Summer Update - 018

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby Anton Gaist » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:28 pm

DevilDan wrote:I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the "brass balls."


Just because I didn't post in time.

I loved this update so much. Titans, if you let this city be attacked, you will lose your fun. And it hasn't been attacked in thousands of turns. Go figure, the Titans aren't above a little bribery XD.
Gentlemen, I like war.
I like trench war, I like Blitzkrieg, I like the offensive, I like the defensive.
I truly love each and every kind of war man can wage on a tabletop game.
Anton Gaist
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby DevilDan » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:33 pm

Anton Gaist wrote:
DevilDan wrote:I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the "brass balls."


Just because I didn't post in time.

I loved this update so much. Titans, if you let this city be attacked, you will lose your fun. And it hasn't been attacked in thousands of turns. Go figure, the Titans aren't above a little bribery XD.

No deity has ever been above a little soma, a few sacrifices, and some obeisance and genuflection.

Still, it's a different take on gargoyle functionality... probably a darn sight easier on the eye.

Presumably, a razed city doesn't attract as much attention as an active one. And an inert three-city kingdom in a recondite location not discovered because it had only recently (relatively) lost its foolamancer +predictamancer cover is believable enough that it's taken seriously by Vinny and others. Also believable—with some reservations—is Wanda's account of the fall of Faq.
They could not possibly win. Every man knew this with certainty, and lo it was glorious.
User avatar
DevilDan
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:44 pm

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby Anton Gaist » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:54 pm

DevilDan wrote:No deity has ever been above a little soma, a few sacrifices, and some obeisance and genuflection.

Still, it's a different take on gargoyle functionality... probably a darn sight easier on the eye.

Presumably, a razed city doesn't attract as much attention as an active one. And an inert three-city kingdom in a recondite location not discovered because it had only recently (relatively) lost its foolamancer +predictamancer cover is believable enough that it's taken seriously by Vinny and others. Also believable—with some reservations—is Wanda's account of the fall of Faq.


Yup, better have a Moll than, say, Brooklyn or Goliath.

The reason I think Faq is inert is that Stanley was going there with a small force, hardly enough to take a city. I don't think he'd go back there unless he knew he'd be safe.
Gentlemen, I like war.
I like trench war, I like Blitzkrieg, I like the offensive, I like the defensive.
I truly love each and every kind of war man can wage on a tabletop game.
Anton Gaist
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:17 pm

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby DevilDan » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:15 pm

Anton Gaist wrote:The reason I think Faq is inert is that Stanley was going there with a small force, hardly enough to take a city. I don't think he'd go back there unless he knew he'd be safe.

Thirty or so dwagons is not an insignificant force. That said, I don't see a compelling reason to doubt our current understanding of the Faq facts.
They could not possibly win. Every man knew this with certainty, and lo it was glorious.
User avatar
DevilDan
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:44 pm

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby bathysphere » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:06 pm

DevilDan wrote:The reason I think Faq is inert is that Stanley was going there with a small force, hardly enough to take a city. I don't think he'd go back there unless he knew he'd be safe.

I think in all likelihood you're right. But it is possible that he knew Faq had limited defensive capabilities or that he didn't intend to invade it. (Perhaps he was going to modify the terms of the deal he had struck. Or something. Titans only know.)
bathysphere
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:53 pm

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby DevilDan » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:23 pm

bathysphere wrote:
DevilDan wrote:The reason I think Faq is inert is that Stanley was going there with a small force, hardly enough to take a city. I don't think he'd go back there unless he knew he'd be safe.

I think in all likelihood you're right. But it is possible that he knew Faq had limited defensive capabilities or that he didn't intend to invade it. (Perhaps he was going to modify the terms of the deal he had struck. Or something. Titans only know.)

I'm piping in, particularly because I was, erm, misquoted. The words above were Anton Gaist's and not my own.

Stanley expected GK to fall... he took everything and everyone he could, as far as I can understand it, and he was prepared for a fight. Why else take a relatively unimportant knight and not a valuable asset like, say, Maggie?
They could not possibly win. Every man knew this with certainty, and lo it was glorious.
User avatar
DevilDan
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:44 pm

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby John Campbell » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:26 pm

moose o death wrote:innuendo and mallet to the face level.

i don't know why wedding bells are ringing for so many people. units pop when ordered, so breeding heirs isn't needed. joining kingdoms via matrimony is unnecesary as you can simply form a contractual alliance.

Do we even know if marriage exists on Erf?

i still don't understand why FAQ is even vacant? i'm not sold on wanda's story. why would stanley conquer faq and leave it frozen? he takes two casters and leaves?

