The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

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The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby Hybridan » Wed May 06, 2009 1:43 pm

So, I would be curious to hear about the reactions to the differences in appearance between the published raised Ansom and the "lost art version" posted on the home page of the website. It would be interesting to here answers to this question from an aesthetic, a style and a "how does it work with the throughline" type discussion. If this topic is uninteresting or has already been started elsewhere, please feel free to eliminate.
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby raphfrk » Wed May 06, 2009 1:58 pm

I think the updated version makes the pliers more powerful. It is a raise dead spell, rather than just a high strength uncroak.
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Re: The subtle (decrypted) and not so subtle (uncroaked) Ansom

Postby lovelyluthien » Wed May 06, 2009 4:03 pm

Exactly. Also, the decrypted design makes Ansom seem more like a person. Of course it would still become clear as he is very articulate instead of uttering "Pie!", but this way his appearance reflects that he retains a personality. Possibly not his personality (I instantly liked decrypted Ansom, which was a radical change), but a personality nevertheless.
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Re: The subtle (decrypted) and not so subtle (uncroaked) Ansom

Postby SteveMB » Wed May 06, 2009 4:27 pm

lovelyluthien wrote:Exactly. Also, the decrypted design makes Ansom seem more like a person. Of course it would still become clear as he is very articulate instead of uttering "Pie!", but this way his appearance reflects that he retains a personality. Possibly not his personality (I instantly liked decrypted Ansom, which was a radical change), but a personality nevertheless.

I'm not sure it's so much a change in personality as a change in viewpoint. If anything, he seems more hardcore than ever about upholding the Will Of The Titans[tm]; he's just changed his concept of what it is the Titans want.
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby BarGamer » Wed May 06, 2009 10:00 pm

Planting epileptic twees: The authors have really let something slip, here. The Arkenplier's creature focus is not Uncroaked... But the entire Side of Transylvito, which Ansom clearly resembled with his glowing red eyes, black motif, and unhealthy-looking skin. In fact, that was one of the reasons why Vinny and, by association, Transylvito joined the Coalition: Even when not attuned, the bearer of the ArkenPliers can inspire feelings of Loyalty, Obedience, and Duty (LOaD) in Transylvito units. This is proved by Panel 9 of Page 42.

I mean, Uncroaked are alright, but thinking, active Sides in your Alliance are something else, as proved by the Archon's similar LOaD to Charlie. In addition to being able to be popped like normal units, Transylvito units can also 'convert' others to their Side like Caesar Borgata threatened to do to Jillian in the last comic that he was featured in, by drinking the victim's blood, and making them drink Transylvito blood. If a unit is not Uncroaked, and another Transylvito unit is not nearby to assist in this, the ArkenPliers can do this directly by physically (Ansom's probable favored tactic)or Magically (Wanda's probable favored tactic) pulling on the victim's canines, making them longer.
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby Hybridan » Wed May 06, 2009 10:20 pm

Thanks to all for the interesting comments, I have already learned a good deal. I personally much prefer the look and feel of what actually went into the comic, as opposed to the "lost" art. I also like that the collaborators acknowledged needing to work through some differences in order to be on the same page.
I agree with the reply above that it only seems that Ansoms desire to follow the will of the Titans has only increased, although he may now think very differently how he interprets their agenda.

But how do people feel about the aesthetics of both. Despite what I have said above, I think the "lost" version is actually a more sophisticated piece of panel art.
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby Infidel » Wed May 06, 2009 10:33 pm

BarGamer wrote:Planting epileptic twees: The authors have really let something slip, here. The Arkenplier's creature focus is not Uncroaked... But the entire Side of Transylvito, which Ansom clearly resembled with his glowing red eyes, black motif, and unhealthy-looking skin. In fact, that was one of the reasons why Vinny and, by association, Transylvito joined the Coalition: Even when not attuned, the bearer of the ArkenPliers can inspire feelings of Loyalty, Obedience, and Duty (LOaD) in Transylvito units. This is proved by Panel 9 of Page 42.


I don't see how panel 9 proves your point at all. Vinnie and Ansom were supposed to be old pals, and panel 9 was obviously a friendly decline to answer, not an artifact backed order.
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby Erik » Thu May 07, 2009 2:42 am

Infidel wrote:
BarGamer wrote:Planting epileptic twees: The authors have really let something slip, here. The Arkenplier's creature focus is not Uncroaked... But the entire Side of Transylvito, which Ansom clearly resembled with his glowing red eyes, black motif, and unhealthy-looking skin. In fact, that was one of the reasons why Vinny and, by association, Transylvito joined the Coalition: Even when not attuned, the bearer of the ArkenPliers can inspire feelings of Loyalty, Obedience, and Duty (LOaD) in Transylvito units. This is proved by Panel 9 of Page 42.


