Kreistor wrote:Right, and that is the standard being used by the critics above, so you have not proven association.
Of course I can't prove association. If I could prove, without any doubt, that that's what the Arkentools do, we would not be having this conversation.
The thread is not to quote specific proofs from the comic and to then gloat about how clever we are for parroting information we've already been given; it is for theories. Using what evidence we have available, put them together and come up with a possibility. Everyone else is doing this; your argument seems to revolve around "But we don't know for sure!
" What you don't seem to grasp is that we are aware of this fact. Of course we don't know. That's why these are theories.
And in Wanda's hands they do the opposite -- creating them. Ansom had a powerful hatred of uncroaked, referring to them as "abominations". Again, the Tool could be serving the user.
Both attuned and not, it showed a specific connection to Croakamancy,
According to whom? Who has said this? We need an expert from the comic, not opinion.
...this is how a connection works. The 'pliers have shown exactly three uses thus far: melee weapon, destroying uncroaked, creating decrypted. Two of those three are specifically involving Croakamancy. Could they do other things? Maybe. See my banana cream pie analogy above. In this case I'm not speculating as to what the 'pliers might
do, I'm only referencing what we've canonically seen them do. Given your focus on requiring proof earlier, I'd have thought you'd like this argument.
Kreistor wrote:"One might throw in the fact that that paragraph was Ansom remembering something a Caster said who knows how long ago. And memory has this notorious habit of altering/removing details."
Sorry, I can dismiss that with a simple quote from the people setting the standard. Ansom is a warlord like Stanley and not an expert in Magic.
Then by the same standard, can I not simply dismiss your arguments just as easily? I'm not. I'm honestly trying to keep the debate going. But, alright: If a lack of expertise in magic means the weilder cannot possibly understand how an Arkentool works, we can dismiss all of the "evidence" that Stanley put forward. If we're not assuming that, then Ansom's quote is significant. Or maybe - crazy idea here - they're individuals who may have differing levels of understanding about how the Arkentools work. Based on what we know, in that Ansom had been trying to figure out how to attune to the 'pliers, I don't think that "something involving Fate magic" is too much of a stretch for his knowledge or lack thereof.
Kreistor wrote:And that's the crux. People with attitudes these alignment attitudes are ignoring that fact for presenting their own arguments, but setting it as a standard for any competing thoughts. Double standard.
No, they're coming up with possible theories. Theories don't require concrete proof or the word of the TItans, they require bits of evidence we can tie together with strings of theories. Concrete proof or the word of the Titans can cut those threads; simply observing that the theories are, in fact, theories? Does not. We already know they're theories. That's not the point.
Kreistor wrote:Why not Predictamancy, Dollamancy, Changemancy, or Healomancy? They're all Fate aligned, and all useful in one way or another. Armies that can never die. Perfect knowledge of the future. Etc.
But, frankly, these were the tools that created Erfworld. They created everything, and so should be able to do anything. If there is any detectable alignment, it is in the Attuned, not the Tool. If they were aligned only with Fate, then they would be incapable of creating Erf itself, since Erf is a different axis. Fundamentally, they need to be able to do anything.
There's one thing that primarily makes me disagree here: If a single Arkentool was capable of doing literally anything, why would the Titans need more than one
? A single Tool could have created Erfworld by those standards. The fact that there are several, and they are displaying wildly diverging abilities, suggests that each Arkentool specialises in a specific area. Following that assumption, we speculate as to what the Fourth Arkentool does. Since it's hard to come up with a theory about something we have no information on, we've come up with a theory that specifically explains the lack
of information we've had thus far. It aligns with the working theories while answering several questions.
If you've got an theory or argument that shoots that down, by all means go ahead. But saying "We don't know for sure
!" is entirely beyond the point.
But of course that's just my opinion.