Darkness Rising

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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue May 22, 2012 6:51 am

OOC: In conclusion, unless we target the Archers with our fliers, there's little hope of reaching the wall with a sizeable force./OOC

OOC: recommend using the bats as shields for the Dark Fliers. Note that an Archer has effectively 18 hits, because of Ward. Note that the damage a Flier may inflict is 3-13, average 8. Ie, 3 Fliers are expected to be needed to croak one Archer./OOC

OOC: further, assuming some tactical savvy of the enemy, it's unwise to bring our Healer or Shockamancer in the field, as they pose a danger to the Wall (healer, indirectly) and can easily be croaked./OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby HerbieRai » Tue May 22, 2012 7:25 am

OOC: From what I'm hearing, the fliers will move up surrounding Brickabat swarms to absorb fire, then fire on the archers. Next, the ram will move into and up to the tower with help of as many people as possible. That only leaves the question of who is clearing out the Gumps outside the gate? Also, should the fliers target the leadership/ healomancer before the archers? That way we'd be able to take down the ward/ heals and leadership bonuses.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue May 22, 2012 7:32 am

OOC: as I see it, there'd be no chance for our Fliers to take on the Archers in a pitched battle. What we can do, the only thing we can do, really, is spam their defenses. Send in the rams with their guards, while the Fliers chip at the Archers. Hopefully, the elves will target the siege, because our fliers would quickly be toast otherwise. Even so, we'd gain some more time to bring the rams to the wall./OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Tue May 22, 2012 7:48 am

OOC : Note Their healer has mass revitalize and 32 juice. He can undo quite a bit of damage. On average our fliers will will do 8 damage to an archer or 4 to the healer. Not enough to take an archer out. Their archers will average 10 damage on our fliers taking out one flier per shot and they have double the number of shots. We must give them other targets.
Their caster has 16 hits + 8 Ward meaning we would have to deal 24 damage to take him out. i.e. 6 fliers would need to target him. This leaves 3 (including cupid )to take out an archer. So we have a choice Healer & archer or 3 archers as targets /OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue May 22, 2012 7:50 am

OOC: if they kill our fliers, that's fine. It means they stay away from targetting the ram carriers. Mind you, I expect the enemy to ignore the Fliers and target the rams and their guards, regardless./OOC

OOC: also, all that juice and mass revitalize is one reason why I'd say, shoot the Medic first. Incapacitate her./OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue May 22, 2012 7:54 am

OOC: so to be clear. We'd need all our warriors, rams and spearmen, marching toward the walls using guard/bodyguard etc. We'd also need to chip away at their units in any way possible, for example with Fliers protected by Bats./OOC

OOC: casters like the Shockamancer and our Healer are prime targets and given the number of Archers, aren't safe right now. OTOH, a sane opponent would ignore the Croakamancer, as there are more urgent targets around- at least, until the first unit is killed./OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Tue May 22, 2012 8:21 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:OOC: so to be clear. We'd need all our warriors, rams and spearmen, marching toward the walls using guard/bodyguard etc. We'd also need to chip away at their units in any way possible, for example with Fliers protected by Bats./OOC


OOC: Not necessarily all our rams but enough to give them a choice of targets otherwise we are in agreement.

BLANDCorporatio wrote:OOC: casters like the Shockamancer and our Healer are prime targets and given the number of Archers, aren't safe right now. OTOH, a sane opponent would ignore the Croakamancer, as there are more urgent targets around- at least, until the first unit is killed./OOC


OOC: Note we can screen all our fliers in 3 abreast using the swarms or we can go 2 abreast and also screen one caster. Give that caster a body guard spearman and he becomes less of a choice

BLANDCorporatio wrote:OOC: recommend using the bats as shields for the Dark Fliers. Note that an Archer has effectively 18 hits, because of Ward. Note that the damage a Flier may inflict is 3-13, average 8. Ie, 3 Fliers are expected to be needed to croak one Archer./OOC


OOC: That is why the caster becomes the prime target in preference to any archer
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue May 22, 2012 8:42 am

OOC: while granted, I haven't been entirely rigurous with the average/expected damage calc, I'd like everyone to at least try to make an effort when presenting tactics OOC. For example:

Werebiscuit wrote:Not necessarily all our rams but enough to give them a choice of targets otherwise we are in agreement.