I don't see how panel 9 proves your point at all. Vinnie and Ansom were supposed to be old pals, and panel 9 was obviously a friendly decline to answer, not an artifact backed order.

Seconded.
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby Vordrax » Thu May 07, 2009 8:17 am

BarGamer wrote:In addition to being able to be popped like normal units, Transylvito units can also 'convert' others to their Side like Caesar Borgata threatened to do to Jillian in the last comic that he was featured in, by drinking the victim's blood, and making them drink Transylvito blood. If a unit is not Uncroaked, and another Transylvito unit is not nearby to assist in this, the ArkenPliers can do this directly by physically (Ansom's probable favored tactic)or Magically (Wanda's probable favored tactic) pulling on the victim's canines, making them longer.


I think you're reading an awful lot into "if you break your alliance right now, we will drink your blood over a peppy campfire tune." It doesn't say anything about converting people, or even about drinking Transylvito blood. Unless this was mentioned somewhere else, it seems like a stretch. It could just as easily mean that they're going to kill her.
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby Darkside007 » Thu May 07, 2009 10:01 pm

Caeser's threat is clearly "Step off or die"
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby Mikalyaran » Thu May 07, 2009 10:42 pm

The transylvito thing makes very little sense. I can see support for it in the art a little bit but as its been mentioned the art was something that got worked over and changed. Thus not even very strong support. As also mentioned Caesar never threatens to make her bring blood just to kill her. Finally panel 9 shows only a unit who is subordinate to Ansom in the coalition having a privilege revoked. Nothing to do with the pliers.

That all being said I really like the art for decrypted Ansom and the other decrypted units. It gives them a strongly different feel from normal uncroaked. Very appropriate for a unit unique to a powerful artifact.
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby Mr Luckamancy » Thu May 07, 2009 11:47 pm

The visual difference between a decrypted unit and an uncroaked one seems to indicate that the decrypts are actually alive in some form and not just reanimated corpses. This makes sense considering that traditional Croakamancy is a Naughtymancy discipline and isn't associated with the life element, just matter and motion; uncroaked units move, but their movements and actions are either the result of their orders or are merely reflexes (example: Lord Manpower tasted key-lime pie when the arrow hit him, his corpse was then obsessed with pie), they have no soul, or life as it were.
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby BarGamer » Fri May 08, 2009 2:11 am

... None of you know what an epileptic tree is, do you?
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby Mikalyaran » Fri May 08, 2009 3:21 am

I did, in fact, not know. Thanks for the link. I don't watch tv so tropes slip past me.
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby RebelWulf » Fri May 08, 2009 6:08 am

Huh, i didn't know that either. My best guess was

"This is an Epileptic Tree, because its Shaky at Best"
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby Infidel » Fri May 08, 2009 1:52 pm

BarGamer wrote:... None of you know what an epileptic tree is, do you?


Ahh, nope, you caught me. Thanks for the link :)
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby konmanrocks » Fri May 08, 2009 3:05 pm

BarGamer wrote:Planting epileptic twees: The authors have really let something slip, here. The Arkenplier's creature focus is not Uncroaked... But the entire Side of Transylvito, which Ansom clearly resembled with his glowing red eyes, black motif, and unhealthy-looking skin. In fact, that was one of the reasons why Vinny and, by association, Transylvito joined the Coalition: Even when not attuned, the bearer of the ArkenPliers can inspire feelings of Loyalty, Obedience, and Duty (LOaD) in Transylvito units. This is proved by Panel 9 of Page 42.

of cource they inspire loyalty, dont they give for a higher bonus in leadership, wouldnt that somewhat correspond?
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Re: The subtle and not so subtle uncroaked Ansom

Postby BarGamer » Fri May 08, 2009 11:14 pm

Parson's sword had a leadership ability, on top of Parson's natural 2. Wanda used to lead uncroaked, but she was pretty far up there in Stanley's inner circle anyways, as well as being able to lead Stanley in doing what she wanted, to some degree. So her leadership bonus is demonstratively high. Ansom WAS a Coalition leader, though how much of that was his charisma, how much was inherited as part of being a Royal, and how much was some latent ability of the ArkenPliers is unknown. Charlie was able to lead the Archons, and they had to try to break one of his "Rules." It very well may correspond that having an ArkenTool gave you a Leadership bonus, but we don't know for sure. Nice theory, though.
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