It costs 3 AP and requires 4 AP of prior investment; is it really more powerful than our baseline 3 AP ability for comparison, Heavy? It is effective only against a narrow subset of opponents- casters- and it doesn't even stop them from working, because casters gain a whopping 8 juice per level and their most common attack abilities cost 1-3 juice. A caster of equal level to the minimum required to gain Flawless Armor (fourth) has 24 juice and can easily repeatedly blast through it if desired. Contrast against +3/+4/+10 in stats; effective against virtually all opponents, extremely reliable, and an impressive upgrade in power. If anything, Flawless Armor was weak and overly expensive as designed.Flawless Armor (Costs 3 AP, requires Superb Armor): Hostile spells do not affect this unit unless the caster pays four times the normally required Juice.
For 1 AP and requiring no prior investment, is this more powerful than our baseline 1 AP attacking boost ability, Mighty Blow (or, if we're not comparing to modified attacks, half of Well-Equipped)? Hell yes it is. It is effective against all opponents which use the Attack action, which is most things. Even better, it effectively doubles firepower in a common circumstance, that is, being outnumbered. I cannot see why anyone with the Attack ability would NOT take this power- in fact, as written I would say that this ability is more powerful than any single one of my suggestions.[Requires Attack] Counter-Attack (Costs 1 AP): Unit can make a free Attack against the first Attack action performed against it from an enemy unit that this unit is not attacking. This attack occurs immediately after the enemy attack, regardless of this unit's Combat score.
Exate wrote:MarbitChow's initial suggestions for purchasable upgrades fairly clearly moved us away from simple stat improvement and modification and towards adding special abilities to the characters, at which point the main questions become balancing cost with utility.
Exate wrote:Take the Flawless Armor ability I suggested. ... If anything, Flawless Armor was weak and overly expensive as designed.
Exate wrote:In contrast, take the Counter-Attack ability that MarbitChow just suggested.... For 1 AP and requiring no prior investment, is this more powerful than our baseline 1 AP attacking boost ability, Mighty Blow (or, if we're not comparing to modified attacks, half of Well-Equipped)? Hell yes it is. It is effective against all opponents which use the Attack action or any who use Strike and are in melee range, which is most things.
Exate wrote:Even better, it effectively doubles firepower in a common circumstance, that is, being outnumbered. I cannot see why anyone with the Attack ability would NOT take this power- in fact, as written I would say that this ability is more powerful than any single one of my suggestions.
Exate wrote:I'm perfectly willing to go with MarbitChow's suggestions, but they're significantly more "balance high" than mine are and several of them are so good as to essentially be upgrade taxes. If we want "balance low", then simply restrict people to modified attacks and stat upgrades.
Exate wrote:Having Attacks as prerequisites promotes class differences, which means balance difficulties between classes and means that more work overall has to be done in design because each class needs their own skill tree with an equal number of skills to avoid stunting anyone's potential growth. Modified Attacks can be used for requirements but I was treating them as essentially their own "tree" in which the later levels are simply stacking more abilities on, while the passive abilities suggested each formed the starting point for a tree of more specialized abilities. We should clear up these design differences if possible.
Shield Mastery is only available to units level 4 and up, that have essentially concentrated on defense. Since the only other defense against a shockamancer is massive HP, I'm ok with this.ETheBoyce wrote:Shield Mastery seems to be designed to completely screw me over, I already do less damage with my spells because of low combat/less dice, but now my ability to ignore defense(and I'm the only unit with that ability) is gone.
ETheBoyce wrote:Shield Wall also is really strong, how exactly does a guy with a shield negate my ability to blast the guy behind him with magic? Not to mention it negates half the bonus of Eye of the Bull.
ETheBoyce wrote:The Offensive options also allow noncaster units to outdamage Shockamancers. Hobobarbie is the same as Rapid Shot except it has a juice cost and ignores defense, but then archers also have a much higher combat score. Further the use of Envenom Weapon along with Blademaster/Rapid Shot give noncasters a much greater damage potential.
ETheBoyce wrote:On the caster side of things; The Healomancer spell Mass Ward has a wording error when it places a Lesser Ward on every unit in the stack, though the spell Lesser Ward does not exist so I assume you mean Minor Ward which makes the spell massively wasteful as it costs 35 juice while Minor Ward costs 2 juice and Ward costs 5 so a Caster could just cast Ward on everyone a turn before the battle and have everyone be twice as protected.
I was going to make a caster version of fumble, until I realized that only Shockamancy would be effected. Fizzle has been deleted.ETheBoyce wrote:Also the spell Fizzle ends halfway through the description.
Assume for now that they're about equivalent to a 4th to 6th level character, with unique abilities.ETheBoyce wrote:Hippymancy and Croakamancy seems okay, though Treant/Bone Horror Stats would be nice.
Shockamancers are limited in spell selection to give them the ability to purchase attack modifiers, since only Shockamancers, of all the casters, can really benefit from them.ETheBoyce wrote:Shockamancy has been nerfed majorly and is quite limited in spell selection compared to other casters. All other trees have at least 2 level 8 abilities, and 4Chan is really weak, I get 1d6 more damage and the ability to harm/stun my allies and an AOE size that probably only help when fighting unled stacks because I have such a low initiative order.
MarbitChow wrote:Basic Attacks
Attack: Deal Combat+2d6 Hits of damage to an adjacent opponent, reduced by their Defense.
Strike: Deal Combat+2d6 Hits of damage to an opponent who is either adjacent or separated by one rank, reduced by their Defense.
Fire: Deal Combat+2d6 Hits of damage to any opponent on screen that they have clear line-of-site* to, reduced by their Defense.
* : Ranged Line-of-site limit will be referred to as RLOS
[i][b]Base Stats: 1 Combat / 1 Defense / 4 Hits / Attack
Warrior (Costs 1 AP): Unit gains +4 Combat / +4 Defense / +10 Hits. 1 Additional AP at levels 2, 4, 6, 8.
Spearman (Costs 1 AP): Unit gains +4 Combat / +3 Defense / +8 Hits / Strike. 1 Additional AP at levels 2, 4, 6, 8.
Archer (Costs 2 AP): Unit gains +6 Combat / +2 Defense / +6 Hits / Fire. 1 Additional AP at levels 2, 4, 6, 8.
Flier (Costs 4 AP): Unit can fly. Unit gains +3 Combat / +3 Defense / +4 Hits / Fire. 1 Additional AP every level.
Caster (Costs 4 AP): Unit gains +2 Combat / Fire. Unit can select 1 Caster-like ability each level. Gains 8 Juice per level.
At levels 3, 6, and 9, casters gain a bonus caster-like ability. Casters do not gain any additional AP upon leveling.
BLANDCorporatio wrote:Huge disclaimer: the following post is fueled by nerd-rage, envy and resentment. It is a distraction from a system that, whatever warts it may have, just needs to be played as we should rather attempt to have fun than being bogged down in the minutiae. If for some inexplicable reason you still want to waste your time with this, read on ... (end disclaimer, begin disclaimed content)
Right-o, so I was seeing the fact that leadership offers the unit with it 1XP for every kill their stack makes; since one kill is worth 2XP, this got me truly and properly pissed off.
Also, I'm so pissed off at kill stealing that I started doing it myself; with a bit of luck, it will be Will's arrow, not T. Coil's spell, to lay a spearman to rest.
Users browsing this forum: Werebiscuit and 1 guest