I've done the math. ALL our rams are needed to have any chance of one getting to the wall, and that's under as heavy a protection as we can manage.

Werebiscuit wrote:Note we can screen all our fliers in 3 abreast using the swarms or we can go 2 abreast and also screen one caster. Give that caster a body guard spearman and he becomes less of a choice


One archer kills a spearman, one kills a bat. Third kills the caster. The enemy wants to minimize damage done to the walls. So Shockamancer must die as he can target the walls without getting to them, Healomancer must die because s/he may improve survivability of our units. Fourteen archers WILL croak our casters, if they set their mind to it, in the first turn. This leaves three turns to whittle away at the siege, which, while not enough to disable it as opposed to the original scenario, are quite enough to eliminate about 5 to 6 of the ram carriers- assuming no damage dealt to the Archers in the meantime./OOC

OOC: it's not clear which way the enemy will target. That said, with 14 Archers, they have enough firepower to croak all 8 spearmen, and six of the bats. Unless we want to guard only the casters with those units, it's not safe for them to be in the field./OOC

OOC: an Archer must be brought to -5 in order to be killed for good, beyond healer intervention. 4 Fliers just might pull that off. So we stand a good chance, if we go infatry/sige (and hope the archers target them), then fliers, of reducing the number of archers to 12 after the first turn. Second turn, we wait until archers fire, then depending of how many guarding warriors/spearmen are left, may send in the casters, they'll have move enough to reach the infantry/siege. Shocka would claim an archer, croaka would make some corpses move./OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue May 22, 2012 8:48 am

OOC: no, wait, Archers aren't heroic. So bringing them to 0 is enough to croak them. And once croaked, Healer can't bring them back. So we stand a better than thought of chance to remove two archers from the battle, during the first turn, using our fliers. Three fliers are expected to be needed to croak one archer./OOC

OOC: alternatively, an expected 5 fliers are needed to knock out the Healer. Whether she stays knocked out depends on the enemy having heal scrolls handy./OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Tue May 22, 2012 9:06 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote: EDIT added OOC for clarity {OOC}:One archer kills a spearman, one kills a bat. Third kills the caster. The enemy wants to minimize damage done to the walls. So Shockamancer must die as he can target the walls without getting to them, Healomancer must die because s/he may improve survivability of our units. Fourteen archers WILL croak our casters, if they set their mind to it, in the first turn. This leaves three turns to whittle away at the siege, which, while not enough to disable it as opposed to the original scenario, are quite enough to eliminate about 5 to 6 of the ram carriers- assuming no damage dealt to the Archers in the meantime./OOC


OOC :it depends on how you interpret this
Darkness Units rules wrote:Brickabat Swarm can negate a single Fire attack against any adjacent target, at the cost of 1 Hit. [Immunities: Healamancy]


We have yet to find out if the swarm is attacked whether it swallows up the attack for the cost of a hit .
One interpretation of it is archer attacks a spearman, swarm reduces by one hit, archer attacks a bat, swarm reduces by another hit, archer attacks a caster swarm reduces by a third hit...and so on... /OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby HerbieRai » Tue May 22, 2012 9:20 am

OOC: So the actions should go as follows, Siege moves in with bodyguard around (and bat swarms?). Then fliers move in and fire. If the archers fired at the siege, then the fliers can move full forward for more manuverablitity next turn. If the archers haven't fired they will surround the bats to have them absorb damage.

Lastly, if the archers have fired, the casters move in and do their thing.

