Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby Lamech » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:31 am

0beron wrote:
Lamech wrote:Also when you can bring 8 casters to bear on a target.

Yeaaaaaah, cus a Lookamancer, Moneymancer, and Signamancer will be so useful in combat....LOL

I the signamancer and moneymancer would be pretty useless. I mean not hatamancer useless, but almost. More to the point even if they can't use their abilities directly they can still fire the shockamancer's scrolls and I assume there will be a lot of those since he has had how many turns to stockpile them? Besides pretty much every single caster we have seen has been devastating in combat, including casters that would seem to have no offensive abilities just from the description.

Florist: Shuts down a hex. Also poison.
Hatamancer: Hat-plosion
Dirtamancer: Wiped a whole army out (the tunnels not the volcano)
Thinkamancer: See Parson's worries about the GMTA
Croakamancer: Duh
Shockamancer: Duh
Dollamancer: Makes weapons/golems
Foolamancer: See Jack
Predictamancer: Never Miss
Luckamancer: Super Crits
Dittomancer: Quadruple arrows!
Healomancer: Duh
Turnamancer: Your warlord? Its our warlord.
Lamech
 
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby 0beron » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:47 am

Well actually none of the casters you listed are ones I would have considered useless in combat. The Florist "shut down a hex" is a no-brainer. However I'm still having trouble seeing how the Moneymancer will be useful. Lookamancer, okay I could perhaps see him bypassing any veils, or knowing where all the enemy units are. And I just remembered we know Signamancy was involved in the Laurel of Napster, so maybe he'd be able to identify ideal targets to focus on. But Money.....? I'm not seeing it haha.

Although maybe HE is what would allow them to live without income for 20 turns. He might be burnt out of juice because he's using it to lower unit's upkeep during the journey.

On an unrelated note...I have a feeling that Marie isn't the only FAQ caster to escape Stanley. Wanda and Jack turn, Marie escapes....and EVERYBODY else croaks? I don't buy it. That'd be 6 casters lost...when they have a portal to retreat through, and the main threat was coming from the airspace. I suspect Mothfoot is out there somewhere, because as I said, I can't see him being useful IN combat, but rather his use is preparing for combat.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3192
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby Lamech » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:56 am

0beron wrote:Well actually none of the casters you listed are ones I would have considered useless in combat. The Florist "shut down a hex" is a no-brainer. However I'm still having trouble seeing how the Moneymancer will be useful. Lookamancer, okay I could perhaps see him bypassing any veils, or knowing where all the enemy units are. And I just remembered we know Signamancy was involved in the Laurel of Napster, so maybe he'd be able to identify ideal targets to focus on. But Money.....? I'm not seeing it haha.

But florist sounded useless until we saw it in combat. Hatamancy sounded useless for combat until we saw it in action. Anyway recall that natural moneymancy can pop units? (Its how natural sides do it.) I suspect that they will be able to turn cash into useful things, and possibly even turn enemies into cash! Right now the only thing we know about signamancy is that it can tell people where they are supposed to be and it decides looks. Which might mean similar effects to foolamancy, or luring enemies. Lookamancy is great in city fighting. "Enemies in the tunnels, enemies about to pop out that door, ect."
Lamech
 
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby 0beron » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:06 pm

Lamech wrote:Right now the only thing we know about signamancy is that it can tell people where they are supposed to be and it decides looks. Which might mean similar effects to foolamancy, or luring enemies.

