Summer Updates - 021

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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby TheWombat » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:16 pm

I'm really starting to get the suspicion that most unit types come in standard and upgraded forms...

Gwiffons -> Megalogwiffs
Goyles -> Gurgoyles
Gobwins -> Hobgobwins

I wonder if this is a standard rule in Erf?
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby BarGamer » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:28 pm

Ever played Heroes of Might and Magic? Lots of those units came in upgraded forms, too. I couldn't even begin to guess where the inspiration/joke is in "megalogwiff," though. Maybe Power Rangers...?
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby DevilDan » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:30 pm

TheWombat wrote:I'm really starting to get the suspicion that most unit types come in standard and upgraded forms...

Gwiffons -> Megalogwiffs
Goyles -> Gurgoyles
Gobwins -> Hobgobwins

I wonder if this is a standard rule in Erf?


Variations on existing units are not a new thing to games. I think I missed the part where a clear distinction was made between Goyles and Guard Goyles.

I'm sure you know that hobgoblins are also part of Earth myths and are feature in our fiction and games too.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby SMD » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:37 pm

We don't know much about Caesar, but we know that Don King is a no dummy. Based on that, I'm fairly certain that he didn't choose Caesar solely on his level or his capabilities on the battlefield.


Caesar has displayed a lack of manners, patience and appreciation of the overall picture. Don has even mentioned that he's not sure Caesar is the proper person to be heir. He's a great fighter, but it's the small(and large) things that make a difference in a potential ruler. I'd like to see Vinny in the position, personally.

Why doe we assume that this is all Wanda's handiwork? We haven't really seen her pushing Stanley in this direction. I'm sure that she'd counsel more cautious routes every time—although she has shown her own penchant for reckless behavior.


Because she said so, here. The methods didn't really bother her as long as they went somewhere...which when they weren't, she found the summoning spell for Parson. She's really been the master player here.

That could be said for nearly every character. Boopin' prophecies and magic.


It could...but I was addressing Moose's claim that Stanley is some sort of self-made man. He's barely relevant, and he's starting to see that.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby Unclever title » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:01 pm

Lothmar wrote:It's only the ruler of a side in general that has true and unhindered 'free will' and 'choice'.

I don't know about that at this point, Jillian is a barbarian, technically has no side so is her own master. Shouldn't she be displaying qualities of free will then? I think this update has been strongly hinting that the fact of her being a royal kind of unit seems to have restrictions on the things she does or say and even her thought processes despite the fact that she has been trying to reject that part of herself for a long time. The "natural thinkamancy" affecting royals, probably even ruling royals that I'm talking about would be resultant from the Titans themselves directly or indirectly from the natural mechanics of Erfworld. Part of the "mandate to rule" I imagine comes with conditioning to think in a particular fashion, but like other forms of thinkamancy it's not 100% controlling but much more subtle. Only now that Jillian is considering the reclamation of Faq ( 1st time with us having a window into her head and despite trying to think of other options) "another part of her" is instinctively looking to how to get the job done.

Considering the threefold part to the sword given to Parson by the summoning spell, "Leadership, combat, ruthlessness" are a magical bonus could not the "Stronger, smarter, and more morally fit" be due to Erfworld magic as well? Granted that might be reading too much into it. Of course thinkamancy is subtle so it won't make a cruel tyrant a benevolent king so not all royals are equal. http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/ ... FGK_91.jpg

The idea here is that they are bred to rule, born to rule. Considering Erf pops units with stats, knowledge, and abilities already intact I can only assume that natural magic would fall under this category as well. Stanley by contrast was not born with such bonuses or the same restrictions as is evidenced by the fact that he rarely if ever would think of his troops.*

Moving on:

I think Parson's effect on things (both in having no knowledge of Erfworld and in making dishonorable attacks) has started to turn Stanley to looking out for his troops, well at least Parson, it may make him a better ruler in the long run.