The questions I see are A) when do the bats come in, and where do they go so they can screen as many units as possible. And B) who do the fliers target. I'd vote for the caster so we don't have all our damage negated this turn, and it will take the Wards down. Also remember Cupid is a flier, so we have 9 total.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Tue May 22, 2012 9:26 am

Werebiscuit wrote:OOC : Their caster has 16 hits + 8 Ward meaning we would have to deal 24 damage to take him out. i.e. 6 fliers would need to target him. This leaves 3 (including cupid )to take out an archer. So we have a choice Healer & archer or 3 archers as targets /OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby The Colonel » Tue May 22, 2012 10:06 am

Okay, I bring as many uncroaked up as possible. But as what? Bodyguards?
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Tue May 22, 2012 10:08 am

The Colonel wrote:Okay, I bring as many uncroaked up as possible. But as what? Bodyguards?



OOC : thats 2 skeletons...who are immune to fire actions. We need archers.
{EDIT} ok maybe not immune to fire actions but harder to damage with arrows according to Marbit./OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Tue May 22, 2012 10:13 am

MarbitChow wrote:
The Colonel wrote:what is bone collector?
I think fix the dead so I can start with fresh uncroaked

Sorry - Bone Puppeteer, not collector. It allows you to make skeletons w/ 3 AP, which means you could make them as a Warrior, Spearman, or Archer. Skeletons are also harder to damage with arrows..
You'll already start with 'fresh' uncroaked - all units heal at the start of a new turn, and you'll be able to make 2 'mostly fresh' undead plus 2 or 3 kinda decayed at the beginning of the next scenario.
I'm going to update the character creation rules some time this weekend.


OOC : Bold & underline added for emphasis /OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby MarbitChow » Tue May 22, 2012 10:15 am

Swodaems wrote:Questions: Does my leadership bonus apply to all our troops or just to our characters? (Same for the enemy leader.)

Leadership applies to a single stack, which is you plus 7 other units of your choosing. The same applies to the enemy leader. At present, it is safe to assume that he's stacked with the healer, the treants, plus 4 archers. You can freely restack once per turn, and the leadership bonus applies immediately at the start of the turn, just like the Attack Modifiers.

Swodaems wrote:If an enemy were to directly attack a brick bat swarm, what would happen? (Depending on rules interpretation, a single archer could take out an entire brick bat swarm.)

I realized after I posted that I'd set up the bats so that you couldn't game them, but forgot to prevent me from gaming them. (Damn, it's hard trying to catch yourself cheating...) Brickabat's special will be changed so that they cannot be targeted by Strike, Fire, or non-AoE Spells. 'Attack' actions will affect them normally, as will area-of-effect (AoE) spells like 4Chan.

Swodaems wrote:When we open that door, will we be revealing a lower level of the building or do we just sort of teleport to the top of the ladder? (I've played alot of Fire Emblem. That building just screams hidden enemies to me.)

You will reveal the lower level of the building.

Swodaems wrote:If we lose one of the ram carriers, what exactly can we draft to replace him?

Any 4 units (except the Brickabats) can be used to wield a ram, including fliers. Fliers carrying the ram can move 8 squares instead of 5, but they lose their Flight Elevation Bonus if they attack the door or walls.

Swodaems wrote:We don't have RLOS on the caster from where we are, what about her on us?

In all cases, if you don't have RLOS on a unit, they do not have it on you.

Swodaems wrote:If Bill were select dance-fighting as his ability of choice for those skeletons, would that help out any living player who decided to take the dance fighting special? (I never spent the AP I got from leveling to 2, and I was thinking dance-fighting may be a good choice, but no one else has it yet.)

Good question. Yes, skeletons can take dance fighting, but note that dance-fighting bonus is +1 per 2 units involved, rounded down. You plus a single skeleton would be enough for the basic bonus, but 2 skeletons won't change that.

Swodaems wrote:Question to my fellow players: How about a two for one capturing special? Let's try to capture the enemy Leadership as well. It'll be tougher, but that means more fun. (The archers are even better targets for capture because we could better use them to defend this place in the next battle the opening refered to. Maybe if we break down the door with enough strength left and offer terms, we be able to grab them all. The battle will be pretty much decided at that point any way.)