....I was about to contradict you, and I was looking up the laurel of napster and realized I was wrong in my earlier post...it uses DATE-a-mancy, not Sign :(
Although I would clarify that Signamancy has been described as the "form equals function" idea. Everything in Erfworld looks the way it does because the looks match it's purpose (or in the case of units, their personality as well), and that is Signamancy. Foolamancy covers that up, but doesn't change it.
So, like I was saying, a Signamancer may be able to identify key targets based on their Signamancy. He might notice a Warlord who has a particular phobia or could be a weak target...or he might be able to identify crucial leadership units that could be taken out to cripple the enemy's strategy/morale.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3192
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby Whispri » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:38 pm

0beron wrote:On an unrelated note...I have a feeling that Marie isn't the only FAQ caster to escape Stanley. Wanda and Jack turn, Marie escapes....and EVERYBODY else croaks? I don't buy it. That'd be 6 casters lost...when they have a portal to retreat through, and the main threat was coming from the airspace. I suspect Mothfoot is out there somewhere, because as I said, I can't see him being useful IN combat, but rather his use is preparing for combat.

You're forgetting Wanda and her army of the dead, for it is she who dealt Faq the death blow. She was sending troops inside even before she stormed the Tower, if she ordered some of those troops to take the Portal Chamber...
Whispri
YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby 0beron » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:54 pm

Whispri wrote:You're forgetting Wanda and her army of the dead, for it is she who dealt Faq the death blow. She was sending troops inside even before she stormed the Tower, if she ordered some of those troops to take the Portal Chamber...

True, but she didn't turn and start uncroaking until Stanley had already begun the attack. Which meant that initially, their only threat was from the sky.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3192
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby mmooneybsa » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:19 pm

0beron wrote: However I'm still having trouble seeing how the Moneymancer will be useful. ... But Money.....? I'm not seeing it haha.


Never played an RPG with a "Coin" command? (e.g. Final Fantasy)
I don't talk on forums much, because I'll be a dick ;)
User avatar
mmooneybsa
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Pins + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Pins + Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:21 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby drachefly » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:38 pm

0beron wrote:
Whispri wrote:You're forgetting Wanda and her army of the dead, for it is she who dealt Faq the death blow. She was sending troops inside even before she stormed the Tower, if she ordered some of those troops to take the Portal Chamber...

True, but she didn't turn and start uncroaking until Stanley had already begun the attack. Which meant that initially, their only threat was from the sky.


And the casters could have hit the tower to try to destroy them. It wouldn't have seemed lost until Wanda turned, and then it was too late.
User avatar
drachefly
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 1647
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:36 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby onlyme » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:42 pm

0beron wrote:Yeaaaaaah, cus a Lookamancer, Moneymancer, and Signamancer will be so useful in combat....LOL


Lookamancers we have already seen in action. I think it would rather be the first caster to wish for if I was in that world and could chose one.

Even if a signamancer cannot create warpaint horrifying enough to incapacitate enemy units (which I would rather guess a high level signamancer can), this type of caster should at least give you an imporant type of intel.
Think about situations like "this warlord looks like he would run away if attacked directly by the main force".
Wouldn't someone that knows which of this is true be a big help?
onlyme
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:32 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby 0beron » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:49 pm

onlyme wrote: [Signamancers] should at least give you an imporant type of intel.
Think about situations like "this warlord looks like he would run away if attacked directly by the main force".
Wouldn't someone that knows this be a big help?

Yup, I already hypothesized as much.

As for your comment on Lookamancers, yes we have seen them "in action" as a utility caster being used in the Eyemancer Link for a massive strategic advantage. But we've never seen them directly IN combat, so we can only speculate if they have some "unexpected" ability that's especially useful for combat. But at the very least, they must be able to keep track of the enemy units and provide real-time battlefield info.
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3192
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby wrecan » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:53 pm

0beron wrote:
Lamech wrote:Also when you can bring 8 casters to bear on a target.

Yeaaaaaah, cus a Lookamancer, Moneymancer, and Signamancer will be so useful in combat....LOL

You try fighting when you've got money coming out the wazoo.

ETA: Being able to harvest units into cash would actually be an interesting power for a moneymancer.
wrecan
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 6:41 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby ftl » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:03 pm

Yeah, I bet most of the caster schools are somehow useful in combat. Probably not all, Rob will at some point pull out a 'this school isn't good for combat' line. But what casters can do is really only limited by Rob's imagination. And if I can, on the spot, come up with a few ways in which "moneymancy" can be used in combat, then so can Rob.

