning Scroll for Parson has got Sizemore's and Wanda's Fate written into it, you would have thought if Parson is already fated that would be enough. It could be that one of the rules Parson has to follow (like obeying Stanley or not swearing), coming from an unFated world like our own, is to not muck up anyone's Fate. However... he's already overcome the not swearing part...

I wonder who is generating the Fates - was the script prewritten when the world was created, and Predictamancers are discovering bits of it, or are new Fates being added on the Fly by some sentience - whenever a Predictamancer makes a Prediction, or whenever it feels like it.

Also I don't really agree that people with Fates are PCs - if anything they are NPCs - controlled by a GM, with the other units background characters. As Parson is naturally free-willed (without the summoning spell controls), he is the closest to being a PC.
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MarbitChow wrote: Don't you get it yet? WE ARE THE MAGIC KINGDOM.
We're the people sitting around discussing our pet theories based on nomenclature, citing references, discussing ad nauseum while Parson finds out how it works.
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Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 024

Postby MonteCristo » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:35 pm

Dunbar wrote:I'm liking the whole Fate angle less and less. I was hoping Wanda would go throw herself off the tower, just to see Fate intervene (she'd land on a random stack of hay or only be incapacitated no matter the height I suppose).

But now I wonder...is Parson a tactical genius? After all, there were close calls with tBfGK, and did Wanda's side only prevail because of her Fate? Would the whole uncroaking the volcano trick have even worked? Or did the rules bend because of Wanda's Fate?

Wanda survived a nasty fall in that battle when the Archons killed her mount, if she died there she wouldn't have been around to decrypt the volcano. Not luck, but Fate. Ansom fell for the bogroll-disguised-as-Parson trick. Clever ploy? Or Fate forcing Ansom (and the Archons, who did nothing to prevent it) to act as they did?

In essense, was the ending of Book 1 due to Parson's ability, or just due to Wanda's Fate? They could have brought in Joe the Plumber as their Ultimate Warlord, and still Wanda would have ended up with the Arkenpliers.

Heck, maybe that's the reason for every stroke of Luck for the RCC as well. To make sure Wanda would get the pliers. If they managed to defeat and drive back the RCC, Ansom may have retreated and no pliers for Wanda! So Ansom and the RCC had to get lucky with Plot Armor (we should call it Fate Armor) over and over so the story could end as it did, with the obliteration of the RCC so Wanda could get the artifact.

Bah, this sours all of Book 1 for me. No longer were those individuals making actual decisions that mattered. Everyone was just a puppet on a string, with only limited ability to make choices, as in the end the omnipotent hands of Fate were insuring the outcome. It taints all of Parson's cleverness...inspiration? Or Fate whispering in his ear?


A little of both. Recall being a caster Wanda ALWAYS had a way out. If GK fell she would be able to escape to the magic kingdom. However what parson did was not allow her to survive but give her a chance to claim the pliers for herself; if not for the volcano the pliers would have ended up in the hands of one the royal sides. But if Parson did not choose to uncroak the volcano (just as wanda chose to not to accept the haffaton's peace offer and give herself up) that would not be the end of it... Wanda would have ended up in the magic kingdom and from there she would continue to move on and fate would draw her back to the pliers again.

We can apply this to any number of areas... for instance, If Ansom had not chosen to call in jillian to save him and vinnie after the two of them fell into parson's dwagon trap, Ansom might have fell right there and then; the pliers would have been taken by GK and would have fallen to wanda's hands sooner. As far as we've seen, fate can not be avoided, it can only be delayed. Characters CAN make choices, the only limitation is that their choices can not defy fate; their choices just determine whether fate will come about sooner or later.

However, if I recall, Wanda is of the belief that, like herself, Parson is someone who is tied by fate.
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