I think the process of making a unit Heir designate is twofold, one it removes the banish when the ruler croaks requirement on that unit which royals lack intrinsically, and two it likely removes the natural thinkamancy upon that unit as well, thereby enabling them to disobey the ruler and even assassinate their ruler. If that wasn't possible Ansom's accusations of regicide would never have been taken seriously. As such in doing this the ruler puts an immense amount of trust in that unit both to lead when the ruler is croaked and gone or in any other situation necessary, and also not to stab him in the back at the first opportunity.

Edit: *Maybe this is why Stanley got his Arkentool to begin with, the Titans seeing he was going to rule thought he needed some divine help so they gave him the Arkenhammer. Though I think that particular theory is pretty weak.
Last edited by Unclever title on Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:04 pm

BarGamer wrote:Ever played Heroes of Might and Magic? Lots of those units came in upgraded forms, too. I couldn't even begin to guess where the inspiration/joke is in "megalogwiff," though. Maybe Power Rangers...?


I think Megalogwiff mainly refers to the Megalodon, a pretty big shark from prehistoric times. I expect the Megalogwiffs to be really big and mean.

SMD wrote:Caesar has displayed a lack of manners, patience and appreciation of the overall picture. Don has even mentioned that he's not sure Caesar is the proper person to be heir. He's a great fighter, but it's the small(and large) things that make a difference in a potential ruler. I'd like to see Vinny in the position, personally.


Well Ceasar has a certain harsh attitude, but that doesn't make him a bad leader. He is a competent fighter, and does listen to advice. Jillian nearly attacked him after hearing about Ansom, but Caesar followed Vinnies advice and let her go. That speaks for him.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby The Old Hack » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:13 pm

My respect for the Don is growing by leaps and bounds. In truth, he makes me think of a much older, wiser and sadder Vinnie. I think it is safe to say that he will be one of the most dangerous opponents Parson will have to face in the immediate future.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby BarGamer » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:16 pm

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:I think Megalogwiff mainly refers to the Megalodon, a pretty big shark from prehistoric times. I expect the Megalogwiffs to be really big and mean.


MegaloDons attack you mentally and morally, and if that doesn't work, tea sets. Barbarians in the hex spontaneously become Royal Pains in the Boops and join their stack. Megalogwiffs, on the other hand, look like a Big Red Chicken, but anyone riding them has to dress up like a redneck, and battlecries are as likely to make you groan as laugh.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby joosy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:11 pm

Now, just for balance, we need a slew of updates with fantastic drawings, images, and eye candy with only a small amount of accompanying text.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby Dahak » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:24 pm

BarGamer wrote:Ever played Heroes of Might and Magic? Lots of those units came in upgraded forms, too. I couldn't even begin to guess where the inspiration/joke is in "megalogwiff," though. Maybe Power Rangers...?


or a Megalodon.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby Anton Gaist » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:23 pm

Actually, I thought of Digimon when I heard of Megalogwiffs. Or at least the old Digimons series I used to watch, I don't know how the naming goes now if the series is still running, but back then I remember digivolving added a Mega- or Metal- or War- or something like that.

But thanks for the Megalodon visual, I imagined an oversized marshmallow peep biting a dwagon's head off.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby cloudbreaker » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:02 pm

I'm really hoping that one of the next updates happens at the moment when Jillian's status goes from being Princess to Queen. I think it would be interesting to find out what sorts of mental drop-down menues suddenly appear in her head. Unit production, treasury, the "delete unit" option, etc.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby moose o death » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:42 pm

SMD wrote:It could...but I was addressing Moose's claim that Stanley is some sort of self-made man. He's barely relevant, and he's starting to see that.

you just don't like him, he's stronger in a fight than much larger forces brought against him. he's an awful leader i will agree. but military might has put far worse morons in charge of large empires throughout our own history. he has the strength and he's using it to make gains. the other kingdoms fear that.

if they didn't...tv would be rushing into that multi hex trap to clean up the leftovers.

wanda is running the show, wanda put stanley in charge, wanda is the situation happening at faq. i wont even say brains behind it as she really isn't even that, she manipulated the situation to her advantage, but she did so at the expense of her and everyone around her's safety. even broken on the floor and dying she was more focussed on that pair of pliers than survival. GK is about to become very interesting. either wanda has further plans AFTER attuning she hasn't explained yet. or their is a 4 way power struggle brewing for what to do next. wanda, stanley, ansom and parson. wanda will want more troops to decrypt i guess, stanley will want his cities back, ansom may be wanting something between those two. parson will want time to learn more about the world he exists in now.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby Binty » Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:38 am

It appears to me that heirs are not subject to loyalty - once you are designated heir to can lead a coup attempt. This is how Stanley was able to engineer his coup.