It's fun to speculate, though!

As mentioned, popping units is natural moneymancy. Thus, maybe a moneymancer can do stuff like convert between units and schmuckers, either as an attack spell to get rid of enemy units or as a spell for your own army, to generate extra forces exactly where they're needed. Also, making gems is moneymancy. Maybe they can make 'attack gems', gems that do stuff to whoever sees them or gems that explode like bombs or mines or something.

Lookamancy - maybe this can increase the accuracy of archers. Maybe it can let you know exactly where the enemy is weakest so you can inflict massive damage with the fewest casualties. Maybe Lookamancy also covers 'reverse lookamancy' - maybe at close range, you can cast spells to blind the enemy? Not fool them, that's foolamancy, just blind them.
ftl
Erfabet Supporter!
Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 1100
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:15 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby oslecamo2_temp » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:00 pm

0beron wrote:
Whispri wrote:You're forgetting Wanda and her army of the dead, for it is she who dealt Faq the death blow. She was sending troops inside even before she stormed the Tower, if she ordered some of those troops to take the Portal Chamber...

True, but she didn't turn and start uncroaking until Stanley had already begun the attack. Which meant that initially, their only threat was from the sky.


And the casters then were in the tower shooting spells at Stanley's incoming fleet.

It's absurd the casters would try to leg it just because an enemy shows up in the air, in particular when their duty was to defend the king. The routing point is when Wanda turns face, and then it was probably too late.

Not to mention, if they had escaped, they would've probably holded a fair amount of grudge against Wanda, unless they were in with her, in which case it would mean something like half the court of FaQ was conspiring against their king.

On the other hand, we may be getting kinda ahead of ourselves here. FAQ had a lot of casters before geting Wanda. A lot could've happened until the necromancer with backstabbing syndrome calls Stanley. Wanda will fall on FAQ's lap, but it's quite possible there were a good amount of sacrifices along the way.
Formerly oslecamo2, unable to acess old acount.
oslecamo2_temp
 
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:08 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby Saladman » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:39 pm

At the very least, "almost all" casters pop knowing Hoboken, giving them a basic ranged attack. Figure the Lookamancer can ignore range and cover penalties, that's something. Maybe even parlay that into an increased critical chance, though now I'm stretching. Or maybe he does boost archers, as suggested... "Look! Over there!" The Mathamancer, by figuring odds, may be able to optimize engagements, possibly at the stack vs. stack level but otherwise analogous to those Date-a-mancy laurels. War-paint from the Signamancer is a good, and likely, call.

Another field of speculation we haven't hit is that there may be a sprinkling of class spells in among the disciplines. I'm thinking of Cubbins pulling a saw out of his hat in his last call: that's a kind of stage magic, but not traditionally something pulled out of a hat. So the Moneymancer might have a Clevermancy themed spell, the Mathamancer might have a Hocus Pocus themed spell, etc. (I don't actually have any good ideas for those off the top of my head though.)

All that said, I'm pretty okay with the idea not all casters are created equal in combat. Foolamancer, Healomancer, and Shockmancer make a pretty overwhelming force given caster field deployments are rare. If the Moneymancer is just upkeep guy that's sort of enough given what they want. Though...

Parson's Klog wrote:Casters can also spend juice, doing most things casters do: make scrolls, items, golems, uncroak, turn Schmuckers to gems (or vice versa but that doesn't cost juice), upgrade units, etc.