Note that currently, the archers are not heroic, at least until one of them gains enough XP from croaking your men to do so.

The Colonel wrote:Can we lift the archers with fliers?

Not unless the archers are willing or incapacitated / dead.

Werebiscuit wrote:( OOC Are our Fliers the same movement as Cupid ? i.e. move 12. What about the Brickbats ? Move 12 ? Skeleton move would be 8 ?

Yes, Fliers and Brickabats are Move 12, and Skeltons 8 (unless carrying a Ram - see above). Brickabats cannot carry the Ram.

Werebiscuit wrote: Will fliers be able to block RLOS against elevated positons on ground troops ?

Fliers cannot block RLOS, but can grant the +4 Cover bonus to ground units if they choose to give up their own Elevation bonus.

BLANDCorporatio wrote:OOC: alternatively, an expected 5 fliers are needed to knock out the Healer. Whether she stays knocked out depends on the enemy having heal scrolls handy./OOC

Please note that only casters can use scrolls. Unless there is a hidden caster on the field, a heal scroll will not be able to revive the Healer.

Werebiscuit wrote: Am I right in thinking that the Brickabats can absorb 8 fire actions before disbanding, as that is the way it reads ? /OOC)

Yes. In addition, see the note above - Brickabats cannot be targeted directly by ranged non-AoE actions.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue May 22, 2012 10:28 am

OOC:

MarbitChow wrote:I realized after I posted that I'd set up the bats so that you couldn't game them, but forgot to prevent me from gaming them. (Damn, it's hard trying to catch yourself cheating...) Brickabat's special will be changed so that they cannot be targeted by Strike, Fire, or non-AoE Spells. 'Attack' actions will affect them normally, as will area-of-effect (AoE) spells like 4Chan.


This changes everything. Then, since we have 8 bats, we can have them guard (or whatever it's called) the Ram carriers. The Archers then, should they target the carriers, would need 8+(about)6 shots per carrier, or 8*14=112 shots. Since 14 archers are present, they can deliver these in 8 turns. Alternatively, in four turns the Archers can deliver 56 shots, not quite enough to croak all bats.

Therefore bats alone, under the new rules, make the ram carriers untouchable. Since those units will live whatever the archers do, they'll target anything else that is available, so as to reduce the force to contend with once the walls, inevitably, get broken.

Which means, in this case, that sending anything other than bats and siege is an invitation to have those things croaked./OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Tue May 22, 2012 10:31 am

OOC :*coughs* We have 3 stacks of 8 Bats.... ...check your math :P / OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue May 22, 2012 10:39 am

OOC:

Werebiscuit wrote:OOC :*coughs* We have 3 stacks of 8 Bats.... ...check your math :P / OOC


So we do. *phew* it looked like this would be too easy for a second. Okay, in that case, the analysis of before the rule announcement is valid. Get the ram carriers, bodyguard them with spearmen, and use the warriors as extra guards.

Send them in on the first turn. Wait for them to walk under enemy fire. Then send in the fliers. To debate: attempt to kill 3 archers (who as far as we know not even the Healer will be able to bring back) OR incapacitate the healer and croak an archer. If we do send fliers in, one Bat Swarm must protect Cupid.

This leaves two extra Bat Swarms. Recommend using one for our leader, who if possible should stack with cupid and as many fliers as possible, to increase the damage we deal (and XPs we gain, incidentally, my Jimmies).

Second turn, have the infantry wait until the Archers fire, whether at Fliers (who'll target more Archers) or siege. Send in one caster, with the last Bat Swarm. Preferably the croakamancer. Use corpses in the city, have them attack who's inside. Merge the Croakamancer with the Siege clump, and keep marching to the walls. But I think we'll need to reconsider tactics about now, depending on results.
/OOC
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby HerbieRai » Tue May 22, 2012 10:51 am

If the Bats are flying above teh siege, can they still protect them as if they are adjacent?

If so, we can move both bats in with the siege, and then have the fliers go around them as well, this way we can all be better protected.
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