I predict TV will be investing money into Faq to build it up quickly. It will be a long time before TV asks for money back.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby moose o death » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:39 am

stanley couldn't engineer a stick figure drawing. the likelihood is stanley, starting life on erf as a piker, has a stupidly high loyalty level. i'll theorise* getting upgraded only adds to your stat level which is how he has become so strong (piker->warlord->attuned->chiefwarlord->heir->overlord) he's had six class upgrades. where as most units could never really see more than two or three (popped as warlord to chiefwarlord. popped as heir to ruler, popped as unit to warlord, the chances of one unit going from shit kicker to overlord is nigh unthinkable)

wanda however has stated quite clearly her loyalty is not to stanley, she has betrayed entire kingdoms for an arkentool, and putting the owner of the one she can't have on the throne and then convincing him he needs all of them because it's the titans will, IS the way to bring all of the known things to you.

i don't think it's unlikely she's already tried stealing stanley's tool and found it wouldn't attune.

* theorise means i have as much proof for, as you have against, so until stated otherwise it's the vehicle of my theory. you can disagree all you like. but neither of us is right for the foreseeable future.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby SteveMB » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:52 am

Unclever title wrote:But what of nonRoyal Overlords? They aren't bent to think like Royals, we may not know enough about Caesar (least I'd have to reread his lines in a new light, still he's not overlord yet...)

Learning that Caesar Borgata is only very minor nobility certainly puts a new light on his cynical tone about the new increased emphasis on the proprieties. ("But a princess. Don King tells me we're supposed to care about that now." Caesar punctuated this last statement by raising his own eyebrow.)
Is this a real holy war, or just a bunch of deluded boopholes croaking each other?
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby HandofShadows » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:05 am

In an odd way Jillian would like to be on Abby Janis's side. This is all going to play out in a VERY interesting way. :)
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby Binty » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:33 pm

moose o death wrote:stanley couldn't engineer a stick figure drawing. [/color]


I doubt Stanley's hatred of Royals only developed after he became Overlord. Wanda may have helped him achieve it, even gave him the plan, but I seriously doubt he was uninvolved in the death of Saline IV - even if his only action was to be away while it happened.

Imo it seems clear that like Overlords, heirs have free will - unlike most units belonging to a side. Heirs can attempt coups.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby tholofonos » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:26 pm

BarGamer wrote:Ever played Heroes of Might and Magic? Lots of those units came in upgraded forms, too. I couldn't even begin to guess where the inspiration/joke is in "megalogwiff," though. Maybe Power Rangers...?


Nothing so intricate. Greek word "megalo" simply means "big." From which we derive Megalodon (as has been mentioned) and the prefix "mega-" for anything large.
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Re: Summer Updates - 021

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:48 pm

Binty wrote:I doubt Stanley's hatred of Royals only developed after he became Overlord.


I think Stanley's hatred of royals stems from the simple fact that he can't be one.
I suspect that it didn't matter to him before he became an Overlord

Stanley is a little man who wishes he was bigger.
If the royals welcomed him, I suspect he'd play right along, but they won't, because he wasn't popped noble.

This is much like aristocrats in our world, who looked down on meritocrats (the merchant class, for example) who may have accumulated far more wealth, but never had a title.
Unfortunately for Stanley, he can't buy or marry into a title; he can't "become" noble.

Once he decides that the Arkenhammer makes him 'more than noble', he has to hate or pity Charlie, because Charlie is also attuned, but bows to the existing nobles (while robbing them blind, in many cases).
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