Took what he wanted, didn't feel that the razed cities were worth the hassle or the resource investment of rebuilding and defending them. The Faq city sites don't seem to be particularly good city sites, except in that their isolation makes them easy to hide. Stanley wasn't interested in hiding, or in conquering everything in sight just for the doing of it... he was interested in acquiring the Arkentools. Given Faq's location, integrating the cities into the GK side would likely have sucked him into a constant series of skirmishes with Transylvito to keep them, unless he kept Jack there to keep them veiled. Either way, it's a waste of resources that he can use better elsewhere, and doesn't get him any closer to getting the Arkentools.

When Stanley's situation changed such that his immediate priority shifted from acquiring the Arkentools to finding somewhere he could go to ground and rebuild his power, Faq suddenly seemed a lot more valuable to him. But until then, why bother?

and no-one has stumbled on this place despite the foolamaner (who is now with stanley) had to conceal FAQ from tv constantly according to jillian? either rob left a tonne of plotholes...or faq isn't vacant and jack wasn't the only foolamancer.

It's very probable that active units are easier to spot than razed city sites. That might go as far as razed city sites requiring deliberate searching to locate, while active units are passively spotted (and automatically attacked, unless there's a warlord in the stack) unless veiled.

my favourite theory for now is that faq bought off stanley by offering the traitor and something useful. jack and wanda.

Stanley would have known this, and wouldn't have headed to Faq with the intention of rebuilding the ruins. And I don't see what else his plan could've been.

faq then used the situation to their own advantage to disband jillian. who as a royal MAY convert to barbarian. wanda and jillian removed from the picture FAQ pops a new heir that better alligns their lifestyle and continues to hide from TV.

"Disbanding", in every wargame I've ever seen, means that the unit ceases to exist. Maybe you get back some of the resources invested in it. We have every indication that this is the case on Erf as well.

another thought occurs, if you eneter battlesapce with someone (which i'll assume is distance based if YOUR entering it) wouldn't TV or others notice their turns being affected. to succesfully conceal the city surely you'd need a turnamancer as well. or maybe we "failled to notice" faq a couple of updates ago. but jillian should have known it was close enough if that were the case.i vaguely recall those thoughts from vinnies perspective and not jillians. so this may be accurate as well.

I'm not entirely convinced that "battlespace" describes a physical space, so much as a mode. There are plenty of wargames and Final Fantasy-types (I refuse to dignify anything you play against a console with the term "role-playing game") where you do strategic movement and resource management in one mode, and then enter a different mode for tactical combat.

That aside, it seems likely that engagement requires actually knowing that the enemy is there.

It's not, in any case, a point in favor of the "Faq still exists" theory.
John Campbell
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:46 am
Location: The Republic of Vermont

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby vdragan » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:11 pm

John Campbell wrote:"Disbanding", in every wargame I've ever seen, means that the unit ceases to exist. Maybe you get back some of the resources invested in it. We have every indication that this is the case on Erf as well.


*groan*. Dear titans, not this again.

canon: Disbanding = poof. no more unit. However, all units in the field when an overlord is croaked also disband, but we know that heirs do not. Hence, by (albeit kinda weak) induction, it's possible that a ruler disbanding an heir actively (as opposed to passively, by up and croaking) turns them barbarian.

From wiki, under heirs, speculation subsection: "Heirs may have some protection against being disbanded by the Ruler. Even though King Banhammer doesn't seem to like Jillian, he doesn't disband her. This could be due to Jillian misunderstanding his opinion of her, or perhaps, Natural Thinkamancy imparts something like parental love. It may also have been purely an expense issue."

When Stanley's situation changed such that his immediate priority shifted from acquiring the Arkentools to finding somewhere he could go to ground and rebuild his power, Faq suddenly seemed a lot more valuable to him. But until then, why bother?


that actually seems pretty shrewd. sounds like wanda-logic to me.
"You mustn't think me vain if you catch me glancing at my reflection in the mirror. I do it solely to remind myself what I look like - and that I should never stop trying to compensate for it"
vdragan
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:48 am

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby BarGamer » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:48 pm

Spot wrote:
BarGamer wrote:No, I don't think she would've asked to find the latrine. Something so... "basic" would've sent the wrong message, as it were. By asking him to refer to her familiarly, and also down-playing her title, she sent the message, "I'm not comfortable with my rank, and the associated responsibilities. In fact, I don't want it." Don looked sad because he now knows that she will not be a good leader of men. A good leader of TROOPS, maybe. Don now has even less of a reason to trust Jillian, because he knows that she'll be against becoming Faq Royalty again. But he might have to force her to, either morally (which he knows very little about Jillian's,) physically (HAH!) or psychologically. If I were Don King, I would go the latter route: show her the view of his city or something, invoke the memory of Ansom, convince her to "grin and bear it," possibly rescue Ansom and Wanda from the foul clutches of Stanley, stuff that he knows has a chance of working, from the debriefing.

