Whispri wrote:I didn't say Wanda would have to make sacrifices for the sake of her pop debt (although she might), I said you would. You, in this scenario, are playing the role of whatever Side she happens to be working with at any given moment in time. Goodminton, Haffaton, Old Faq, Old Gobwin Knob, they all suffered terrible disasters while employing Lady Wanda 'The Chosen One' Firebaugh. She's the only known link between them.
That's a bit specious. While I'm not saying Wanda's debt didn't contribute to the fall of those sides, it seems that bad things happen to most, if not all, sides eventually. Another interpretation is that the sides would have fallen eventually anyway and she only survived due to her Fate.
Kreistor wrote:So? Proves nothing. Rob was incredibly vague about who "someone" is and how that someone would "pay". All I'm saying is that there are many interpretations for that statement, not limited to the following:
1) The vast corpses she leaves in her wake
2) Her personal pricetag (Death in the Family, the Peaceful Side of FAQ, enslavement to Haffaton)
3) The price people pay to be close to her (torture, immorality wrt to the dead, immoral warfare)
4) Her enslavement to Fate and the pain of the path to get there
5) And your own, the price paid by her Side
I'm not denying that you could be right. I'm just saying that there are many possibilities.
I have to agree with Kreistor on this one. While I'm not convinced that is what the numbers actually mean, I do think it is one of the possible interpretations of what they mean.
Kreistor wrote:war·mon·ger: a person who advocates, endorses, or tries to precipitate war.
No, mercenaries are not warmongers. They are hired by warmongers, but they are not advocates seling war, only thier services in war. The war will happen without the mercenary. The mercenary doesnt precipitate (start) a war: the person that hires them does that. No, FAQ are not by definition warmongers.
I have to disagree with this one. There are copious instances of mercenaries starting, encouraging and prolonging warfare in history. War is their business, and they want to get paid. Even in Erfworld, we've seen this. Just look at Charlie's Rule #3
:We are in the business of solving problems for our clients. Corollary: Creating problems for our clients creates business.
Kreistor wrote:Besides the fact that for once in her life, she wasn't in the field massacring people, but staying in a cozy city? Nah, nothing attractive about that for someone that has spent her entire existence on the front line.
Yeah, moreevidence against the Warmonger accusation. Warmongers would have offered up Wanda's services, too. Or expanded beyond FAQ's bubble kingdom border.
I once again disagree. First, we do not know how much time Wanda spent at Faq. While we know that Marie and Jack were too necessary for Faq's survival to be sent into the field with Jillian and Wanda awaited Jillian's return at least once, it is entirely possible
that Wanda may have accompanied Jillian on a majority of her expeditions.
Also, when Jack asked Wanda about missing Old Faq, Wanda responded, "There are few things I miss about that time
." We know the biggest thing she misses is Jillian. I certainly may be wrong, but I've always felt that Wanda was not particularly happy at Faq. While she may not have intended
to bring about her side's destruction, it never seemed to me that she felt any particular regret or loss over what she wrought there.
I would as well.
Whispri wrote:Luckmancy is all about Numbers. It's also a fine example of what it means to be in debt to Numbers. The Side that benefits is the Side that pays. Goodminton's troops faired poorly without their Boosted leaders around for that reason.
Not necessarily. Clay was most likely a Novice-class, Level 3 Luckamancer. His understanding and mastery of his own discipline was very limited. I find it an entirely plausible that Master-class, Level 8 Luckamancers would be able to steal their enemies "rolls." Clay simply wasn't there yet. I will posit an Erf-axis view, since we have some
idea of the way Numbers and Fate view things. Life isn't fair. It is the survival of the fittest. The strong survive, while the weak perish. We must raze enemy cities to boost our treasury. We must kill units for provisions. For one to prosper and survive, another must suffer and die. If that is how the Erf-axis works, it still explains Luckamancy, however, it does not require
the numbers to balance. While Erfworld may be lazy and not go any farther than necessary to "steal rolls," a powerful Luckamancer may be able to force Erfworld to get off its lazy butt and go farther than it would like. Of course, this is just speculation.
Kreistor wrote:No, they sell services to people already at war, or who intend to go to war. Further, Jillian mentions that she prefers to hire on wiht the underdog... and the underdog is usually the Side being attacked, not instigating.
The underdog could be the side that started the war, however, had the war go poorly for them. They may have been a powerful side that has fallen due to their own actions, such as Gobwin Knob at the beginning of Book 1. They may be a smaller side that hoped to take advantage of a situation, such as Japan attacking European colonies while they were busy fighting Germany. Being the underdog, at least at the time Jillian arrives on the scene, does not mean they were not the aggressor.
Kreistor wrote:"We'd do mercenary work with griffin squads when there was no other way to boost the treasury."
The mercenary work was not constant, and only when needed for subsistence. that is not even close to warmongering. When it's merc work vs. disbanding friends? It's certainly not mercenary.
I actually agree concerning Faq, specifically
. From everything we've seen, it was a philosophical, pacifist side, or at least as pacifist as Erfworld allowed them to be. It has been noted before that the rules of Erfworld basically force sides to engage in constant warfare in order to simply sustain themselves. Faq seemed to do that as little as possible, so I would not classify them as warmongers. I was more nitpicking that mercenaries in general are merely service providers that never
contribute to warmongering.