That's in character so it could possibly be misplaced, but I find the idea that (some?) casters can unlock unit upgrades downright fascinating. Being able to do it on the fly in the field is potentially big, though it may also be the kind of thing many Erf sides wouldn't make full use of.
Saladman
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:46 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby Infidel » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:53 am

0beron wrote:Although I would clarify that Signamancy has been described as the "form equals function" idea. Everything in Erfworld looks the way it does because the looks match it's purpose (or in the case of units, their personality as well), and that is Signamancy. Foolamancy covers that up, but doesn't change it.
So, like I was saying, a Signamancer may be able to identify key targets based on their Signamancy. He might notice a Warlord who has a particular phobia or could be a weak target...or he might be able to identify crucial leadership units that could be taken out to cripple the enemy's strategy/morale.


If signamancy is form equals function. Then a signamancer might just be able to change the form, and therefore the function of a unit or item. Temporarily turn a light unit into a heavy. Or maybe use all juice to turn an enemy unit into a sheep.
Who is that beautiful red-headed devil,
Stabs you in the heart so that she can level?
It's Scarlet!
- BC
User avatar
Infidel
I am a Tool!
I am a Tool!
 
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 1:22 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby mortissimus » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:49 am

Well, debating the details of how good every caster is sure is fun, but I think there is something overlooked here. If FAQ was to evacuate preemptively, why take all casters in the first place? Would it not make more sense to leave Orwell, Jack and Marie and a minimal guard with standing orders for the casters to retreat to the Magical Kingdom at first sight of trouble? This way FAQ could keep income and treasury until actually disccovered, and if they get to keep their base until they have established a new one they can order Orwell, Jack and Marie into MK. Once they have a new capital they can bring them straight from MK through the new portal.
mortissimus
 
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:04 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby 0beron » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:21 am

Because that would be a big risk, for several reasons:
  • To be guaranteed of taking the enemy capital, they're going to need every resource they can bring to bear. Leaving ANY infantry behind, and 3 of their casters (all of whom have proven or speculative combat applications that are very powerful) will jeopardize that chance, and nothing would be worse than evacuating, losing, and being stranded in hostile territory.
  • Because they lack a Thinkamancer, the city might fall without warning. The evacuees would suddenly lose that treasury, and have nothing to create a new city with or pay upkeep.
  • Sacking a city yields a huge amount of schmuckers. They may NEED to sack their own cities as they leave and get those schmuckers for the plan to work.
  • Whoever finds them would realize that they didn't find the Ruler, and would thus know the side still exists, presumably nearby. Of course, their cover will be blown when they take down a side, but then only their neighbors would know, not Haffaton which is now 20-turns move away.

Lastly however, let's not forget that Jillian's "take an enemy capital" is probably NOT Banhammer's plan. I believe that Jillian being afield when the capital suddenly falls without warning to her is Marie's plan the whole time. Even if she does not know how the city will fall, or she does and is concealing it, she is planning for Jillian to be away then, and THAT is what is meant by "evacuation".
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3192
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby Saladman » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:36 am

Yeah, that's the other thing: the plan obviously didn't come off the way they think. It'll be interesting though to see whether they actually try it, and perhaps that's how they capture Wanda, or whether it never even gets out of planning.
Saladman
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:46 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby Saladman » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:39 am

Infidel wrote:
If signamancy is form equals function. Then a signamancer might just be able to change the form, and therefore the function of a unit or item. Temporarily turn a light unit into a heavy. Or maybe use all juice to turn an enemy unit into a sheep.


I expect transmutation is Changeamancy, and temporarily extending a Special is Weirdomancy. Signamancy is likely more subtle.
Saladman
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
Print 2 Draw 3 Supporter!
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:46 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 032

Postby 0beron » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:44 am

Saladman wrote:I expect transmutation is Changeamancy, and temporarily extending a Special is Weirdomancy. Signamancy is likely more subtle.

Agreed. In this plan, Brother Labeler would be their intel. I doubt he'd be much use in direct offense, but he'll be crucial in identifying good targets. In fact, up until now I've said that about units....but given Jillian's comment about Signamancers and tidy cities....he might even be able to cripple the defender's advantage by directing the fleet to attack particular BUILDINGS....
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 3192
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 15 guests