PS: Bunny's chewing gum or something?



Actually, I'd guess that Jillian is *perfect* for what Don wants her for.

The Transylvitoans rule an extended area through the use of subject kingdoms and the payment of tribute, and effectively rule an area beyond that first area through the use of intimidation, and "protection" services. Don wants FAQ under his control, and the Transylvitoan modus operandi appears to be to set a docile subordinate leader on the Throne of FAQ, to run the area and pay the Transylvitoans their "cut" for their "services" of protecting FAQ. As compensation, he'll probably offer her (a) a chance to hit again at Stanley, and (b) Vinnie as a consort.

I'd guess that as far as Don is concerned, Jillian's being a sub-par leader who fails to inspire anyone off of the battlefield, and who also shows little or no interest in the affairs of state, is PERFECT for his needs, because this means that she won't be able to foster any sort of personal loyalty among her subjects, so she could be easily replaced if she got out of line.


That's a great theory, except for the fact that Jillian is not a docile, stay-at-home ruler who wouldn't know one end of the sword from the other. (I could totally see her keeping her peeps as pets, though.) Even if Caesar pitched the "protection plan" to her, it would just be the excuse she needed for her to retry the stabbing she attempted a few turns ago. Vinny wouldn't dare pitch it to her as a protection plan, out of respect for her skills, if not her judgment. He could try spinning it in some way...
I am the Barbarian Gamer. I can roam. I can explore. I am free to make purchases or returns or forum posts of whatever I please. I'm here for the same reasons you are. One, this interests me. And two? I love Erfworld. May the Titans help me.
User avatar
BarGamer
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby DevilDan » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:36 pm

Let's not forget, among all the theorizing, that Faq was probably a tiny kingdom by Erf standards. They were impoverished enough, after a fashion, to require risking their heir and better soldiers—and, perhaps more importantly, the secret of their existence—on mercenary missions. That must have been a hard pill to swallow for the pacifist Banhammer.

Small, razed, inactive cities in remote locations are presumably at least a little hard to find: the story must be at least somewhat believable or Vinny and Don King wouldn't have played along.

As to spare foolamancers... we have every reason, currently, to believe that casters of any sort are rare. Wanda, it seems, found it at least somewhat remarkable that TV had a dollamancer, for example. GK had five casters, yes, but that was after taking numerous cities, including two casters from Faq. (True, Faq had at least three as well, including the predictamancer, but their predictamancer-foolamancer combo was pretty much their one and only line of defense, meaning that they would have been willing to invest a significant amount of resources on them.)
They could not possibly win. Every man knew this with certainty, and lo it was glorious.
User avatar
DevilDan
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:44 pm

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:59 pm

John Campbell wrote:Took what he wanted, didn't feel that the razed cities were worth the hassle or the resource investment of rebuilding and defending them. The Faq city sites don't seem to be particularly good city sites, except in that their isolation makes them easy to hide. Stanley wasn't interested in hiding, or in conquering everything in sight just for the doing of it... he was interested in acquiring the Arkentools. Given Faq's location, integrating the cities into the GK side would likely have sucked him into a constant series of skirmishes with Transylvito to keep them, unless he kept Jack there to keep them veiled. Either way, it's a waste of resources that he can use better elsewhere, and doesn't get him any closer to getting the Arkentools.


Stanley got "only" two casters for sacking a whole kingdom. He got no money; to obtain a sides wealth, the capital must be captured. It's canon. So why didn't he capture the city? Even if Transylvito captured the city later, he would at least got a lot of schmuckers. And it's not clear if TV would have attacked him; unlike Faq GK was a at least medium power with now the strongest flying troops available.
I love uncroaked Dora. I love an anonymous friend even more.

Only one man has understood me, and even he has not!
User avatar
Welf von Ehrwald
 
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:57 pm

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby shneekeythelost » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:42 pm

Yanno, when this summer update thing started, and they mentioned a 'significant distance', which everyone took to mean 'a *LOT* of turns have passed'... it's been three turns since the end of Book 1. That's it. I was figuring you'd maybe have an update here... one, two, skip a few... next update was like a dozen turns later, showing the changes going on between books.

The summer updates have been... well... the opposite. Almost hyper-focused.

