Summer Update - 020

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Summer Update - 020

Postby balder » Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:47 am

New one is up. Closing in one the end of the epilogues, so the narrative will move ahead faster after that.
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby Banjooie » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:12 am

I don't know. I am really more than willing to sit through the most enthralling conversation I have seen out of Erfworld thus far.
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:48 am

I wonder what happens if he ever gets a call from Ansom. A repopped unit, repopped by mortals.
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby Zolon » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:35 am

Banjooie wrote:I don't know. I am really more than willing to sit through the most enthralling conversation I have seen out of Erfworld thus far.

As much as a really, truly want to agree with you, as this is a very stimulating conversation, I think there is still quite a bit of ground to cover before we progress to book 2, and that needs to get done before the Fall season rolls in.
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby moose o death » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:18 am

yeah to be honest there is a tonne of stuff that really needs to happen. i don't think we want the comic to start proper with huge gaps in what happened.

personally didn't like this update. alot of words but not much was said. essentially the king is another bigot that auto hates anyone not royal who is in charge of a side. it seems like the entire purpose of hunting stanley really is because he's not a royal. the plaid tribe was capping cities prior to stanley becoming the leader. but it seems the only concerted resistance came after stanley was put in charge.

maybe it was the alleged regicide angle that angered most of the other royals. either way i'm certainly on stanley's side.
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby Malanthyus » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:45 am

I think that Don King is trying to explain something about the Royal's perspective to jillian, but I'm not sure I get it.
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby joosy » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:45 am

So.. Don King (complete with crazy hair.. er. crown) really DOES care about Royalty but just not as overtly as other kingdoms.

After reading Don's comparison of Royalty to Wolves vs Mice (everyone else), I am thinking .. wow.. maybe Erfworld really IS just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other. And in the name of the Titans, no less. Its interesting that for someone as savvy and cautious as Don King, he is no different than Jetstone when it comes to maintaining the status quo.

It's understandable, of course: For Stanley to rise up and become a ruler.. their equal, means that their whole social structure.. the very concept, is wrong. It also means that if they do not put an end to Stanley then he will become an inspiration for all the 'mice' under their command rather than a cautionary tale on the dangers of not knowing your place.

For reasons unknown, Don King needs Jillian to be a Royal again. Jillian is about to be forced through charm school, it seems. I can't think of a better way to learn the formalities and faux niceties of etiquette and ritual than from this world's version of organized crime. Maybe an extra in the book or Toolbox would be a montage of Jillian's etiquette training. I imagine an image of a frustrated Jillian stitting at the table with the salad fork adorned with the eyeball of her trainer with an exasperated Don King seated across from her, gesturing angrily.

Perhaps the next time that Jillian meets the re-popped Ansom, the etiquette tables will be turned.
Last edited by joosy on Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby joosy » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:02 am

Malanthyus wrote:I think that Don King is trying to explain something about the Royal's perspective to jillian, but I'm not sure I get it.


Without Royalty we would just have ugly chaos. We are all popped into our Erfworld caste system and trying to rise above your popped station (or not accepting your position of Royalty) is blasphemy against the Titans.

Ayn Raynd would probably have some choice words for their society.

This world reminds me of our world a little over a century or so ago. Many countries were run by royalty of one type or another. It was ended by uprising by various elements where the people gained control to varying degrees of success. One of the last major royalty upsets was the dethroning of the Russian Czars. This was in the midst of World War I which was started by the German empire and ended in their defeat by the 'commoners' and the changing of Germany into a republic. It was one of the last gasps of the previous millenia of wars fought between royalty and various nobles. (now its us commoners who go to war with each other but just not as often)

The comparisons to Stanley's new logo and those seen in early Communist Russia are not lost on me.
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby SteveMB » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:05 am

joosy wrote:I can't think of a better way to learn the formalities and faux niceties of etiquette and ritual than from this world's version of organized crime.


It fits that part of Transylvito's image -- Mob culture is known for being traditionalist and even religious (though obviously bending a few Commandments when they get in the way of business).
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby mhangman » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:18 am

i must say that i understood stanley now. royalty is a shit and all of these kings are bunch of redneck. they must fall to stanley. he is the prove that everyone can a chance to make big things. GO STANLEY KICK THEIR BIG .. and take their ladies!
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby Lunaya » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:13 pm

Really makes you think, doesn't it? In fact, this conversation leads me to wonder..

What if Stanley really is the good guy? O_o
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby DevilDan » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:23 pm

Well... this is turning into quite a frank dialog. Whatever else I think about nobility and royalty, on Erf or Earth, I'm beginning to really enjoy the Don's character.
The Don doesn't want to put her through charm school. He does need to convince her that there is some use for royalty.
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby joosy » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:37 pm

DevilDan wrote:The Don doesn't want to put her through charm school. He does need to convince her that there is some use for royalty.


