


Swodaems wrote:As written, the rules state that everyone has the Attack ability. Does that still apply now that the attack ability is a prerequisite to other abilities?

Werebiscuit wrote:Having twice so far had my opponent taken after doing the major damage AND TAKING DAMAGE in THE PROCESS I can see where you're coming from with this.
I'm not sure it's the answer though it does have it's merits. However there may be IC repercusions for kill stealing that you've not considered.

MarbitChow wrote:There are units that have long-term survivability: heavy tank units and healers are near the top of that list.
The leadership XP bonus is designed to offset the limitation that a 3 AP ability only grants the leader +1 / +1 initially, so while it's almost required that a stack have a leader, the leader unit is gimped somewhat significantly because of that.


BLANDCorporatio wrote:Healers are notoriously first in line to die. Shoot the Medic first is THE viable tactic in any game where Medics exist.
BLANDCorporatio wrote:As for meaty tanks, okay, they're hard to kill ... for level 1 units. The fact that Mr Meatloaf doesn't spend time on offensive abilities, hoping instead to be a good shield for the glass cannons behind, is self-gimping because Meatloaf won't deliver the killing blow. And hence stagnate. And hence, become a less effective unit as the scenario increases in complexity.
BLANDCorporatio wrote:That's one way to look at it. Here's another. Every player who took Warrior, and to a much lesser extent Archer, did this self-lessly... I would have taken Leadership not for the 1XP from other people's kills, which wasn't even written anywhere, but because that +1/+1 bonus benefitted 8 units. A very selfless thing to do, kudos to Swodaems.

MarbitChow wrote:So, it's a bad thing that a selfless action had an unannounced and unasked-for benefit? It's unfair that a player who made a selfless act was rewarded for it?
MarbitChow wrote:As to Erfworld flavor, the campaign is running on an Erfworld forum, and was advertised as an Erfworld campaign. We can fine-tune rules and mechanics to make the game more fun (& fair), but that is one point that isn't open for discussion. I'm going to do my best to capture the Erfworld feel, period.



MarbitChow wrote:Players will also go to great lengths to protect their own healers.
MarbitChow wrote:With the Counter-Attack options, it seems like it's quite plausible to build a tank death machine that's really tough to kill. I don't think the situation is bad for the heavy units at all; they started off one-shot killing a unit, after all.


BLANDCorporatio wrote:If you'd have been honest that this was your intention all along, sure.
BLANDCorporatio wrote:And incidentally, that's one argument against random allocation of XPs. Maybe you want to encourage players to think about who kills who. Maybe you want to force players to think long and hard about how they'll earn their XP and coral them towards some offensive ability. All valid reasons. Flavour keeping is not.

MarbitChow wrote:Werebiscuit wrote:Having twice so far had my opponent taken after doing the major damage AND TAKING DAMAGE in THE PROCESS I can see where you're coming from with this.
I'm not sure it's the answer though it does have it's merits. However there may be IC repercusions for kill stealing that you've not considered.
But as for IC repercussions, you may just want to have a chat with your kill-stealers and let them know that, if some accommodations can't be made, you might just "run to protect the healer" and leave the other casters exposed...
MarbitChow wrote:The casters in the game are due to Erfworld flavor.
MarbitChow wrote:The Leadership effect is due to Erfworld flavor.
MarbitChow wrote:The hex boundary rules are due to Erfworld flavor.
MarbitChow wrote:for this game, my word is ultimately final.


BLANDCorporatio wrote:MarbitChow wrote:The Leadership effect is due to Erfworld flavor.
Which you've made flat additive, which is not Erf flavour any more than "turn based strategy" is.
BLANDCorporatio wrote:Awesome how hex(agon)s now have 4 sides, for ease of construction and use.
BLANDCorporatio wrote:You've departed from strict adherence to flavour where convenient whether you admit it or not. So don't use that as an argument.
BLANDCorporatio wrote:MarbitChow wrote:for this game, my word is ultimately final.
Took you long enough to notice. Yes it is final. And it would be better, imo, to pick a system and stick with it, rather than get bogged down in requests for feedback. Feedback will arrive during play, naturally.
BLANDCorporatio wrote:You also apparently don't grasp the meaning of loyal opposition, or else there wouldn't be that passive aggressive end to your post.



I consider this forgivable for casters because they have discipline specialization right in their name- essentially, they chose their entire main progression from a fairly broad array of options right at the start, with the only real variation in their secondary choices. There are thus five viable builds for the Caster class, which is plenty. Combat units were presented as having multiple viable builds as well, so while you can change the game design choice involved by making it optimal for every member of any given class to be built the same it goes rather sharply contrary to expectations.MarbitChow wrote:Re: Level Tax - I'm using this for Casters. I fully expect most casters to take spells with level restrictions as soon as they are available. Level-restricted abilities for melee work the same way.
AP value doesn't have to be exactly equivalent, but it should be close enough to equivalent that there are multiple reasonable choices in every case. Otherwise the whole system is a sham, a series of false choices with only one correct option that will lead to everyone wasting time contemplating rules that only lead to some people accidentally gimping themselves while those who don't want to be gimped wind up as identical clones- which is extremely poor game design and almost never fun for those involved. Either everyone should be identical clones from the start with a simplified ruleset which supports it or the variation should allow for multiple reasonable options.MarbitChow wrote:I'm not interested in making spending AP exactly equivalent, I'm just trying to create a simple mechanism for "You've leveled, you get to pick a new thing. Oh, and here are some things that are so cool that you'll give up 2 (or 3) other things to get it." I'm not running play-GURPS-by-post.
Your arbitrary final justification though "Erfworld flavor" is absurd, as even with no AP abilities at all level 8 characters could carve through piles of level 1's like cardboard thanks to massively superior Combat and Defense stats, and introducing powers which make the upper levels significantly better can be done through methods which aren't a level tax.MarbitChow wrote:And again, this goes to Erfworld flavor for its arbitrary final justification: level 8 characters are massively more powerful than level 1, so I want to be able to introduce powers that make upper levels significantly better.





Users browsing this forum: 0beron, Alternative13 and 1 guest