I wonder if the second book will start with Jillian ending up with whatever the Don has planned for her, and trying to make lemonade out of lemons...
shneekeythelost
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:03 am

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby BarGamer » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:43 pm

Too bad TV didn't summon Parson. His first few turns, he woulda been known as Don Tknow. XD
I am the Barbarian Gamer. I can roam. I can explore. I am free to make purchases or returns or forum posts of whatever I please. I'm here for the same reasons you are. One, this interests me. And two? I love Erfworld. May the Titans help me.
User avatar
BarGamer
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby DevilDan » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:49 pm

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:Stanley got "only" two casters for sacking a whole kingdom. He got no money; to obtain a sides wealth, the capital must be captured. It's canon. So why didn't he capture the city? Even if Transylvito captured the city later, he would at least got a lot of schmuckers. And it's not clear if TV would have attacked him; unlike Faq GK was a at least medium power with now the strongest flying troops available.


As I wrote above, Faq wasn't exactly loaded with shmuckers, as far as we can tell.
They could not possibly win. Every man knew this with certainty, and lo it was glorious.
User avatar
DevilDan
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:44 pm

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:42 pm

DevilDan wrote:
Welf von Ehrwald wrote:Stanley got "only" two casters for sacking a whole kingdom. He got no money; to obtain a sides wealth, the capital must be captured. It's canon. So why didn't he capture the city? Even if Transylvito captured the city later, he would at least got a lot of schmuckers. And it's not clear if TV would have attacked him; unlike Faq GK was a at least medium power with now the strongest flying troops available.


As I wrote above, Faq wasn't exactly loaded with shmuckers, as far as we can tell.


We can tell, but how could Stanley? He attacked Faq, and he must have had some incentive to so do. He could be just bored and wanted to level, but I don't think so. He was still a warlord under Saline IV, and subject to obedience. He put valuable resources at risk and needed to justify that with a probably gain.
I love uncroaked Dora. I love an anonymous friend even more.

Only one man has understood me, and even he has not!
User avatar
Welf von Ehrwald
 
Posts: 467
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:57 pm

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby SteveMB » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:56 pm

shneekeythelost wrote:Yanno, when this summer update thing started, and they mentioned a 'significant distance', which everyone took to mean 'a *LOT* of turns have passed'... it's been three turns since the end of Book 1. That's it. I was figuring you'd maybe have an update here... one, two, skip a few... next update was like a dozen turns later, showing the changes going on between books.

The summer updates have been... well... the opposite. Almost hyper-focused.

I wonder if the second book will start with Jillian ending up with whatever the Don has planned for her, and trying to make lemonade out of lemons...

IIRC, the Summer Update stories so far were originally conceived as a pair of epilogues to be attached to Book 1, describing the aftermath of the battle from two viewpoints. Once the second epilogue is finished, there might be a bit more jumping ahead.
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
User avatar
SteveMB
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:12 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby John Campbell » Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:07 am

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:Stanley got "only" two casters for sacking a whole kingdom. He got no money; to obtain a sides wealth, the capital must be captured. It's canon. So why didn't he capture the city?

As far as I can tell, he did capture the city. He just then abandoned it after looting its remains rather than occupying and rebuilding it. What makes you think he didn't?
John Campbell
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:46 am
Location: The Republic of Vermont

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby bathysphere » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:37 am

DevilDan wrote:I'm piping in, particularly because I was, erm, misquoted. The words above were Anton Gaist's and not my own.

Apologies, incidentally. Some amateur hour forumancy (attributamancy?) on my part.
bathysphere
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:53 pm

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby DevilDan » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:58 am

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:
DevilDan wrote:
Welf von Ehrwald wrote:Stanley got "only" two casters for sacking a whole kingdom. He got no money; to obtain a sides wealth, the capital must be captured. It's canon. So why didn't he capture the city? Even if Transylvito captured the city later, he would at least got a lot of schmuckers. And it's not clear if TV would have attacked him; unlike Faq GK was a at least medium power with now the strongest flying troops available.


As I wrote above, Faq wasn't exactly loaded with shmuckers, as far as we can tell.


We can tell, but how could Stanley? He attacked Faq, and he must have had some incentive to so do. He could be just bored and wanted to level, but I don't think so. He was still a warlord under Saline IV, and subject to obedience. He put valuable resources at risk and needed to justify that with a probably gain.


I'm not suggesting that he didn't capture Faq; I'm pointing out that it was such a one-dwagon city that it wasn't worth occupying: impoverished, not much in the way of military prowess, and way too out of the way. Its casters were its most valuable resources, and those were easy to take.
They could not possibly win. Every man knew this with certainty, and lo it was glorious.
User avatar
DevilDan
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:44 pm

Re: Summer Update - 018

Postby badninja » Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:37 pm

I think I am going to like Don King. He has one cool way of dressing, though I could never pull it off. I hope that Don King gets rid of Caesar just for his level of dis-respect or "makes him an offer he can't refuse". :D
I came, I saw, I had fun!
badninja
YOTD + Erfabet + Pins + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet + Pins + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:46 am
Location: Tatooine

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 5 guests