True, but she is going to have to learn at the very least how to 'take tea' graciously. I would bet that Don himself does not 'take tea' except when he has to (entertaining other Royals, etc) but he knows the protocols. As I alluded before, what better place to learn how to fake your way through ceremony that at the hands of Transylvito.
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby Lothmar » Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:52 pm

Huh, my first read through, I thought I found a ‘the’ when there should have been a ‘then’ but then I lost it… Im going to reread to see if I can find it or if it was just my imagination.

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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby Fiendishrabbit » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:05 pm

I thought Don was illustrating a point.

He doesn't disapprove of Stanley because he wasn't born royalty. He disapproves because Stanley is an uncultured thug with no respect for tradition. Royalty means being a diplomat, it means being smooth and it means letting tradition restrain ambition and immediate profit.
That's why Don is the king and Ceasar is just a glorified thug and will never be the king.

Kind of like the old school mafia. Don King is like Don Corleone, he realizes that the thin veneer of etiquette is what keeps things to some extent civilized and honorable.
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby Glenn » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:12 pm

Here on Earth, the sort of caste structure that exists on Erfworld is based on a lie, because in a fundamental sense, the differences between the rulers and the ruled are really not that absolutely profound. That is why a lot of people reading this sympathize with Stanley; because they think that Stanley is fundamentally right to reject his world's social structure as arbitrary. Here, humans are neither wolves or mice, we are all just human. But we need to remember that, unlike humans on Earth, Erfworlders really are individually created to specification. It's at least plausible that they really are the products of intelligent design. Which means that the Titans may really have designed Royals to have a capacity for ruling that other Erfworlders like Stanley simply do not have. I think it's worth noting that Stanley has been, for the most part, an absolute failure as a ruler. If Wanda hadn't introduced Parson into this world, then Stanley would have lost every city he had when he became Overlord by this point. Is this simply an indication that Stanley is personally unqualified to rule, or does it indicate that the only people currently on Erfworld who are qualified to rule are Royals (and perhaps Parson who is a product of an entirely different evolution)? Perhaps the only way Parson could establish a real democracy on Erfworld is if he changes the rules so that everyone popped is a Royal?
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby Anton Gaist » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:16 pm

Whoa. Magnificent. So Don King really does want Jillian to understand the importance of her being a Royal, and that can only mean he wants her to be one. And that most likely means she'll be going back to Faq.

It makes sense, a reborn Faq would be the obvious choice to lead a retaliatory campaign against GK. The nearly destroyed side rising from the ashes to bring down Stanley. Even Slately would have to treat her with the respect due to her rank, and most likely apologize for his previous behavior.
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby Lothmar » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:24 pm

Glenn wrote:Perhaps the only way Parson could establish a real democracy on Erfworld is if he changes the rules so that everyone popped is a Royal?


Not necessarily. I think he could easily break the cycle with the complete and utter genocide of all royals. That way it forces the world to adapt or perish in the resulting chaos. But that's probably a little extreme for parson...
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby BarGamer » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:52 pm

BarGamer wrote:No, I don't think she would've asked to find the latrine. Something so... "basic" would've sent the wrong message, as it were. By asking him to refer to her familiarly, and also down-playing her title, she sent the message, "I'm not comfortable with my rank, and the associated responsibilities. In fact, I don't want it." Don looked sad because he now knows that she will not be a good leader of men. A good leader of TROOPS, maybe. Don now has even less of a reason to trust Jillian, because he knows that she'll be against becoming Faq Royalty again. But he might have to force her to, either morally (which he knows very little about Jillian's,) physically (HAH!) or psychologically. If I were Don King, I would go the latter route: show her the view of his city or something, invoke the memory of Ansom, convince her to "grin and bear it," possibly rescue Ansom and Wanda from the foul clutches of Stanley, stuff that he knows has a chance of working, from the debriefing.

PS: Bunny's chewing gum or something?


Right, so he's going with the moral/psychological route. Niiiice. Also, Don's face in this update reminds me of a certain wolf in another comic...

Jillian needs to learn that "being Royalty" is another weapon at her disposal. To refuse to use it, to underestimate it, is a critical weakness that other people can and will exploit. Vinny's right: Jillian might PREFER being beaten senseless, inches from death, and imprisoned, rather than do things she'd rather not do for the sake of politics. Political battles can be just as bloody, ruthless, and dangerous as any battles with units, hexes, and weapons. And political battles are ALWAYS fought on multiple fronts. There's a book I read once where someone won a battle, but found his accomplishment being picked apart and reversed by the opposing surviving politicians. In this case, Charlie fits the bill to a T.

Wouldn't it be hilariously ironic if Don King succeeded in creating the Philosopher Princess that King Banhammer wanted?
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Re: Summer Update - 020

Postby DevilDan » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:52 pm

I've noted with some amusement that opinion seems to be turning stolidly but unequivocally against Don King due to his comparing of royals to wolves and of others to mice. There is something to be said for conservatism when the alternative is the unguided, illogical, religious radicalism of Stanley's "vision" or "fate."

While I might applaud the egalitarian responses of some to this "less enlightened" view, there are other factors we should take into account. For one, royals and nobles are at least in some ways literally superior to others.

Erf is not Earth. Warlords are still needed to keep people from just attacking each other on sight, for example.
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